Get rid of the space shuttles!

[Aki]

I think NASA should just stop using shuttles to send people up into space. These space shuttles are so hold and obsolete that NASA should just replace them. Not to mention are the safety issues associated with these shuttles.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Queso]

KA BOOM

Show us what you got, America.

[C1ay]

NASA is already making plans to retire some of the shuttles and the rest won't be far behind. Check out Search for a Shuttle Replacement to Begin in 2005 over at Space.com....

[Stargazer]

They're already working on retiring the shuttle. The modular CEV will hopefully be easier and safer, and maybe even cheaper. The space shuttle was an interesting concept but perhaps before its time.

[InfiniteNow]

Time for more research into teleportation... A pipe dream? Perhaps, but it's outside the current box at least. :hihi:

[Jay-qu]

They are going to be a while making a new type of transportation, so in the mean time I think they should continue using only the few newest of the old shuttles, or the ones in best condition. Its not like they will stop going into space because of that, the line of people wanting to be an astronaught is massive..

[Eclogite]

Stop using the shuttles. They were obsolete, antiquated, unsafe and irrelevant before they ever flew. Time has not improved their status or condition. They were the political result of a political indecision by politicians.

 

Stop using the space station. It is a grossly expensive, practically useless, white elephant: the the political result of political indecision by politicians.

 

Shut down the manned side of NASA; give Robert Zubrin 15 billion a year, and we shall be on Mars, permanently, inside fourteen years. That's what I call 20-20 vision.

 

P.S. Don't expect it to be safe. The frontier is a dangerous place.

[TheBigDog]

Our safety expectations on the shuttles are too high. That forces the launch costs to skyrocket. It is sad that there are accidents, but they are complex machines that set off a massive controlled chemical explosion to lift into space and return by absorbing all of that lift energy as heat during a few minutes of baking atmospheric hell. Accidents are going to happen. They can only be so safe. The astronauts no what they are getting into. Lets get back to business while we work on the next generation.

 

Bill

[Stargazer]

It's impossible to do something so out of the ordinary as to sail through space, and to colonise new worlds, and do it completely safely. Even when we have settlements on many worlds, and when people are travelling to the moon and Mars, accidents will happen. I mean, we've been travelling in different kinds of vessels across the seas and oceans for thousands of years, and ships still sink and run into icebergs. We've been travelling in space for less than half a century, going to environments hostile to Earth life. Obviously accidents will happen. We should always try to prevent them from happening, but we shouldn't stop exploring space because it's dangerous. The only way to learn how to make space travel safer is to actually keep going out there, with both unmanned and manned spacecraft.

 

Regarding the space station, in its current form it will be useful for some scientific research. The original plans promised so much more. Too much bureaucracy and too little funding.

 

NASA is getting way too little funding. I mean, they have to cut some very interesting missions to just barely afford the new vision for space exploration. How are they supposed to carry out its job if they're constantly running out of money? Add to that the fear of setbacks. Every setback makes the nay-sayers go "see I told you so, space exploration is a waste of money, blablabla..."

[Eclogite]

Every setback makes the nay-sayers go "see I told you so, space exploration is a waste of money, blablabla..."

Space exploration when planned by an inefficient, beurocratic behemoth; approved by a group of self interested, short sighted politicians; then implemented with restricted resources by inept managers, often is a very large waste of money.

[Pyrotex]

Space exploration when planned by an inefficient, beurocratic behemoth; approved by a group of self interested, short sighted politicians; then implemented with restricted resources by inept managers, often is a very large waste of money.

Yes... [sigh] I am afraid you are right.

 

I have worked on the space program at JSC since 1980. It has been an emotional roller coaster ride. Some of my best work was "thrown away" because a program was cancelled. I have seen successful programs undercut and destroyed by bad management and political ineptitude.

 

The Space Shuttle was and is a beautiful machine. Despite some of the nay-saying, it wasn't obsolete or stupid. It was just terribly, terribly fragile. And that made it way too expensive to operate.

 

You should read the accident report on Columbia. Look at the graphs of RCS firings [Reaction Control System] and wing control settings. The burn-through of her wing took almost two minutes. Right up to the second the wing sheared off, her "obsolete" computers fought like a cornered animal to hold attitude, performing extreme maneuvers totally outside "the envelope" of its design, attitude thrusters firing full blast, rolling and yawing to one side to "protect" the damaged wing. Nobody ever intended or foresaw those maneuvers. It was almost as if the ship were alive. It fought so bravely...

 

The real fault of the Shuttle was the army of thousands of engineers on the ground working full time to keep it flying. Even if the Shuttle were never launched, the cost of that standing army was several $B a year. too much. Wasteful. Let's hope we have learned our lesson.

[chamilton333]

i say new space station, along with new type of space shuttle. current shuttles are becoming unsafe, mainly because of age. the F-14 tomcats are being retired, why not the shuttle along with it?

[Tormod]

i say new space station, along with new type of space shuttle. current shuttles are becoming unsafe, mainly because of age. the F-14 tomcats are being retired, why not the shuttle along with it?

 

Hey - did you *read* the posts above? The shuttle will be retired in about 4 years. It's meaningless to retire it before then as it has a lot of important tasks to do first.

 

And there is no need to shut down the space station. It is being used by Europe and Russia as well as the US. Due to space shuttle delays in will not be completed as was planned, but the US still has agreements to keep as far as the station is concerned.

 

Lots of useful stuff is done on the space station - science which we cannot do here at Earth. Mostly microgravity studies, including studies of how the human body copes with life in space - useful for the upcoming manned lunar bases.

[Racoon]

Lots of useful stuff is done on the space station - science which we cannot do here at Earth. Mostly microgravity studies, including studies of how the human body copes with life in space - useful for the upcoming manned lunar bases.

 

Here's the science Racoon posts that you all missed! :eek_big:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/biology/4772-humans-internal-chemistry-amazing-5.html

 

I said there was more!! :hihi:

 

I hope your Space Thingy went well Tormod :)

[Tormod]

Great post, Racoon.

 

Yeah, the Venus Express orbit insertion was a major event in space history - and it was great fun to hang out with the "big folks" in the European space clique. :eek_big:

[Roadam]

I also dont think that shuttles were obsolete before they flew. It is just that the concept of the shuttle is costly. The rocket that could bring 110 tons into orbit is in this case used to bring up about 90 tons weighting shuttle and some 30 tonns of cargo. Maybe that concept is less costly on the long turn but I dont think NASA got around more cheaply(beurocrats als cost).

As for safety, shuttle is tha same as apollo. it is true that apollo had some evacuation plans in first minutes of launch, but it couldnt do as many things in orbit and land on a runaway.

I think it is a shame that NASA canceled the x-33 project. The concept os SSTO is even more advanced than shuttle and better. What if all space agencies would work on the same vehicle? That would bring everyone closer to space and more cheaply.