Why so many disorders in children?

[HydrogenBond]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

[Turtle]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

...2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

Most simply because as new "discoveries" are made, new questions are raised resulting in more discoveries which raise more questions...

 

I take issue with the cavalier mis-interpretative implication of #2. See:

http://hypography.com/forums/theology-forum/4682-sacred-sayings-their-unraveling.html

Spare the rod and spoil the child.

 

Found in the Septagent. The Bible. The Koran. Holy Scriptures...

Uniformally accepted to mean that one must punish a child or they will never learn.

First, the saying predates any & all of these works & is extant in Homer and/or Aristophenes. Therefore, the saying is repeated, or borrowed as it were.

Second, the saying is ubiquitously mis-interpreted; furthermore all these mis-interpretations stem from the definition or "rod".

Third, the "rod" is not a swithch, or a paddle, or a hand, or any such connotaion of a device for administering punishment. The "rod" is the Geo-Metric line. Period.

Fourth: Spare the rod & spoil the child, means that, if a person in charge of a child spares [withholds] the truth of the line from a child then the child suffers with a mis-representation of the world & their place in it.

Fifth: The truth of the line is the 'straight rod', or 'staff', or the 'needle'.

Sixth: Let those who have i see in their own i, in their own time.

:eplane:

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

[HappytheStripper]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

 

Hi .. Im Ashley .. I work with a group of kids online with minor to severe problems such as those you have listed .. and rather than explain myself .. I urge you to have a look ..

 

I will answer your question once I have given it some thought ..

 

http://www.facetheissue.com/community/index.php?

 

Let me know what you think and should you have any other questions please ask .. thanks

 

Ashley

[Boerseun]

I suspect that any quality a child might have that might just differ slightly from the desired qualities of the Perfect Consumer, would be defined as some seriously debilitating syndrome that needs medication - and quickly.

[Cedars]

Part of it is the idea that these disorders are something that begins to develop before a child becomes an adult and the idea that we can minimize the delay in treatment in adults by recognising this in children and treating it at the begining, rather than long after it becomes cemented behavior that the adult has grown up with. Children have been historically ignored in this area for a few reasons, number one being alot of children who exihibit behaviors that could be diagnoised as HD, ADHD etc do grow out of it, or learn/take jobs that allow them to participate in society without being treated. Family doctors took a "lets wait and see" attitude towards these behaviors (partly due to stigmas with diagnosis).

 

That said, there are other parts you mention that have some role. Over diagnosis can be a problem and I know of some parents who have fought the 'classroom' diagnosis of a fustrated teacher dealing with a very active child. I have one friend who has a child with head problems and their fight hasnt been a denial of a problem it is fighting to get medications changed because they are seeing effects on the child which alarm them.

[IDMclean]

My so called Disorders, are merely orders in my own locality, which work for me but are not nessessarily appreciated by those around me.

 

How they came about is many fold. Ranging from my parents to my life's journey. Question that were asked and answers that were given.

 

For instance I have been labeled with ODD, Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Which to me is merely proper form of the free individual as my mother taught me. My mom, as much of a headache this caused her, taught me and my siblings to question authority. The careful scrutiny of authority has revealed to me time and time again that often so called authority is no wiser, nor no more foolish than I am. That we are on equal terms. Now this works for me, but when Authority seeks to be higher than I and I deny that, Authority gets offended.

 

ADHD. This one makes me laugh. Once again it is a learned thing, and in good form of a intellegent individual. I split my time and focus up amongst a number of things, knowing that anyone task will not likely get done immediately. Good things come to those who wait. This makes me seem very scattered and indesive at times, but really it's just a slightly less linear manner of being which ultimately leads to good things. That I should have my undivide attention on a single thing is questionable, expecially when I am being examined by a psychologist. Few of the profession expect to be examined back, but I say do unto others as...

 

Obsessive Compulsive. Another one that makes me laugh. I call this drive and is simply what happens when I do decide to bring my focus down to a small set of things. Woe be that which gets my full attention, for it will never be the same again.

 

The list goes on and on, and many times It has been suggested, demanded and otherwise implied that I am not a good little consumer, nor a good little sheep. That I don't fit societies' little view of what it means to be a citizen does not concearn me. I am what I am, and that is what matters. Anyone whom would have me change that to fit their view sees me not as equal, nor as a person, but as something like a wax sculpture, to be shaped and manipulated as they please.

 

My mother sees me as person, always has, always will. She raised me to be a functioning individual capable of independent thought and action, whom could play nicely with society so long as society played nicely with me. She didn't teach me obediance, as that is obscene. My mom knows what a slave is, and what a master is. She knows that it is a choice of the individual to be in such a state.

 

Her criteria was that my siblings and I were capable of the three Rs. Reading, 'Righting, and 'rithmatic. That we are capable of individuation from the group. That we are Moral and Compassionate to our fellow beings. That we are Strong and Upstanding, even when others would think our actions wrong. That we are creative, thoughtful and contemplative, aware of ourselves and others.

 

"Children are ment to be children. Don't be any hurry to grow up, cause once you do you can't go back, and no matter what anyone says you are you and that is all you need to be." -My Mom.

 

-Mom was the Tattooed lady, Dad was the Strong man.

KickAssClown

[HydrogenBond]

A few things I forgot to add to the list were the internet, computer games and TV. Years back I enjoyed most computer games, even though they kept me in a constant state of stress and adreniline. I can see how this high energy neuro-chemical and body state may stick in younger children. The world becomes game play with focus stimulus randomly appearing in all directions just like in good computer game play. Many of these kids can focus themselves for hours in this game world of random stimulus.

 

Spare the rod, spoil the child, may also be applicable. Years back in schools when capital punishment was common (ruler to the hands), children who were disruptive would learn to control their impulses because of the risk of punishment. No drugs were required and a ten second treatment a couple a times a year was all that was typically required. Twenty years from now when secondary physical affects in young adults begin to increase, the young adults may have been better off with the hand or butt bruises that heal in a few days.

 

The down side of captial punishment in schools was over diagnosis (beat kids who don't deserve it) and over treatment (over target certain kids). Teachers could not always separate they own psychology from the genuine needs of the students. This is why it is no longer used.

[Boerseun]

Thank God they never applied 'capital' punishment when I was a kid!

 

I'm sure you meant 'corporal' punishment...?

[HydrogenBond]

My mistake, dah.

[Cedars]

Spare the rod, spoil the child, may also be applicable. Years back in schools when capital punishment was common (ruler to the hands), children who were disruptive would learn to control their impulses because of the risk of punishment. No drugs were required and a ten second treatment a couple a times a year was all that was typically required. Twenty years from now when secondary physical affects in young adults begin to increase, the young adults may have been better off with the hand or butt bruises that heal in a few days.

 

The down side of captial punishment in schools was over diagnosis (beat kids who don't deserve it) and over treatment (over target certain kids). Teachers could not always separate they own psychology from the genuine needs of the students. This is why it is no longer used.

 

The other part of this is people could drop out of school at a younger age and go into the work force/work at home. I dont know that beating children resolved the issue as much as the one who struggled with school could simply walk away and begin a different life.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Cedars makes a good point. My grandfather finished high-school and was able to get a decent job. Now, this takes at least a college degree.

 

It used to be that the stakes weren't quite so high for kids. Now, if you're not winning the science fair at six, they've already got you "tracked" for an exciting life of minimum wage jobs.

 

What causes all of these "problems" in kids? It's that we demand so much perfection from our children, that anything less that perfect little consumer / worker bee must be an actual mental illness. Anybody who doesn't fit the mold early and perfectly gets chunked aside. There is nowhere for normal people to go.

 

It's the same reason kids today are "stupider" than they were when I was in school, the young whippersnappers. It's not because they're any dumber, it's because a few of them are much, much smarter. Are kids really that mentally ill? No, but we've pushed and pushed until we do have a few that are able to meet the astronomical standards we've set.

 

And that makes everybody else look bad.

 

TFS

[HydrogenBond]

In America the peak of average scholastic achievement was back in the 50's and 60's. Teaching was based on the basics instead of fads. It was also based on a miltary style of order.The basics are a simpler set that allows for ingenuity and order made things easier for teachers. Things now are too dependant on memorizing fad method and repeating data with less emphasis on ingenuity and application. What also changed was culture went from a more masculine based culture (post war) into a more feminine culture. The result was cool logic being replaced by warm fuzzy emotions. Emotions are not the best way to learn science since it makes everything ambiguous and subject to individual interpretation and fads. Or science becomes liberal arts, with plenty of subjective liberty. Emotional discipline is also subject to projection by parents destroying the orderly logical environment for teaching and reward.

 

If we were using this science forum back in the 50's and 60's we would all be rooted in the same science basics brainstorming the new frontiers. Now there is very little consensus science foundation leading to the frontiers with most of the debate using emotional valance and relative reference. If we look at global warming this is an emotional science topic with many points of view driven by emotional valance. If a scientists needs funding, just cater to the fear. If the environmentalists wants to sway emission policy, just play to the fear. If the data and theory was cold hard fact, we would all come to the same conclusions and could act appropriately. But this takes away the emotional valence which has become the fuel for speculation. The loss is resisted because the emotional buzz is sort of fun and can be used to manipulate common sense.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Regardless of the fact that everyone of import has reached the same conclusion regarding global warming, I think you may be over-mythologizing the 1960s.

 

When my folks went to High School then, the highest math class offered was Pre-calculus. Geometry was a high school course.

 

My brother took Cal II (for college) in high school.

 

I think high school is a much different place now, and its much, much harder.

 

TFS

[nkt]

Zero-goal education in the USA has a lot to answer for. The same as the comprehensive system in the UK.

 

When you reach 12-16, you should already be capable of driving in a nail, and doing minor DIY, the same as you should be able to read and write and count. At this point, having sampled the two major paths for a person with regards to employment, that person should be allowed to make a choice. Either work with the hands, or work with the brain.

 

Sadly, not everyone can be a rocket scientist (Ask North Korea!) and not everyone can be a brain surgeon. In fact, most people cannot. Even if they were, the population of the world would be wiped out quite quickly by a nasty virus on telephones, due to the lack of office cleaners.

 

I started writing a book, but have now given up. It was called "Flooding the foothills", taken from the work of Hans Moravec of Carnegie Mellon University robotics institute in December 1997. Read this passage, and see if you can sork out the problems today?

 

The Great Flood

 

Computers are universal machines, their potential extends uniformly over a boundless expanse of tasks. Human potentials, on the other hand, are strong in areas long important for survival, but weak in things far removed. Imagine a "landscape of human competence," having lowlands with labels like "arithmetic" and "rote memorization", foothills like "theorem proving" and "chess playing," and high mountain peaks labeled "locomotion," "hand-eye coordination" and "social interaction." We all live in the solid mountaintops, but it takes great effort to reach the rest of the terrain, and only a few of us work each patch.

 

Advancing computer performance is like water slowly flooding the landscape. A half century ago it began to drown the lowlands, driving out human calculators and record clerks, but leaving most of us dry. Now the flood has reached the foothills, and our outposts there are contemplating retreat. We feel safe on our peaks, but, at the present rate, those too will be submerged within another half century. I propose (Moravec 1998) that we build Arks as that day nears, and adopt a seafaring life! For now, though, we must rely on our representatives in the lowlands to tell us what water is really like.

 

Our representatives on the foothills of chess and theorem-proving report signs of intelligence. Why didn't we get similar reports decades before, from the lowlands, as computers surpassed humans in arithmetic and rote memorization? Actually, we did, at the time. Computers that calculated like thousands of mathematicians were hailed as "giant brains," and inspired the first generation of AI research. After all, the machines were doing something beyond any animal, that needed human intelligence, concentration and years of training. But it is hard to recapture that magic now. One reason is that computers' demonstrated stupidity in other areas biases our judgment. Another relates to our own ineptitude. We do arithmetic or keep records so painstakingly and externally, that the small mechanical steps in a long calculation are obvious, while the big picture often escapes us. Like Deep Blue's builders, we see the process too much from the inside to appreciate the subtlety that it may have on the outside. But there is a non-obviousness in snowstorms or tornadoes that emerge from the repetitive arithmetic of weather simulations, or in rippling tyrannosaur skin from movie animation calculations. We rarely call it intelligence, but "artificial reality" may be an even more profound concept than artificial intelligence (Moravec 1998).

 

<snip>

 

As the rising flood reaches more populated heights, machines will begin to do well in areas a greater number can appreciate. The visceral sense of a thinking presence in machinery will become increasingly widespread. When the highest peaks are covered, there will be machines than can interact as intelligently as any human on any subject. The presence of minds in machines will then become self-evident.

 

So tell me what use there is for another 10,000 degreed social studies graduates to McDonald's and Burger King?

[InfiniteNow]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

Could be that we are making an improper measurement, that we are not taking into consideration all of the new skills today's youth are required to learn... skills with which their parents and grandparents never had to contend. Basically, it's possible that we're using old and inaccurate methods to measure today's children.

 

Or, maybe we are breeding too closely and mutations have ensued... mutations which have not had the time to show their worth.

 

 

Or, every generation thinks the next is on the path to disorder and chaos, and it's just your turn to make the same observation your ancestry has.

 

 

or...

 

 

 

. :cup: .

 

[IDMclean]

Well, seeing as Psychology is a recent thing in human history.

 

I would venture to guess that perhaps it is simply a matter of sudden collection of a body of data that was not there previously. That we now are more accurately and more often are identifying the various disorders, in a more honest way than previous.

[HappytheStripper]

I asked the kids .. check this out ..

 

http://www.facetheissue.com/community/showthread.php?p=140396#post140396

 

Ashley