Pyrotex Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockytriton Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 I would not hesitate for a minute in loaning my money, my wife or my lawnmower to one of them. but how about your son or daughter??? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkellmd Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 "Hear the wisdom of a thousand sacred books - To do harm to others is evil; to help them is good." The Buddha (Who constantly reminded people that he was not a god.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paultrr Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 "Hear the wisdom of a thousand sacred books - To do harm to others is evil; to help them is good." The Buddha (Who constantly reminded people that he was not a god.) It is also the central belief of the Wiccan religion,part of what traditional is called paganism, a core belief stemming from the 10 commandments and Christ's own words if the Gospels are correct. In essence, it tends to be a core belief in most of the world's religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockytriton Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 yea I think that's why he said the wisdom of 1000 sacred books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 but how about your son or daughter??? B) B) You've got to draw the line somewhere, dammit!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockytriton Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 B) You've got to draw the line somewhere, dammit!!! I'm sure they would teach your children well, have them blindly quoting off passages left and right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 It is also the central belief of the Wiccan religion,part of what traditional is called paganism, a core belief stemming from the 10 commandments and Christ's own words if the Gospels are correct. In essence, it tends to be a core belief in most of the world's religions. I am an ex-fundementalist Christian. My wife is Pagan. Several of our friends are Wiccan. It would be a mistake to assume that Paganism stems from the 10 commandments or from Jesus' teachings. There are two sources of Paganism: Mediterranean, such as Mithraism (the prophet Zarathustra), and the worship of Isis (Egyptian), Bacchus (Roman), Zeus (Greek), etc, all of whom centered around a God-Man who was brutally killed and returned from the dead to share spiritual enlightenment; and North European, such as the religions of the Irish, Scots, Celts, Vikings, Saxons, etc, which centered around the cyles of the Earth (solstices, equinoxes, etc). As far as can be determined, both types of Paganism pre-date both Jesus and even Moses in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 I'm sure they would teach your children well, have them blindly quoting off passages left and right! You notice I wouldn't trust 'em with my dog, either. Ain't nuthin worse or more useless than a good ol' hunting dog trained to fetch the Good Book and heal leprosy. B) BTW, what is "rep power" that appears between our UserIDs and our Icons? ??? ?? ????????????? ?? ? rockytriton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockytriton Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Yea, I had some Jahovah's Witnesses get ahold of my coon hound, instead of chasing racoons, he would try to convert them! Rep power has something to do with how many points you increase or decrease someone's reputation when you do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Having read the entire Bible thoroughly, I can say with total conviction that "freedom" and "equality" are NOT biblical ideology. In fact, they are not mentioned at all. There are not even examples of these concepts discussed or put in practice. You'll have to start slinging verses at me if you want me to accept your notion. P.S. Thank you very much.Excuse me guys, for dodging a couple mudholes... Freedom and equality are hardly seperable ideologies, but I will attempt it. Each of these can probably be taken to support either. Political freedom:“Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah; and they said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto Jehovah. And Jehovah said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not be king over them.” — 1 Samuel 8:4-7 asv“And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received the half-shekel came to Peter, and said, Doth not your teacher pay the half-shekel? He saith, Yea. And when he came into the house, Jesus spake first to him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? the kings of the earth, from whom do they receive toll or tribute? from their sons, or from strangers? And when he said, From strangers, Jesus said unto him, Therefore the sons are free.” — Matthew 17:24-26 asv“Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered unto him, We are Abraham's seed, and have never yet been in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin. And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever. If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” — John 8:31-36 asvPersonal equality:“For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according as a man hath, not according as he hath not. For I say not this that others may be eased and ye distressed; but by equality: your abundance being a supply at this present time for their want, that their abundance also may become a supply for your want; that there may be equality: as it is written, He that gathered much had nothing over; and he that gathered little had no lack.” — 2 Corinthians 8:12-15 asv“Woe unto you Pharisees! for ye love the chief seats in the synagogues, and the salutations in the marketplaces. Woe unto you! for ye are as the tombs which appear not, and the men that walk over them know it not. And one of the lawyers answering saith unto him, Teacher, in saying this thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto you lawyers also! for ye load men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.” — Luke 11:43-46 asv“Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people; but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am Jehovah.” — Leviticus 19:18 asvPyro, I agree with most of your criticisms of contemporary Christian beliefs and practices. I think the 'one-mouth-fifty-ears' learning program is totally anti-productive. *cough*formal education*cough* People learn to follow blindly that way, rather than learning to think for themselves. Denominations are just predetermined interpretations keeping people from learning new stuff. With that mentality, why go to church at all? For this reason I'm adamantly anti-denom, molding my beliefs on a subject-by-subject basis rather than the 'pre-packaged' option. The reasons I have for this personal philosophy are a direct result of numerous teachings that are inept of biblical or rational support. I admit the bible does not always seem rational. But having said that, it is also plausible to say that just because the bible doesn't appear rational doesn't mean it's irrational. And Pyro, if you spent your time trying to clear up the confusion rather than adding to it, I believe you could make sense of scripture, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Freedom and equality are hardly separable ideologies, but I will attempt it....Denominations are just predetermined interpretations keeping people from learning new stuff. With that mentality, why go to church at all? For this reason I'm adamantly anti-denom... I admit the bible does not always seem rational. But having said that, it is also plausible to say that just because the bible doesn't appear rational doesn't mean it's irrational. And Pyro, if you spent your time trying to clear up the confusion rather than adding to it, I believe you could make sense of scripture, too. Harrumph!!I did try to clear up the confusion. Short but true story follows. In 1973 I was in grad school at Mississippi State University. I attended the Church of Christ in Starkville. The congregation was in a turmoil over whether or not blacks should be invited to worship. It got ugly, with fistfights in the hallway and jeers during Sunday morning sermons. They discorporated and put the church building up for sale. It was the beginning of summer and my class load was light. So, since I had started training for the ministry any way, I decided to read the entire Bible and take notes. I would solve the problems that had plagued that church. I had an IQ of 180 and total confidence. At eight to ten hours a day, I could read the OT/NT straight through in about one week. I read it five times in six weeks. And then I cried. At that moment, I probably "knew" the Bible better than any preacher or teacher I had ever met. Before or since. I saw the whole thing inside and out and from every side. And I cried. I saw all the illogic and contradictions and knew with a certainty that I could not put enough bandaids on that book to ever have any trust in it again. They don't make that many bandaids. I wiped my eyes and my nose and cradled my broken heart as best I could. It would take years for me to heal. The best way to become an atheist is to read the Bible.” ---Bertrand Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 ...Denominations are just predetermined interpretations keeping people from learning new stuff. With that mentality, why go to church at all? For this reason I'm adamantly anti-denom... I admit the bible does not always seem rational. But having said that, it is also plausible to say that just because the bible doesn't appear rational doesn't mean it's irrational. And Pyro, if you spent your time trying to clear up the confusion rather than adding to it, I believe you could make sense of scripture, too. Harrumph!!I did try to clear up the confusion. Short but true story follows. In 1973 I was in grad school at Mississippi State University. I attended the Church of Christ in Starkville. The congregation was in a turmoil over whether or not blacks should be invited to worship. It got ugly, with fistfights in the hallway and jeers during Sunday morning sermons. They discorporated and put the church building up for sale. It was the beginning of summer and my class load was light. So, since I had started training for the ministry any way, I decided to read the entire Bible and take notes. At eight to ten hours a day, I could read the OT/NT straight through in about one week. I read it five times in six weeks. And then I cried. At that moment, I probably "knew" the Bible better than any preacher or teacher I had ever met. Before or since. I saw the whole thing inside and out and from every side. And I cried. I saw all the illogic and contradictions and knew with a certainty that I could not put enough bandaids on that book to ever have any trust in it again. They don't make that many bandaids. I wiped my eyes and my nose and cradled my broken heart as best I could. It would take years for me to heal.B) B) B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 just because someone reads the bible through time after time, doesn't mean they know anything anout it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Freedom and equality are hardly separable ideologies, but I will attempt it. “Then all the elders of Israel ...“And when they were come to ...“Jesus therefore said to those Jews ...“For if the readiness is there, it is ...“Woe unto you Pharisees! for ye love ...“Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor ... There is a kind of logic which I call "pulpit logic". It is a non-rigorous way of reasoning that says that if two sentences use the same word, they must be talking about the same thing. Or thereabouts. More or less. Your quotes above all use the word 'free'. But READ them. They are not discussing modern political freedom or modern equality concepts. To the Hebrews, 'free' was just the opposite of being someone's slave. That is all. What I see you doing is using pulpit logic. I repeat: no where in the OT or NT is there any cogent discussion of modern political freedom, equality, or other modern sociological concepts we accept so naturally. What appears as 'free' in the OT is a translation of a translation into the nearest English word that 15th Century Europeans could manage. And yes, freedom and equality are separable concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 just because someone reads the bible through time after time, doesn't mean they know anything anout it. Goku, speak for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 There is a kind of logic which I call "pulpit logic". It is a non-rigorous way of reasoning that says that if two sentences use the same word, they must be talking about the same thing. Or thereabouts. More or less. Your quotes above all use the word 'free'. But READ them. They are not discussing modern political freedom or modern equality concepts. To the Hebrews, 'free' was just the opposite of being someone's slave. That is all. What I see you doing is using pulpit logic. I repeat: no where in the OT or NT is there any cogent discussion of modern political freedom, equality, or other modern sociological concepts we accept so naturally. What appears as 'free' in the OT is a translation of a translation into the nearest English word that 15th Century Europeans could manage. And yes, freedom and equality are separable concepts.so B) this means what? that things were different in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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