Religious Nuts

[CraigD]

… Anyway, to think that a baptist is a liberal is to think that hitler was a humanitarian. :)

(US civil rights leader) Martin Luther King Jr. was an ordained Baptist Minister. (Former US President) Jimmy Carter was a Baptist until 10/19/2000, when he announced that he "can no longer be associated" with the SBC, which he felt had adopted “an increasingly rigid SBC creed”, and began supporting more moderate conventions of Baptists.

 

Just because some Baptists – or Christians of any sort – have adopted a vocal, right-wing political stance, doesn’t mean that all, or even most of them have.

 

This optimistic opinion aside, I believe we are witnessing an actual increase of superstition, not only among people who self-identify as religious, but in nearly all segments of society, particularly in the US. Church goers just have a more ready source of material to support and define their superstition. I believe that this increase is a direct consequence of a decrease in quality of public and private education in both secular and religious subjects.

 

I fear that my children and grandchildren will enjoy less freedom than I, a saddening thought ;)

[cwes99_03]

Can we take this latest tangent into a new thread in the THEOLOGY section, please?

 

Thanks for staying on topic, guys...

Irish

Thank you very much Irish. I'm trying to keep myself in this thread, but I'm very busy this week.

if anyone saw this show, she was a good example of a religious nut:

You know I thought the same thing, but then I don't know her beliefs and don't know what she was reacting to particularly. I didn't see the whole show just a small part of it, and she did seem to have a serious flare for the dramatic. But then, she may not be a nut, compared to others in her church.

 

Questions for Pyrotex. Were the problems you saw in the Bible due to hypocrisy in teachings you were brought up to believe, or direct contradictions in the words of the Bible itself? What is your experience with Olde English, could this have been a problem? Have you ever read different translations of the Bible to get a better understanding of the words as they were written? Have you ever sought an explanation from someone else who also might have studied these words to test them out as to their understanding, to see if you yourself might have made some errors in judgement? Do you lean solely on your own understanding of the Bible?

 

Additionally, I'm not sure what you mean by the Church of Christ. Do you mean Mormon? I did a Google search and couldn't exactly pinpoint one church of christ and their teachings.

 

I am not quite sure that I see the problem with this. If you were married, would you be jealous if your wife slept with another man? I think that would only be natural. To some extent I think that love and jealousy come together. But i haven't really thought this through too much yet.

First off, welcome, vending. You are on the right track with that line of thinking. To further it, is it not reasonable (or does this make me a nut) to believe that God has a specific way in which he wants to be worshipped, and that if anyone worshipped any other way then they would not be worshipping him, but someone who doesn't want people to worship him the way he should be worshipped? Was that a long enough sentence? And if you agree to that line of thinking, who are you really worshipping if you don't worship him the way he wants to be worshipped?

 

Ok, the idea that the Bible is full of contradictions aside, (maybe another thread yes?) would the Bible be the foremost source of learning what God requires of his subjects/servants/slaves? (look up the biblical meaning of slave here)

 

Ok, I think I've caught up here. Irish, thanks for helping out with the thread and putting in your two cents too.

[IrishEyes]

Irish, thanks for helping out with the thread and putting in your two cents too.

Hey, that's what I'm here for, remember?

That's why I get that little "administrator" thingy under my name...

and that's why I get paid the big bucks...

(yeah, right!!):)

[Southtown]

They knew what happened when you mix religion and politics--Bloodshed. They understood that there is no room for "compromise" in dogmatic religion; there is no room for "dogma" in constitutional democracy.

They understood there was no room for anything in a totalitarian dictatorship, hence the advent of democracy. Freedom and equality just happen to be biblical ideology.

 

There is a move afoot to rewrite American history to have our founding fathers all be born-again christians who intended this to be a Biblical nation. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

There is a move afoot to reinterpret the Constitution for the purpose of determining all forms of morality as oppression. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

P.S. I like your name.

[Southtown]

IMO, nuts of any kind just don't realize that it's utterly impossible to force anyone to believe, think, say, or do anything at all.

[Celeste]

Additionally, I'm not sure what you mean by the Church of Christ. Do you mean Mormon?

 

Just for future reference:

The Church of Christ differs greatly from that of the Mormon, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

 

The Church of Christ strives to be a church that is Christ-centered, people-focused, and Bible-based. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mormons, bases its beliefs and teachings on the alleged prophet Joseph Smith and his supposed revelations from the Angel Moroni who revealed to Joseph the existence of ancient gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. Allegedly, he was first visited by the "Father and the Son" in the "Sacred Grove" in upstate New York where he was forordained by God to restore His work from all previous dispensations in 1820 In 1823, the Plates of Moroni (Book of Mormon) were revealed and were translated and completed in 1830.

In my experience as an ex-member (I live in Utah), Mormons actually base very little of their teachings on the Bible itself. Rather, they reference it in an attempt to help prove that their Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price are the restored gospels of Jesus Christ and thusly, are the truthful and accurate teachings and word of God and Jesus.

In opening testimonials at the Mormon church, the members almost always start with, "I know the Book of Mormon is true".

Little is said about the Bible and most importantly, they seem to forget that proverbal biblical warning :) ; If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life. Rev 22:18,19

[rockytriton]

You know I thought the same thing, but then I don't know her beliefs and don't know what she was reacting to particularly. I didn't see the whole show just a small part of it, and she did seem to have a serious flare for the dramatic. But then, she may not be a nut, compared to others in her church.

 

She was screaming and calling these people satanists because they practiced astrology. And their friend from church asked if the lady believed in God and she said yes, she said, "well, do you really believe in God or do you believe in a "higher power"", in a very condecending tone. I just don't see why a person like her would do a show like that, they must know that they will put her with someone who is her opposite.

[Pyrotex]

Oh, is that the mormon thing? ... Anyway, to think that a baptist is a liberal is to think that hitler was a humanitarian. B)

 

[sigh]

 

No, not Mormon at all. The Church of Christ is very common in the South, is congregational (no affiliations or organization above the congregation level), is very literalist and fundementalist.

Baptists permit voting on church issues ("do we need a new roof?"), eating "meals" in the church, having other social functions in the church building, and allow women a certain degree of power over lesser church functions -- all of which the CoC considers a "liberal" interpretation of the Bible, and therefore "sinful".

 

Listen folks, I dropped into this forum with reservations. If I find myself answering nothing but rhetorical tricks, wordplay, meaningless paradoxes and distractive red herring questions -- like this one -- then I may not have time to play here any more. No offense intended.

[Pyrotex]

superstition[/i], not only among people who self-identify as religious, but in nearly all segments of society...in the US. ...I believe that this increase is a direct consequence of a decrease in quality of public and private education in both secular and religious subjects. I fear that my children and grandchildren will enjoy less freedom than I, a saddening thought B)

 

I second that! Amen, brothers and sisters, amen! God, protect us from your followers! And from the semi-literate who believe that mere believing makes it truth.

[Pyrotex]

They understood there was no room for anything in a totalitarian dictatorship, hence the advent of democracy. Freedom and equality just happen to be biblical ideology.

P.S. I like your name.

 

Having read the entire Bible thoroughly, I can say with total conviction that "freedom" and "equality" are NOT biblical ideology. In fact, they are not mentioned at all. There are not even examples of these concepts discussed or put in practice. You'll have to start slinging verses at me if you want me to accept your notion.

 

P.S. Thank you very much.

[rockytriton]

Listen folks, I dropped into this forum with reservations. If I find myself answering nothing but rhetorical tricks, wordplay, meaningless paradoxes and distractive red herring questions -- like this one -- then I may not have time to play here any more. No offense intended.

 

Pyro, sorry didn't mean to ask if you were a mormon or distract you from anything, I just didn't know, and when I don't know something, I tend to ask questions about them, whether they are important or not.

[cwes99_03]

She was screaming and calling these people satanists because they practiced astrology. And their friend from church asked if the lady believed in God and she said yes, she said, "well, do you really believe in God or do you believe in a "higher power"", in a very condecending tone. I just don't see why a person like her would do a show like that, they must know that they will put her with someone who is her opposite.

 

Interesting point here, astrology is described by the Bible as being spiritistic. Any form of worship other than that directly described by the Bible is not worship of God but false worship (I'll cite scripture if asked but you could easily find it for yourself). So besides identifying astrology and other spiritistic practices as practices God hates, the Bible points towards all other forms of devotion as to devotion toward the one that opposes God. (sort of the old enemy of my enemy is my friend, but more like the enemy of me is a friend of my enemy.)

 

Thanks for clearing up the church of god/mormon thing. Further questions. Is the Church of God a recognized religion, or is it simply a non-denominational church that doesn't identify itself with any set of teachings that are taught in all Church of God congregations? Maybe I can rephrase that. If I went into one Church of God in Birmingham, would they teach the exact same things as say a Church of God in Atlanta?

 

Is it nutty to say that each different religion, all claiming to worship the same God, could each teach different doctrine, and yet all be right?

[rockytriton]

Interesting point here, astrology is described by the Bible as being spiritistic. Any form of worship other than that directly described by the Bible is not worship of God but false worship (I'll cite scripture if asked but you could easily find it for yourself). So besides identifying astrology and other spiritistic practices as practices God hates, the Bible points towards all other forms of devotion as to devotion toward the one that opposes God. (sort of the old enemy of my enemy is my friend, but more like the enemy of me is a friend of my enemy.)

 

ok, but calling them evil satan worshipers because they practice astrology is pretty nutty if you ask me. Also, what I thought was pretty funny was the fact that she said "get the F#$%# out of my house, in Jesus name I pray", heh, I don't think that Jesus would ever want someone using his name to say "get the F outa my house".

 

Is it nutty to say that each different religion, all claiming to worship the same God, could each teach different doctrine, and yet all be right?

 

It probably is a little nutty, but I guess that it depends on what you believe. If you believe that the important thing is to be a good person and good to others, well, most of these religions teach this, so they would all be right. If you think the important thing is to dunk your head in water, or each some Jesus potato chips, or any other specific ritual, then I guess only one can be right or all are wrong.

[cwes99_03]

Having read the entire Bible thoroughly, I can say with total conviction that "freedom" and "equality" are NOT biblical ideology. In fact, they are not mentioned at all. There are not even examples of these concepts discussed or put in practice. You'll have to start slinging verses at me if you want me to accept your notion.

 

P.S. Thank you very much.

 

Oh yah, this one too.

 

What did the Hebrew slaves in Egypt want? What did the Jewish exiles in Babylon want?

 

While I know the point you are making is that God approved the destruction of many tribes in the promised land (read Exodus to say to 2 Chronicles), you will have to note that these people were doing practices that God hates. Question for your studies? Did you come across the idea that God created everything and that as it's creator he knows what is bad and what is good? That he actually didn't destroy Ninevah when he sent Jonah to be a doomsayer, because they repented and changed their ways?

 

Edit: Maybe we can move this to a different thread, or a private message, as it is sort of off topic. But that is your call pyro, since it also has to sort of deal with your feelings that religious people like that are nutty.

 

I do also agree with what was said earlier on this topic that the Bible says that we should not be involved in the political affairs of this world, but I know there are others here who disagree with that statement. This too could be a thread in the theology forum that we are beginning to love (or hate for some of you).

[Pyrotex]

Pyro, sorry didn't mean to ask if you were a mormon or distract you from anything, I just didn't know, and when I don't know something, I tend to ask questions about them, whether they are important or not.

 

Ahhh, the fault is mine. I was getting a bit pressed for time, and I was having other reasons for being a bit short-tempered. Also, I really, REALLY shoulda asked if this was a forum ABOUT Religious Nuts, or a forum FOR Religious Nuts, before I started making assumptions.

[Pyrotex]

Oh yah, this one too.

What did the Hebrew slaves in Egypt want? What did the Jewish exiles in Babylon want?... While I know the point you are making ...you will have to note that these people were doing practices that God hates.

 

Howdy,

if'n you don't mind, I will address just these points.

<What did the Hebrews want?> Well, that's a good question. Really stellar, no kidding, and my kerchief is off to you for asking it.

 

The problem is (as I see it) that you cannot answer that question as if it was YOU (or someone else from current time) who was a "Hebrew" under those ancient conditions, as YOU (today) understand them to have been, and tell me what it was that YOU would have wanted had YOU been there.

 

The trouble with Religious Nuts is [okay, okay, one of many troubles] they cannot think this way; they cannot appreciate that "what you want" is something we do like a choice -- we are choosing what we want from a Virtual Menu of KNOWN menu items. I know what "Freedom" is and I want that. Actually, I know what "Freedom" is in SEVERAL contexts, and I want all of them. But I am blessed with an intellect the size of a large mountain and a formidible education to boot.

 

Let me ask YOU a question. When those ancient Bronze Age Hebrew slaves looked at their cultural Virtual Menu, did "Political Freedom" or "Freedom of Speech" or "Women's Rights" appear on there for them to choose from? In other words, did the concept of "Freedom" (in any context) exist for them to want?

 

And <note that these people were doing practices that God hates>.

So? The Hebrews eventually did every practice that God (purportedly) hated as well, including mass murder, disemboweling innocent women and children, breaking promises, betraying trusts, impregnating their daughters (incest), slavery, you name it. It was a barbaric late Bronze Age culture after all. They only knew (and did) what they understood. Does any of this JUSTIFY doing more of the same to somebody else?

[Pyrotex]

...If I went into one Church of God in Birmingham, would they teach the exact same things as say a Church of God in Atlanta? Is it nutty to say that each different religion, all claiming to worship the same God, could each teach different doctrine, and yet all be right?

 

The Church of God and Church of Christ are both recognized "denominations" however [chuckle] the Church of Christ refuses to admit they are a "denomination" because that would (to their minds) validate other churches. They are <<THE>> one and only Church of Christ, period!!!

 

Though both sects named above are "congregational" having no higher authority above elders and ministers than scripture, they are fairly consistent in their respective teachings. Some churches are more "conservative" (obedient to every teaching no matter how difficult) and some are more "liberal" (loving and tolerant as Jesus showed his own self to be).

 

<Is it nutty to say that ...> I am afraid you have asked the wrong person. I believe it is nutty to say almost anything if it is an interpretation of what somebody thinks scripture really MEANS or what deitie(s) really WANT. B)