Religious Nuts

[cwes99_03]

And <note that these people were doing practices that God hates>.

So? The Hebrews eventually did every practice that God (purportedly) hated as well, including mass murder, disemboweling innocent women and children, breaking promises, betraying trusts, impregnating their daughters (incest), slavery, you name it. It was a barbaric late Bronze Age culture after all. They only knew (and did) what they understood. Does any of this JUSTIFY doing more of the same to somebody else?

 

Yes, and for this God brought the Babylonians and later the Romans to destroy them, and eventually gave up and created a new covenant. Jesus called them a stiff necked people. He also called their religious leaders offspring of vipers for doing things their way instead of the way that God had shown them to do things. Why didn't he do this the very first time they stepped out of line? As you pointed out, he realized they were imperfect, just as he realizes we are imperfect today (again you have to excuse me for stating this as fact. I realize it seems as fact to me. Through my studies of the Bible I have come to believe these things, and you have pointed out that you have not.) However, how many times must the most powerful, perfect being forgive his chosen people? That would be for his perfectly just ways to determine. He did give them warning, and ample opportunity to stop doing these things, but every time he did, they would go back to doing what was wrong. He punished those who came out of Egypt by making them stay in the wilderness until the last one of that generation had died. He punished them again later by letting Nebuchadnezzar capture and destroy Jerusalem, but again he told them only for a time. He told the people that the Romans would come and then withdraw and that would be the sign for them to get out of Jerusalem or die when the armies came back. And come back they did, and some survived by leaving Jerusalem. Now some religious people are proclaiming that we again are in the last days, that these times have been foretold, and that if people do not heed the warning of the Bible they too may be destroyed. What about even back when Noah built the ark, were they not too warned by Noah that a flood was coming? They took no note.

 

I believe that you read the Bible and found it hard to believe that such a loving God could do all these things. Destroy so many people. Cause such desolation. But, may I ask, what has man done? Caused even worse. Destroyed even more, and never with absolutely just reasons (my beliefs here) on his side. Yet God has brought ruin to some of these nations, groups of people, and has promised to do so again, for a finality, by setting up a heavenly kingdom to rule over the earth.

 

Do my reasonings make me sound like a religious nut to you?

[Pyrotex]

Yes, and for this God brought the Babylonians and later the Romans to destroy them, and eventually gave up and created a new covenant. ... Do my reasonings make me sound like a religious nut to you?

 

Do you want a really honest answer? B)

 

Because you haven't given me enough evidence to judge you on. You may be just one of those run-of-the-mill devout BELIEVERS, who are totally committed to BELIEVING. As far as "your reasonings" go, I have no evidence that they are YOUR reasonings. I heard the same reasonings 46 years ago from (probably) a different church and even at the tender age of 12 I realized that I was listening to 5% scripture, 5% reasoning, 30% traditional interpretation, 50% wishful thinking and 10% make-believe.

 

And yet I worked up a powerful sweat trying to force myself into being one of those BELIEVERS. I just couldn't do it. The rational synapses just wouldn't go away.

[rockytriton]

That's the unfortunate thing about religious nuts, they tend to turn intelligent minded people away by insisting on strange things and dwelling on tiny details that make no sense. They tend to have the attitude that if they can't brainwash you into believe absolutely everything that they believe, then you are just a satan worshiper and that God hates you. I'm not calling anyone a religious nut here, it just sounds like Pyro's old "Church of Christ" is full of them.

[cwes99_03]

Do you want a really honest answer? B)

 

Because you haven't given me enough evidence to judge you on. You may be just one of those run-of-the-mill devout BELIEVERS, who are totally committed to BELIEVING. As far as "your reasonings" go, I have no evidence that they are YOUR reasonings. I heard the same reasonings 46 years ago from (probably) a different church and even at the tender age of 12 I realized that I was listening to 5% scripture, 5% reasoning, 30% traditional interpretation, 50% wishful thinking and 10% make-believe.

 

And yet I worked up a powerful sweat trying to force myself into being one of those BELIEVERS. I just couldn't do it. The rational synapses just wouldn't go away.

 

So I take this means that you don't think I've provided reasons for my belief. Reasonable reasons? From my experience, most "christian" churches are about 80% tradition, 10% coersion, 5% half truths, and 5% out and out lies (or rather anti-scriptural teachings). Oh and let's not forget 70% money grubbing.

 

However, that's not the reason they have such large congregations. No that's because there are so many people who want to be told that they can do anything, and make up their own minds on all these things, and things will be fine.

[BEAKER]

Pretty much all religion founded beliefs can be debunked with one simple argument. If a god was to ever present itself, we could simply ask weather or not it was an alien instead and there was some other god. In which case, any claim it made could be a lie. In which case the idea of a book like the bible is impossible because even if the people who wrote it had contact with something resembling a god, they couldn't know that it was actually a god.

Personally, I think think is a rather weak attempt at weilding the two edged sword of rational thought. Sounds more like deep rooted supressed subconscious dissappointment and bitterness toward some previously respected religious individual to me.

 

But you bring up an interesting point.

 

How would they know it was a god? ...Hummm.

 

For the answer to this question I refer you to the answer given in regards to: "How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop...?":shrug:

[BEAKER]

Beaker, I only ask what you base your beliefs on. Why don't you think God cares about the semantics? Have you studied the Bible from front to back and not found any reason to believe that God wants to be worshipped in a particular way? Did you not find any scripture that says that he is a jealous God, demanding exclusive devotion? Or are you the type of person that doesn't necessarily believe the Bible is inerrant as Irish put it? Not getting defensive here, just wondering what you think?

Cheers

Cwes

This comes from the "what do you beleve thread".

Cheers back to ya.B)

 

What do you believe Q's

 

 

1) What do you believe about the origins of life?

 

I believe that God created all that exists. That He created every thing that creeps on the Earth, and that He formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into is nostrils the breath of life and that man became a living soul.

 

Why? Because I believe there really are only two choices; we were created – or we evolved.

 

I believe that evolution is man’s modern day attempt to escape from the judgment of God. In spite of all the magnificent scientific discoveries over the last couple hundred years, and in spite of all the accurate fragments of knowledge that all the evolutionists want you to believe equate to a picture of evolution that is currently at work in our universe; I believe it is nothing but misrepresented data by those who reject God, encouraging others to do the same.

 

 

2) What do you believe about the existence of God?

I believe in the God of the Hebrews – the God of Israel (Yahweh; Elohim; El Shaddai; etc.) That He came to Earth to live among us, born of the virgin Mary as the person of Jesus Christ, both God and man, to live and to die for the sins of mankind, and then to rise from the dead.

 

Why? Because I believe that God loves the men and women He created so much that He was willing to struggle through the very same turbulent existence that we are bound to, in order to teach us all the answer to the next question.

 

 

3) Is there more than one way to God?

 

No.

 

Why or why not? Because there is only One God, and we play by His rules not ours. I believe that God is totally aware of each and every individual, and that no one will be excluded from His love simply because they were born into a country or household that doesn’t worship the God of the Bible; but in the end, no matter what you believe, that there is still only one way to God and eventually, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords to the glory of God the Father; and on that day everyone will see the other side of this dark tapestry we have woven for ourselves, and understand the mysteries of salvation; some to eternal glory, some to eternal shame.

 

4) How do you determine right and wrong?

I believe that aside from the commandments given to Moses; God has placed an understanding of right and wrong that is built into the “heart” of every man, and that all the laws; (the ten commandments, and others within the Word of God – the Bible); are summed up in the phrase: “you shall love your neighbor as yourself”.

 

Why? Because nobody loves anybody more than themselves.

 

 

5) How do you determine truth? I believe it is not so much a matter of determining truth as it is accepting, or rejecting it.

 

Why? Because I’ve accepted it.

 

 

6) What happens when you die? You stand before God to receive the wages of your work, and receive your eternal reward.

 

Why? Because God is just and fair and righteous.

 

 

7) What is a person's relationship to his/her fellow human being? To be the kind of friend that you would want someone to be to you; compassionate and caring, understanding and encouraging; - to serve one another.

 

How should they interact/treat one another? The same way that you would like to be treated.

 

Why? Because God is Love. Loving and accepting another person doesn’t mean you have to embrace what they believe.

 

8) Is war ever good? No.

 

Is it sometimes necessary? Yes

 

Why? Because we live in a sinful world and always will until God creates a new Heaven & Earth where the former things no longer even come to mind. In the meantime, it may be necessary to defend your family, friends, and country; - yourself, in order to secure/insure the values you believe are worth fighting for, against those would take them away.

 

 

9) What is your stance on abortion? It’s a legalized holocaust; murder; homicide; genocide.

 

Why? It’s a no-brainer; if you have to ask, you’ll never understand.

 

 

10) What is your stance on same-sex marriage? I believe the use of the term marriage regarding two people of the same sex is horrific. I believe homosexuals brand the term homophobe on those who abhor the practice in an attempt to cloud the issue. It isn’t because we “don’t understand” nor are uneducated in this area of depravity; nor are we afraid of homosexuals, as the term would imply; it’s simply an ungodly lifestyle. Personally I have friends, who are homosexuals, and I love them; and because I love them, I would never give them the idea that I think it’s o.k. Because I love them, I’m willing to be honest enough with them to let them know I think it’s wrong. I don’t condemn them and tell them “you’re going to hell because you’re a sinner!” – We’re all sinners. The only difference between their sin and mine is that theirs is breeding an entire community whose purpose is not merely to be accepted; but to push an ungodly lifestyle into the limelight as though it as something to be desired.

 

Why? It’s not the way God intended things to be. Accepting such a lifestyle under the guise of “tolerance” is teaching our children and all those who value our opinion that it’s really o.k. And that we approve of it. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

 

As far as this comment - "Point taken cwes99_03;

but in the end, I don't think God really cares about all these semantics",

 

I think there is way too much talking about God going on, and not enough true desire to know Him. Of course talking (writing), is what this forum is all about, and that's cool; However no one will ever find God simply by talking about Him. "...A rose by any other name, is still a rose."

[cwes99_03]

I find that interesting. We actually share some views there.

 

I don't want to sound like the only those who are righteous according to my beliefs will receive the promised reward. I know the Bible says that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous (Acts 24:15).

 

However, I also believe that not everyone will be resurrected. Especially certain ones the Bible identifies, such as Adam, Eve, Cain, and Judas. If these ones will not be resurrected, then certainly others also will not be.

[BEAKER]

...However, I also believe that not everyone will be resurrected. Especially certain ones the Bible identifies, such as Adam, Eve, Cain, and Judas. If these ones will not be resurrected, then certainly others also will not be.

What verses are you basing this on?

[Kriminal99]

Personally, I think think is a rather weak attempt at weilding the two edged sword of rational thought. Sounds more like deep rooted supressed subconscious dissappointment and bitterness toward some previously respected religious individual to me.

 

But you bring up an interesting point.

 

How would they know it was a god? ...Hummm.

 

For the answer to this question I refer you to the answer given in regards to: "How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop...?":shrug:

 

Ok. Btw did I mention I was god? FEAR ME and uh... write a book based on my ideas and tell anyone who doesn't listen that they will experience large amounts of pain after they die. (Haha thats a good one, noone can disprove it because noone can know what happens after you die)

 

I think the first sentence in your post is merely self deception along with an unfounded attempt to discredit the arguer rather than the argument.

[BEAKER]

I think the first sentence in your post is merely self deception along with an unfounded attempt to discredit the arguer rather than the argument.

B) I should'a had'a V8.

[Pyrotex]

That's the unfortunate thing about religious nuts, they tend to turn intelligent minded people away by insisting on strange things and dwelling on tiny details that make no sense. They tend to have the attitude that if they can't brainwash you into believe absolutely everything that they believe, then you are just a satan worshiper and that God hates you. I'm not calling anyone a religious nut here, it just sounds like Pyro's old "Church of Christ" is full of them.

 

Yes, that is one of the unfortunate things about RNuts. Here is another: in a previous post by BMW, he outlines a modern and rather romantically construed history of the Hebrews, wherein they (and God) are given modern motivations and justifications for Bronze Age behavior. I heard this same monologue many many times before.

He calls it "reasoning". B) B) :) B)

 

Say again?!?!? That is "reasoning"? Well, perhaps to him it is. In which case he might be confused or offended to know that I do not consider it "reasoning" by any stretch of the imagination. And so it goes.

 

The Church of Christ is a veritable sanctuary and breeding ground for such folks as BMW, and I don't say that as a slur.

[Pyrotex]

So I take this means that you don't think I've provided reasons for my belief. ...because there are so many people who want to be told that they can do anything, and make up their own minds on all these things, and things will be fine.

 

Well, no I don't. Now remember, I'm an ex-dyed-in-the-wool Fundy Believer myself, so I know what the reasons are. You just haven't given them, that's all.

 

Your second point is close but a little off. St. Paul (bless his little fanny) warned the early church that they would be led astray, and worse yet, they would seek out teachers who would tell them exactly what they wanted to hear. THIS is why they have huge churches, a dozen buses, two gyms, a forty-room church school, brass fittings on the mahogany pews and stained glass windows from Tiffany.

 

It's NOT that everybody wants to be told they can do anything they want. NO. It's that everybody wants to be told what they expect to hear. Methodists expect to hear that god is tolerant, and many will get to heaven. Church of Christers expect to hear that god is vengeful and few will get to heaven. In the CoC, nearly everything is a sin -- that's what they EXPECT to hear and heaven help any minister who doesn't comply. Tell the folks what they want to hear (whatever it is) and they will come and empty their wallets.

 

And you know what the FUN part is???? The really neato-keano part?????

 

If you're clever, and have enough time and stamina, you can find justification for ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL these attitudes and beliefs somewhere somehow in the good ol' bible. And of course, anyone who disagrees is obviously an agent of Satan.

 

Do YOU disagree with me??? Hmmmm??? B)

 

Bwah ha ha hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! B)

[Pyrotex]

I find that interesting. We actually share some views there...However, I also believe that not everyone will be resurrected. Especially certain ones ...such as Adam, Eve, Cain, and Judas.

 

Folks, step on up!!

Have you ever noticed what happens when two RNuts find each other? They are like two kids from the 1960's showing off their baseball card collections. "I have a Babe Ruth!" "I have a diMaggio!"

 

Only in this case it is "I believe god did this!" "I believe god condones that!" Usually, the subjects are NOT the big controversial ones, like whether Baptism is full immersion or not, but the little tiny one-obscure-verse teensy things, like whether or not Eve will get resurrected. As if it really mattered.

 

"HEY DUDES!! What'll you give me for a Mickey Mantle??" B)

[rockytriton]

hey lets not get mean now. B)

 

though I do agree, who really cares whether or not eve gets resurrected? B)

[rockytriton]

... in a previous post by BMW, he outlines....

 

I'm pretty sure that "BMW" is a woman.

 

Church of Christers expect to hear that god is vengeful and few will get to heaven.

 

Sounds like CoCers think that heaven is supposed to be an expensive country club where they don't allow them annoying poor people and dark skinned folks! B)

[Pyrotex]

[quote name=cwes99_031) For those of you who have used this or similar terminology to refer to people, 1) were you including all people of any religion?

2) Were you specifically refering to those people of any religion that are particularly zealous in their beliefs?

3) Are you particularly refering to those who believe in the Bible?

4) Have you yourself studied the religion, its ideas, its texts, the different denominations or sects and their beliefs, or are you just calling them nuts out of a disdain or hatred towards anything that you don't believe can be proved (without having studied the basis for their beliefs)?

[/quote]

 

1) Yes. Religious nuts come in all flavors.

2) Yes. We need to define 'particularly zealous'

3) No. They do seem a bit more prevalent on this site today, that's all.

4) I trained to be a Christian minister. Then I studied comparative world religions. Now I am studying the secular history of the Jewish, Christian and Pagan scriptures. I am careful (IMHO) who I call a religious nut.

[Pyrotex]

I'm pretty sure that "BMW" is a woman.

Sounds like CoCers think that heaven is supposed to be an expensive country club where they don't allow them annoying poor people and dark skinned folks! B)

 

I <assumed> BMW to be male. My bad. I will eat a grubworm in penance.

 

CoCers spend a lot of time working hard to get to heaven, but they don't seem to reckon much what it will be like. If anything, many believe it will be kinda like here on Earth, but without all the bad stuff, like taxes, sickness, boredom, old age, people smarter than they are, people of color, people who wouldn't fit in for one reason or another, or anyone who disagrees with them on any subject. They are basically very law-abiding and trustworthy folks. They make wonderful neighbors. I would not hesitate for a minute in loaning my money, my wife or my lawnmower to one of them.