Racoon Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 As I was listening to the "Jim Rome" show this morning on the radio, There was a compelling in-studio guest. His name is Micheal Franzsece, and was an ex-Colombo crime family Gambling Boss. ;) The topics, being Gambling on Sports, and the poliferation of Gambling through the internet, especially by teenagers was rather disconcerting!! Now as a public speaker preaching the Ills of gambling, he stated that our youth are getting hooked on Texas Hold-'em and online gambling! After swiping their parents credit cards and setting up accounts, they are losing all kinds of money and getting Hooked on gambling... These Online Gambling places aren't legal, and are found Offshore. These Offshore sites are usually run by the Mob and they also get all your information from when you set up an account! They can use it as Leverage against you, or even to steal your identity. ;) He said its such a huge Epidemic, and so many People including Teenagers, Athletes, and normal average people are getting taken! ;) There was a lot more to the interview, but first I'd like to get your initial reaction to this Social Science Problem... Do you think Gambling has gotten out of hand??Do you know anybody who has a serious problem?Is gambling a vice that has everyone hooked?? including States who have gambling institutions for Budget Funding reasons?? Only Hawaii and Utah Do not have Sports action, Lottery, or Video Poker! ;) What do you think?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Mr. Franzsece also mentioned the Mafia connection to Sports gambling. No one skated on a debt. :evil: It was extremely Compelling. I believe this Topic to be an important social issue.... Its not Just Wayne Gretzky He mentioned a 65 year-old Grandmother who shot herself after embezzeling from the Country Club she worked for, to the tune of $250,000, and plundered their Savings and retirement. We're talking about Kids, Teenagers, Moms, Grandmoms, Workers..More Women than you realize are hooked on Video-poker.. Do you know how much Productivity is lost by workers to On-line Gambling while working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedars Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Do you think Gambling has gotten out of hand??Do you know anybody who has a serious problem?Is gambling a vice that has everyone hooked?? including States who have gambling institutions for Budget Funding reasons?? 1. No2. yes3a. No3b. yes and no. Most people do not develop a problem with gambling. Some people will lose control doing things that make them feel good no matter what the activity. This does not mean all people should be restrained from the activity. People I know who have ruined a portion of their lives with excessive gambling have methods to regain their foothold. Not all of them have chosen to. Some have not had a chance to put this into motion yet. Some have paid all their debts off without filing for bankruptcy and are moving on and sharing their experiences with others in the hope of preventing another from going too far. One in particular (a former classmate) does not want to see gambling outlawed. Her opinion is, it was my problem and I should not prevent others from their personal choices under the assumption that my bad choices will happen to everyone who throws a few dollars in a slot machine. I thought that to be an outstanding opinion and a very responsible assessment of herself. As far as states being hooked on the money from gambling, it is mostly being used for statewide benefits. In Minnesota, the voters approved lottery, the voters overwhelminly approved a certain percentage of those profits to the environment and education. This came up for a vote again, after 10 years of lottery and the people made it an absolute commitment that these monies be devoted to these two causes forever. Much to the dismay of a few other groups eyeing a portion of this pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Gambling is really only a problem when you lose. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedars Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Mr. Franzsece also mentioned the Mafia connection to Sports gambling. No one skated on a debt. ;) He mentioned a 65 year-old Grandmother who shot herself after embezzeling from the Country Club she worked for, to the tune of $250,000, and plundered their Savings and retirement. We're talking about Kids, Teenagers, Moms, Grandmoms, Workers..More Women than you realize are hooked on Video-poker.. Do you know how much Productivity is lost by workers to On-line Gambling while working? What aspect of profiteering hasnt the 'mafia' been connected to in some way? If theres money to be made, some crook is gonna try to get a piece of the action. If your gonna play with the big boys you'd best being willing to follow their rules. Anyone who gets into trouble with the 'mafia' has done it to themselves. Education about the risks inherent in gambling is a far better method of dealing with this minimal problem. Of course offshore gambling operations have a risk of ID theft, draining your accounts, etc. Happens to alot of people without having any connection to online gambling. We have all gotten emails with a "click here to get your prize" in the subject line. People embezzling money from their employers falls under a crime. Most do it for personal gain, whether to fix up/buy a house/car/vacation or to head for vegas/online/indian casinos. Productivity losses to employers are easily resolved by the employer. There are a number of programs out there employers can use to monitor and block web sites from their employees. By far, the greatest loss in productivity as I have seen is in chatting in the office with co-workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Gambling is really only a problem when you lose. ;)Which as odds will have it, Most of the time Glambling: A scourge to the human character........................Infy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The only winner is the house. The rest is just high priced adrenalin. But like most vices, in a free society you cannot prevent people form self destructing, or profiting on someone elses need to self destuct. Anyone want fund my system for paramutual sports betting? House takes 10% off the top! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWright Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Stop the presses!!! Let's do away with the anti-gambling talk before you all force me to get a real job. I earn (YES EARN) my income from gambling. It is now my only means of income. I have my bachelors degree and worked in the professional world, but I make more from playing cards than I did from being employed. So it is not true that only the casinos profit. I also have many online accounts, which in fact fund everything else that I do, so it is not a scam and I have had no hint of a problem with identity theft. Site's like PartyPoker are publically traded on the London Stock Exchange and make so much money that there is no point in going after their users in such a way. It would be much more detrimental to their reputation to do so, than to just keep raking in the profits that they are. As for whether it's a problem, it is for some people. Those people have to either learn to beat the game, or get out. Anyone who is succeeding at it, has lost a significant amount of money in the past, myself included. You pay for your lessons, just as you do for any other education. Then you use those lessons to either profit from it, or get out. Tormod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The only winner is the house. The rest is just high priced adrenalin. Which is why I always try to setup the Texas Hold-Em tournys at my place. ;) That, and when I place other types of bets, I ensure that I am looking at all of the various odds... Gambling really is a broader and more abstract concept. We gamble when we ask a beautiful woman out to dinner. We gamble when we get into the car and merge onto the highway... and on and on and on... What I'm curious about is how the adrenaline response evolved as a result of gambling? What is it about gambling that was important to our survival which makes it so widespread in all of it's various contexts today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedars Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 What I'm curious about is how the adrenaline response evolved as a result of gambling? What is it about gambling that was important to our survival which makes it so widespread in all of it's various contexts today? My ideas on this question: Its the drive to feed self. The hunt. Gathering resources to feed self and family. Money equals food/comforts. Most do not gamble to obtain resources for courting a woman and most I know who head off to casinos, card games, etc do not have meeting potential mates in mind when they set out. If they do meet/pay for a special someone its a side bonus. Most gamble in the hopes of winning money to buy stuff or pay for stuff they already have. There is also the low physical effort allowing more people to participate. All you need to do is sit down and be able to drop money into a slot or lay it on the table. You dont even have to be able to count. Nickel machines, dime machines all the way up to high roller tables. Something for everyone so it can be widespread. The reward is money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Its the drive to feed self. The hunt. Gathering resources to feed self and family. Money equals food/comforts. Indeed. So those who took chances to get food, and were successful in those risks, survived (as did their family and offspring). Good thought. Most do not gamble to obtain resources for courting a woman... Sure we do. We gamble to obtain her reproductive resources, for her to be the genetic vehicle for our offspring. ...and most I know who head off to casinos, card games, etc do not have meeting potential mates in mind when they set out. It's always on the mind, if even on an unconscious level. I've heard many very compelling and well formulated arguments indicating that all motivation stems from the desire to pass on our genes to the next generation. If they do meet/pay for a special someone its a side bonus. Most gamble in the hopes of winning money to buy stuff or pay for stuff they already have. And why do we want this money? So we can survive. So our offspring can survive. So we can attract mates by being seen as able to provide for the family and have access to resources. There is also the low physical effort allowing more people to participate. All you need to do is sit down and be able to drop money into a slot or lay it on the table. You dont even have to be able to count. Nickel machines, dime machines all the way up to high roller tables. Something for everyone so it can be widespread. The reward is money. It's always best to get a quick payoff. Like hunting... much nicer to get 3 large animals in the first hour than to spend 3 days and return with something tiny... My thoughts here are largely based on the work being done in evolutionary psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWright Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 How about gambling to put food on the table, clothes on our backs and to pay bills? Anything less is entertainment or addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedars Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 My thoughts here are largely based on the work being done in evolutionary psychology. While I do agree that sexual motivation exists for many parts of psychology, for gambling and the attraction for so many people, has its base root in the hunt and the gathering of resources for self first, and others are a secondary thought. For example: Many persons whos children are grown and out of the house for many years, go as couples to these establishments. I once saw the casinos around here described as a "sea of Q-tips" as a fustrated adult child tried to find their parents to go home. They do not have to seek sexual gratification outside of the home. It is there for them as desired. Young couples go to the casinos also. I do not imagine the motivation is wow, I will get laid and win a valued resource. The motivation is Wow, I might win a valued resource. They can stay home and get laid. They can do alot of courtship rituals and get laid. The pursuit of sex is not the motivation for their drive and adrenaline rush in the casinos and card games. It is the hunt for a valued resource. The hope of winning money to enhance self. The sexual aspects are there for some, but clearly not all. The motivation for all is obtaining a valued resource, it is the foremost thought in all participants in the gambling hunt, therefore it must be the evolutionary factor that drives so many to particpate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Let's do away with the anti-gambling talk before you all force me to get a real job. I earn (YES EARN) my income from gambling. It is now my only means of income. I have my bachelors degree and worked in the professional world, but I make more from playing cards than I did from being employed. So it is not true that only the casinos profit. I don't think there is anything wrong in making a living from gambling, as long as one is aware of the risks involved and trust the people you play with. It's not too unlike making a living from daytrading, except the timelines may be different and the odds are calculated differently. However, let's not forget that the professional gamblers are after all in a different league than the odd teenager or housewife or husband who spends too much time online, catching a gambling bug and losing all their money. But I am not in favor of closing the gambling sites. I occasionally bet on sports (although I admit I have never played poker or other games for money) and I lose most of the time but never play for much. I do remember winning $500 on a $5 bet a while back...stuff like that is crazy. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWright Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Sex is most certainly no where near the motivation for most persons who gamble. I speak as someone who does so for the majority of the day, every day... and there is certainly no 'immediate' sexual ties in mind. In fact I would wager that most people who are busy gambling would probably prefer to stay put if they were approached for sex. At the same time, most gamblers are less conservative and probably more apt to be a bit more outgoing sexually, but I see no real correlation as far as an interest in gambling having evolved in us for any sexual reasons. For some it is like an amusement park, there is excitement, action, highs and lows. For others it is like a drug, something they're drawn to even if they don't want to, and certainly not relating to sex. The closest it may come to sex it being tied to the 'pleasure centers' of the brain for some individuals, but for reasons unrelated to intimacey. I don't see ties to 'the hunt' per se either, although it may be tied to hunger/cravings in the same way it would be tied to the 'pleasure center'. There is also the sense of redemption factor... those who lose are often angry and want to redeem themselves (ego) as well as get their money back (ignorance), and don't want to admit to themselves that they can be beat (pride). Thus it becomes an emotional tug-o-war. There is also the win factor... most games are structured such that poor players will win a good portion of the time. But they will not win the majority of the time, which is key. But they will cling to those relatively frequent wins as hope (denial) that they can beat the game and become rich. But for any game with house odds, this is impossible for all but those who may hit a hefty jackpot at some point in their lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The pursuit of sex is not the motivation for their drive and adrenaline rush in the casinos and card games. It is the hunt for a valued resource. The hope of winning money to enhance self.Sex is most certainly no where near the motivation for most persons who gamble. I speak as someone who does so for the majority of the day, every day... and there is certainly no 'immediate' sexual ties in mind. In fact I would wager that most people who are busy gambling would probably prefer to stay put if they were approached for sex. Think about our overall evolved mechanisms... I'm not speaking of histories dating back to childhood here, but histories dating back to the Cambrian! Why do we hunt for valuable resources? Why is there a need for resources? I'm not talking motivation like a personal trainer yelling at you, but deeply rooted unconscious tendencies which have been continually reinforced because those who did it survived and passed on their genes to their offspring, and those who didn't died out. There is one point that I left out, and must be acknowledged, that the hunt for food for one's own survival is a key factor, and gambling in the millenial past has paid off in this respect for many. But if you go simply one step further, then you will see that individuals would be more inclined to gamble ... "I bet you I can steal that lion's kill while it sleeps..." if there are potential mates also awaiting the hunted resource... and that mate would be more likely to stay if the hunter could provide resouces to the child. It's tough for me here to go into a long treatise on the complete works of evolutionary psychology, but I think the basics have been outlined here for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWright Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Think about our overall evolved mechanisms... I'm not speaking of histories dating back to childhood here, but histories dating back to the Cambrian! Why do we hunt for valuable resources? Why is there a need for resources? I'm not talking motivation like a personal trainer yelling at you, but deeply rooted unconscious tendencies which have been continually reinforced because those who did it survived and passed on their genes to their offspring, and those who didn't died out. There is one point that I left out, and must be acknowledged, that the hunt for food for one's own survival is a key factor, and gambling in the millenial past has paid off in this respect for many. But if you go simply one step further, then you will see that individuals would be more inclined to gamble ... "I bet you I can steal that lion's kill while it sleeps..." if there are potential mates also awaiting the hunted resource... and that mate would be more likely to stay if the hunter could provide resouces to the child. It's tough for me here to go into a long treatise on the complete works of evolutionary psychology, but I think the basics have been outlined here for you. I must fully disagree with your line of thinking on this one. I would very much say that those who are more likely to gambling in regards to engaging in unecessary high risk situations are the least likely to survive and pass on their offspring. Increased risk equates to increased failure, PERIOD. NO card player who would choose to increase his risk factor will succeed in the game... NONE. Likewise, the idiot who takes the dare to steal the Lion's food can only do so, so many time before he becomes the food. Rather, those who use intuitive reasoning will find ways to limit their risks and in order to gain the same rewards or more. They will be the one who dares the village fool, and then if he doesn't succeed, move in and take the lion's kill after the lion drags the idiot off into the brush. Another example, would be diversifying one's investments in the stock market. It may appear gratifying to pour all of one's resources into the stock that is climbing steadily, but has the greatest risk factor... but that would be extremely foolish. Instead, you would divide your resources and invest in some slowing growing stocks as well, even though they aren't as 'inviting', but because they're more secure to your financial longevity. In all facets, excessive risks can lead to quick gains, but it also leads to the fastest and most likely road to failure. Thus, I do not agree that gambling and excessive risk taking ever benefited humanity or any other species over the long run. Instead, the safer but more sure route will always give the best odds of winning in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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