Gambling: Is It Getting To Be A Problem??

[InfiniteNow]

This has somehow turned into a BIOLOGY/EVOLUTION topic, rather than anything to do with the initial post.

While I do believe the points regarding a motivation stemming evolutionarily, your point is valid and I have begun another thread to discuss these issues.

 

What are the evolved reasons for our motivations and impulses?

 

 

Cheers. :)

[EWright]

Thanks for the interest BD. I don't engage in any 'casino' games because, as I've stated here, they can not be beat over the long run. That is, unless you hit a big jackpot at some point, which is akin to winning the lottery, which I don't partake in either. Poker on the other hand, pits you primarily again other players, not the house.

 

Almost all players win at some point in the short run or they would not be coming back for long. However, most do not take it serious enough to consider the long term implications. They go out for a Friday night and hope to score, and sometimes they do. But most who are not to the point that they are aware of their long term wins/losses, are losing over the long run. Many play low limit games such as $3/6 Hold 'em, and after perhaps averaging themselves over the longer run with other players of similar skill, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, only the house has won.

 

However, players who pay attention to their long term winnings and know such things as their ROI (Return On Investment) relative to the amount that they've wagered (primarily a tournament consideration) then have a very realistic interpretation as to how much they are earning and can expect to earn over the long run.

 

For example, if you play $30 sitngo single table tournaments and have an ROI of 30% and play 12 games a day, you can predict very assuredly that you will earn (30*12*.30*365=) $39,420 over the next year. Now obviously, this is based on playing every single day of the year, but you can adjust accordingly. And when you feel comfortable with your game and move up to say the $50 buy in... you can expect a raise in your rewards (and you didn't even have to ask the boss) proportionate to the amount you've moved up, provided that your ROI remains steady. If it drops, adjust accordingly to predict the returns, but also work on improving your game to get it back up.

 

The bankroll will then build itself and soon you'll be moving up to higher limits. However, since quitting work, much of my winnings must now go toward the same thing a paycheck would go toward, which means the bankroll does'nt move up as fast as I'd like, nor can I take excessive risks by moving up too fast.

 

Another factor that is vitally important is to base your ROI on LONG-TERM results. You cannot go out and play a handful of these tournaments and view the results as a realistic interpretation of expectations. I based my own on about 2000 tournaments before giving up my regular job. Also, althought I play virtually all day every day, no one can sit home playing 12 sitngoes all day every day... you have to mix it up and get out and play live, etc. I travel to local casinos for live games to give myself a break at home and will be in Vegas at the end of next month. There I will play one to two longer multitable tournaments each day in order to work on that game and get a better feel for it (the trip and losses are also a tax write-off). I'm not going to party, to get free drinks, or anything else but work on my game (ok, I'm taking my mom for her birthday too since I have a spare bed and will show her around the town).

 

If you decide to try your hand at it, be prepared to lose a lot of money slowly in the beginning and pay for your lessons like anyone else. The fastest way to learn and avoid losses is to absorb all of the info you can find about the game. Also, get away from the low limit games as soon as you're prepared to move up, so that you can better diminish the amount the house takes relative to your stakes. You will also diminish the amount the house takes if you focus on tournament play.

 

I'd very much be interested in hearing what other's experiences have been with gambling, if anyone here has stories or is willing to share. Obviously most people don't win at it, but it seems to me that those with scientific minds such as many of you here, would stand the best chance at it. Limit Hold 'em, for example, is a very statistical game. People how understand the odds involved and can factor them quickly stand a much better chance at the game. I'd also be interested in any faults anyone sees or improvements for the comment I quoted above that might benefit my game in a scientific sense. Now, if I could just figure out how to get the probability wave to bring the cards I need more often.... :) hmmm quantum poker! :)

[Jay-qu]

I went to the Casino here in Melbourne for the first time on monday night, well actually it was Tuesday morning at about 2am! This was after I had been to a night club and I hadnt been to a casino before so we went to have a look. I found it quite depressing...

I mean its a weeknight and it still had lots of people there all of them just seemed to wasting away at their pokie machines or roulette tables, non of them had a smile on their face and no-one seemed to be having fun.

 

Which leads me to the question of why? Its not like a casino is going to run at a loss.. so obviously sitting and playing for hours is ultimately going to be fruitless. I hear people saying gambling is addictive, what makes it addictive? its not like a drug where it alters the chemical balance in your body and offers some kind of high.. It actually makes you feel worse - unless you win, which none of these people where..

 

why do people do what they do when they know what they know!!?

[EWright]

I went to the Casino here in Melbourne for the first time on monday night, well actually it was Tuesday morning at about 2am! This was after I had been to a night club and I hadnt been to a casino before so we went to have a look. I found it quite depressing...

I mean its a weeknight and it still had lots of people there all of them just seemed to wasting away at their pokie machines or roulette tables, non of them had a smile on their face and no-one seemed to be having fun.

 

Which leads me to the question of why? Its not like a casino is going to run at a loss.. so obviously sitting and playing for hours is ultimately going to be fruitless. I hear people saying gambling is addictive, what makes it addictive? its not like a drug where it alters the chemical balance in your body and offers some kind of high.. It actually makes you feel worse - unless you win, which none of these people where..

 

why do people do what they do when they know what they know!!?

 

Actually, I would say that gambling does offer a high, of sorts, and likely alters some chemical functions of the brain as well. I've never had even a hint of addiction with anything chemical (although I haven't tried any of the 'hard stuff'). However, I definitely felt very strong addictive tendancies toward gambling, well specifically poker, when I started having some success at the game.

 

The people you saw weren't all losing that night, but if they were playing 'casino games' (those with house odds, as opposed to poker) then they were certainly losing over the long run. But they've hand wins along the way as well, asd those wins keep them coming back. The obvious problem is that the losses far outweigh the wins over the not-so-long-run. This is precisely the reason that good poker players profit over the long run... they are able to play in such a way that they become the house, statistically speaking and relative to lesser players.

 

For myself, I did not feel any addictive feelings about the game when I was playing occasionally with the guys. And it didn't take me long to lose a few times at the casino games before I cut them out entirely many years ago. It was when I began to feel a sense that I could actually beat the game of poker that I began to feel 'addicted' at times. However, I don't feel that I can be sure whether to call it an addiction, or rather a very strong belief and challenge that I could beat it.

 

Certainly enough of the reasons were there according to the gamblers annonymous criteria for an addiction. But how does one then differentiate between an addiction and being drawn to something 'controversial' because of a logical belief that it can be beat. Certainly the downfall of many poker players is the belief that they can be better than the next guy, but then failing to advance their skills to the necessary level. I can definitely say I was/am obsessed with the game, but a certain level of obsession often necessary to provide the focus necessarry to achieve challenging goals, no?