What would it take to prove the existence of a God?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

The Law of Biogenesis

So tell me, how many countries have passed this law? Is it in the new EU Constitution?

 

In doing a search for this "LAW" I found this interesting definition:

 

"EVOLUTION IS AGAINST THE LAW!

 

BERT THOMPSON

 

Sometimes you will hear scientists speak of a hypothesis (high-POTH-eh-sis). This means that they have an idea (a "guess") about something, but do not yet have any facts to tell them if their idea is true or false. Sometimes scientists talk about a theory. If something is a theory, that means there are facts which show it might be true. Further testing will settle the matter.

 

However, if scientists speak of a law in science, they are talking about something which has been shown to be true all the time. In science, a law means there are no exceptions to the rule. The Law of Gravity is one example of this. Everyone knows that gravity holds things down—no exceptions. Gravity is not just a theory, it's a law."

http://www.discoverymagazine.com/articles/d1992/d9204g.htm

 

So how many of us want to stop laughing long enough to inform the author about superconductors? Or better yet, who is going to write a ticket to the scientists using superconductivity to VIOLATE the LAW of Gravity, if that law is on the books in that scientists home juristiction?

 

What idiots these people are. Harmful, malicious and stopping society from the positive progression we could be enjoying.

Some people feel that biogenesis is not a scientific law,

Ya the same one's that are laughing their heads off at the idiotic claim of Gravity being some totally inviolable LAW. They are called SCIENTISTS.

 

Thanks again for more laughs. You guys are always so entertaining. Or would be if it were not for the extreme HARM caused by the promotion of this type religious superstition instead of rational thought and scientific advancement.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

Scientific Method

 

The scientific method is held in high esteem by most atheists

EWE! NOT ATHEISTS! EWE!

 

It MUST be bad! Used as a sauce when eating babies no doubt! Or as a lubricant when raping women!

and it is composed of the following parts...

1) Careful observation of a phenomenon.

Sure wouldn't want to look TOO CLOSE! Might find some FACTS hiding in there!

2) Formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomenon.

On no! there's that logic and reasoning again! Shame Shame...

3) Experimentation to demonstrate whether the hypothesis is true or false.

How dare they! When we all KNOW that Blind Faith is the ONLY way to go!

4) A conclusion that validates or modifies the hypothesis.

Never, if it is not written in god's own handwriting, like the buybull, I will never accept it!

Nobody has ever observed the creation of matter and energy.

"New form of matter created in lab"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3441643.stm

"Matter created from pure light"

http://www.spie.org/web/oer/november/nov97/briefly.html

"New state of matter made

Physicists have created a patterned liquid."

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020101/020101-1.html

We read about their theories and the conclusions of the failed experiments they performed

Ya, like all the "failed experiments" above?

The laws of science falsify the notion that this physical, living world came to be through natural means.

Like the LAW OF GRAVITY we read about earlier? What a joke!

Atheism violates these basic laws of science.

Them horrible baby eating, drug pushing, women raping Atheists! Look at what they ar4e doing to the world right how! Them Atheists in power in the US (ops they're Christians) starting a war agains them Atheist Terrorists (ops they're Muslems). Or the Atheists against the Atheists in Ireland (ops they're BOTH Christians).

 

And NOW they are making things float by VIOLATING the SCIENTIFIC LAW of Gravity!

 

Next they'll being causing waves to collapse into particles!

 

Better stop them before it's too late! Otherwise they may find a cure for another of god's intentional diseases he created to torture and kill humans!

 

The most telling thing in all of this, the thing that shows how ignorant and illogical these Creationists are, is that they will CLAIM to use Science in their approach and then trash it at the same time. They can SCIENTIFICALLY prove that SCIENCE is not usable! What idiots!

[Freethinker]

Actually I was wrong in the last post.

 

The "most telling thing" is how Dustybrains is trying to throw so much at us that we won't notice him not being able to overcome the list of obvious biblical errors.

[oblivion]

A God.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

 

The skeptic asks, "If God created the universe, then who created God?"

 

and those that lack the ability to handle logical thinking answer:

 

God is the uncreated creator of the universe,

 

I didn't see this one before. I love it. I was about 5 years old when I asked my Mother the same question and received the same answer. That is when I decided none of this superstition was quite right. That is also why I'm so amazed that so many seemingly intelligent adults buy into this junk. If a five year old kid can figure it out, it should be obvious.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

Originally posted by: Freethinker

and those that lack the ability to handle logical thinking answer:

God is the uncreated creator of the universe,

I was about 5 years old when I asked my Mother the same question and received the same answer. That is when I decided none of this superstition was quite right. That is also why I'm so amazed that so many seemingly intelligent adults buy into this junk. If a five year old kid can figure it out, it should be obvious.

Yes, as a child starts to learn to THINK, they learn to start questioning. They become a natural curious skeptic. They've been fooled by poeple kidding with them and are leraning to tell things that make sense from those that don't.

 

They start asking questions the parents can't answer. Even simple math or science things. "Why is the sky blue?". Most parents lack the knowledge, becauase they come from the same trap. Rather than admit ignorace and have the fun of finding the answers together, they grasp for the simple mind numbing reply they were given, GOD! One answer to lots of otherwise good questions.

 

The kids learns he will get the same answer, why keep asking?

 

Then they decide whether they will search for the answer themselves, or shut down their brain and echo GOD themselves.

 

 

Schools are designed to fill an empty bucket. A parent sends their child to school with an empty bucket for a mind and the school fills it with FACTS. They don't spend much time showing HOW to think, just WHAT to think. It is easier to test for results and the kids don't keep asking their parents embarrasing questions.

[Uncle Martin]

All good observations. The difference between remembering and thinking is huge. This computer that I'm using is quite good at remembering, however it surely does not think. My memory isn't what it once was but I am continually learning how to think. Teachers hated to see me in their class, I questioned everything and if it wasn't a fact to be found in the "book" they rarely had any answers. Fixing our schools should be a priority, but since this subject is currently being discussed in another thread I'll end this much off topic post by saying that no teacher has ever proved the existence of god.

 

There, back on topic.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Uncle Martin

I'll end this much off topic post by saying that no teacher has ever proved the existence of god.

 

There, back on topic.

 

There is an anecdotal story told by Christians quite frequently. We know how they love to be fooled by simplistic fairytales. I found this capsule of the story on one of many sites that address this story:

 

"Summary of Rumor

A notorious atheist professor at the University of Southern California is known for challenging students about their faith. He dramatically drops a piece of chalk to the floor saying that if God existed, he could prevent the chalk from breaking. This happens year after year until a particular Christian student becomes a part of the class. This time, when the professor drops the chalk, it bounces off his clothing and ends up harmlessly on the floor. The stunned professor runs from the room in shame and the student preaches the Gospel to the remaining class members."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chalk.htm

">http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chalk.htm

</a>

 

Some sites still claim this as a TRUE story. Most acknowledge it is just another Christian LIE (they call them myths!). Some post the story, acknowledging it MAY NOT be true. USC has a disclaimer oin their site

 

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V136/N04/04-philoso.04c.html

">http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V136/N04/04-philoso.04c.html

</a>

 

But even that is not enough to convince some Christians.

 

A similar, but older story is told replacing the chalk with a glass flask. While both the original story teller and the claimed Prof at the specified University have all been verified, the actual event has not. The Univeristy does not address the story that I could find.

 

Further, the stories are based on an event that is repeated numerous times over many years. The results changes ONCE. And somehow Christians convolute another anecdotal possible event into a PROOF.

[Dustycanvas]

Ya know...I have read all of this and I have come to a conclusion.You guys are so drunk on your own intellect that you couldn't comprehend truth if it knocked on your door. I'm not going to try to persuade you or change...that was never the intention. With all that I said I was showing you that I have done my homework too. No, I'm not "newly indoctrinated". This is all

old school" to me...all this"the Bible is fallible and contradictory and and and" is not some new thought of yours. The Bible will prove itself though events and more importantly TIME. I hope you enjoy deluding yourself. For your sake...you'd better pray your right about this. But, again...time will tell.

 

p.s.-I'm a gal not a guy

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

For your sake...you'd better pray your right about this. But, again...time will tell.

 

Well, for how long? Time was supposed to tell, well, *many* times by now.

 

p.s.-I'm a gal not a guy

 

Gender should not be a barrier in this forum, and it certainly hasn't stopped a few others from taking up arms against FT, Uncle Martin and company (although I admit to a dominantly male user base, yes). But remember that these issued have been discussed to death now - we are waiting for someone to bring something fresh into this discussion. Name-dropping just won't do it, no matter what your gender is.

 

Tormod

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

I'm not going to try to persuade you or change...that was never the intention.

You post all this gibberish with the intention of what then?

The Bible will prove itself though events and more importantly TIME.

That is an extraordinary claim, where's your evidence? Keep in mind that you cannot use the buybull to prove it's content.

I hope you enjoy deluding yourself.

Got a mirror handy? This is the most backward statement you've made so far.

For your sake...you'd better pray your right about this.

You just don't get it, do you? I don't hope I'm right. This is simply what the evidence indicates. Your version of an afterlife is something I'd love to see as reality. It beats the hell out of no longer existing. I don't rule out an afterlife, there is just no reason for me to accept that there is one for lack of ANY evidence. Truthfully, I hope I'm wrong. I am not going to manifest my hopes, or those of millennia old superstitions, as reality.

But, again...time will tell.

It may. Or it may not. Why does every question require an answer? Why can't you just admit, at least to yourself, I DON'T KNOW? There is no shame in not knowing the answer to a possibly unanswerable question.

p.s.-I'm a gal not a guy

Congratulations.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

Ya know...I have read all of this and I have come to a conclusion.You guys are so drunk on your own intellect that you couldn't comprehend truth if it knocked on your door.

A very typical reply. Try to blame US for your failure to provide even the first bit of TRUTH for anyone to look at.

 

Just empty claims.

 

And refusal to answer even the first question about your beliefs.

 

Don;t think you fool anyone but yourself with this weak attempt.

 

If you came here to have an open intellectually honest rational discussion, then you have to follow the rules.

 

If you want to make a claim, show support.

 

So far we have not seen anything.

 

Just your complaints that we won't blindly accept your random assertions.

 

I'm not going to try to persuade you or change...that was never the intention. With all that I said I was showing you that I have done my homework too.

You have not shown any study. The blocks of text look like typical cut and paste freom any number of Creationist web sites. They have been so completely refuted in the outside world, we seldom pay attention to them except when someone like you comes along and dumps them back in here.

 

I showed any number of placecs that your supposed studies fall apart. Instead of providing additional support for your assertions, or admitting being wrong, you want to complain.

 

Do you have additional proof of your claims? If not, are you willing to admit it? If neither, what do expect from a SCIENCE site?

No, I'm not "newly indoctrinated". This is all old school" to me

Ya, 1600 years ago. We've come a long way since then. At least most of us.

...all this"the Bible is fallible and contradictory and and and" is not some new thought of yours.

Your right, the bible has been attacked as false since it was compiled. There were a large number of texts floating around, someone had to decide which to keep and which to toss out. Irenaeus, the Bishop of Lyons in aprox 180 CE insisted there should be four Gosples because there were four cardinal points to the (flat) earth. Thus they pasted 4 together.

 

"It is not possible that the gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four quarters of the earth in which we live, and four universal winds, while the church is scattered throughout all the world, and the 'pillar and ground' of the church is the gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh....

 

Therefore the gospels are in accord with these things.... For the living creatures are quadriform and the gospel is quadriform.... These things being so, all who destroy the form of the gospel are vain, unlearned, and also audacious; those (I mean) who represent the aspects of the gospel as being either more in number than as aforesaid, or, on the other hand, fewer."

The Bible will prove itself though events

Yes and it has PROVEN itself WRONG based on claimed events.

and more importantly TIME.

If it is factually wrong today, that won;t change at ANY time in the future.

I hope you enjoy deluding yourself.

Obviously not as much as you do.

For your sake...you'd better pray your right about this. But, again...time will tell.

Yes always the fear angle. The last resort of the bully.

 

I guess you have nothing left but the threats.

 

If you should run across any FACTS however, you will find them to be welcome.

p.s.-I'm a gal not a guy

Prove it.

[sanctus]

dustycanvas,

 

I've got a so called "science-site" exactly made for you, I already posted in the section websites, but just for you I post it again here:

http://www.trnty.edu/faculty/robbert/SRobbertWebFolder/ChristianityMath/LinearAlgebra.html

 

Have fun, while discussing with people that pretend to know science (it's their right to do so, as long as they don't want to impose us their view and judge as a 0 eigenvalue :-) ).

 

By the way, in your first post you wrote that evolutionists say that we descend from monkeys. I would bet that you would not even find one evolutionists that would claim that, because the scientific evidence doesnt prove that. nevertheless scientific evidence shows that we have got the same predecessor (it's the wrong word i think, i didn't find the right translation, but I think you understand).

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: sanctus

dustycanvas,

My guess is that he gave up when he realized that we don't fall for psuedo-scientific ramblings he so readily accepts. They seldom stick around when they see how badly theu are being refuted. They typically have stayed in their own world and are not ready for the rude awakening they get when they hit the REAL world.

By the way, in your first post you wrote that evolutionists say that we descend from monkeys... nevertheless scientific evidence shows that we have got the same predecessor (it's the wrong word i think, i didn't find the right translation, but I think you understand).

No, he does not WANT to understand. One of the typical fallacies they use is the Straw Man. It is much easier for them to refute something if they don't use a FACTUAL approach in defining the other side. They can achieve the desired emotional knee jerk reaction from the choir by joking that we could not be desended from monkeys because monkeys exist today as do we.

 

They INTENTIONALLY refuse to use the accurate approach of "common ancestry" because they can not refute THAT.

 

The same approach is used by the same group to create the same emotional knee jerk response in many other areas. Established medical termonology such as "Intact Dilation and Extraction", which does not stir the masses to action, becomes "Partial Birth Abortion" so they can benefit from the money suckers are willing to throw when they ignore facts and react to intentional emotional manipulation.

 

You have to realize that the very basis of their belief structure is built on unsupportable fairytales. You can't expect them to start requiring logical reasoned approaches to other things.

[GAHD]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

The Bible will prove itself though events and more importantly TIME.

 

I love this statement, like there hasn't been enough 'time' passing allready....

[IrishEyes]

From Freethinker:

The same approach is used by the same group to create the same emotional knee jerk response in many other areas. Established medical termonology such as "Intact Dilation and Extraction", which does not stir the masses to action, becomes "Partial Birth Abortion" so they can benefit from the money suckers are willing to throw when they ignore facts and react to intentional emotional manipulation.

 

Ok, FreeT, please explain the above. i'm not quite sure I follow what you are trying to get at here. And no, I'm really not looking for a fight ont his one, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

 

Are you saying that an 'intact dilation and extraction' is ok, and that 'they' just started using the term 'partial birth abortion' in order to intentionally emotionally manipulate people for money? And that the outrage over abortion is just a knee-jerk reaction due to some word twisting?

 

It's really late, it's been a long day, and I'm just trying to keep up with the new posts after being gone all day, so maybe I'm missing something here. I don't want an abortion battle, but I'm really confused as to what your argument is here, exactly. Can you clarify your position regarding the above referenced staement?

 

Thanks!

[IrishEyes]

Hey FreeT, what's the deal? You made your post-maniacal quota and now you're not going to answer? LOL