What would it take to prove the existence of a God?

[Uncle Martin]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA---ROFLMAO

 

You're original, that is for sure.

[Freethinker]

This should have been very simple, YES or NO, 1 or 2, but we have to dig thru the response to find an actual answer.

 

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Could I be wrong about all of it?... Perfect Knowledge? No, I don't have that. And anyone that clams to have Perfect Knowledge of anything should be suspect.

 

So you admit that the whole god thing could be false.

 

Thus you DO NOT KNOW if there actually was a Jesus or not.

 

Thus you DO NOT KNOW if you are going to heaven or not.

 

Thus you can not CLAIM to know HOW to get to heaven even if one exists.

 

Thanks for being honest.

 

At least THIS time.

 

Unlike the previous times when you claim that you KNEW what it takes to get to heaven and god's existence and Jesus' existence, ...

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

YOU admitted that the Rapture would get your attention. Well, I don't know what could make me stop believing that God exists, but you do know something that might make you change your mind. I guess you're the better person, for knowing the limitations of your beliefs, huh?

"Better" person? No, I would not claim that. But it DOES make me more correct in the Scientific Methodology. Without "falsefyablity", there is no Science.

 

It DOES show that I approach things from a more reasoned, scientific process.

 

That I AM proud of.

[Freethinker]

What about you CD? How much intestinal fortitude do you have? Can you provide a simple answer?

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

"GOD is bigger than the...boogie man! He's bigger than Godzilla or the monsters on t.v. .... yeah, GOD is bigger than the boogie man, and He's watching over you and me!" That's the best thing my kids ever learned off of tv.

 

LOL...did you know that you can subscribe to cable tv? Or satellite service? They have other things than morning prayers these days, you now.

 

Okay, seriously. I am at a loss. There is a lot of use of the word "rapture" and I must admit I don't know what it means. Yeah, I can look it up but I want to hear it from you.

Tormod

[GAHD]

CD's been banned man

[Uncle Martin]

I have a hunch that he has been reincarnated.

[IrishEyes]

From Tormod:

Okay, seriously. I am at a loss. There is a lot of use of the word "rapture" and I must admit I don't know what it means. Yeah, I can look it up but I want to hear it from you.

 

Ok, here's my take on it. I believe in a literal RAPTURE of the Body of Christ (all true Christians, not just people that say they believe in God). To me, that means that Jesus will return for His people before the events in the last chapters of Revelation take place (ie BEFORE the Tribulation). I don't think that Christians will have to live through the "End Times", or any part of the Tribulation. I believe that there will be a time when everyone that is a Christian just disappears. Then the pact with Israel will be made, the Antichrist will emerge as a world figure, and the Two Witnesses will appear in Jerusalem.

 

Yes, it's much like what you may have read in a Left Behind book, but it's what I think will happen. So I guess RAPTURE means when Jesus returns in the sky and removes His people. This is not the Second Coming, as He will not actually be on earth, just in the air. Yes, it does sound a little hokey, I'm sure. But no moe so to me than many other things that have already happened.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... this is one that my lil ones taught me... all as one now... "GOD is bigger than the...boogie man! He's bigger than Godzilla or the monsters on t.v. .... yeah, GOD is bigger than the boogie man, and He's watching over you and me!"

 

Is it possible that Jesus, God, and all the stories in the Bible are just that - STORIES? That Jesus never walked the earth as a man? That God is a myth invented about 4,000 years ago, in order to explain 'unexplainable' mysteries? That it's all a hoax that has been perpetuated by others through time, and that will continue to exist as religious dogma for many until their death?

 

...I have undoubtedly misunderstood things about God, because I can't have that PERFECT KNOWLEDGE ... I don't know if the church I attend is 100% correct in all of their teachings... I don't know if the arguments for and against the Majority Texts are strong enough to validate my preference of the KJV of the Bible.

 

Could I be wrong about all of it? ... But Perfect Knowledge? No, I don't have that. And anyone that clams to have Perfect Knowledge of anything should be suspect.

 

So the question that now needs to be asked, based on your previous claims that you do not lie to your children, when you promote your religious ideology, do you let them know that all of this is hust your personal opinion. That you ahve no PROOF for it? That it could all be wrong and just fairytales?

 

Just how honest are you with them?

 

Would you have your children sit at your keyboard and respond to this question by having them admit that the entire Jesus/ god stories could all be myths?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tormod

Okay, seriously. I am at a loss. There is a lot of use of the word "rapture" and I must admit I don't know what it means.

Rapture is based primarily on one of the various stories in the bible, "Revelations". Revelations is actually a metaphorical story about happenings of the day during which it was written. But it has been turned into a tale of prophecy to scare people into continuing to accept the rest of the nonsense.

 

As with everything else in Christianity, each Christian has their own view as to what it says, what will or will not happen.

 

Perhaps the more popular version being pushed is the idea that this mythical biblical Jesus, who lacks ANY contemporary eyewitness support of his existence, is going to come back and magically fly his followers up to heaven. Leaving the rest of us to be tortured and ruled by a maniac for 1,000 years.

 

As always, them Christian love to scare the little ones. Help brainwash them at an early age. Horrendeous stories about how their"loving god" is going to cause them extreme pain and suffering if they do not do SOMETHING perfectly. And they can not even agree what that something is!

 

Talk about causing extreme mental abuse on children!

 

Fortunately some Christian authorities and parents decide to save the children this anxiety and kill them outright.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

So I guess RAPTURE means when Jesus returns in the sky and removes His people. This is not the Second Coming, as He will not actually be on earth, just in the air. Yes, it does sound a little hokey, I'm sure. But no moe so to me than many other things that have already happened.

Please tell us what "many other things that have" (actually) "already happened" are as "hokey" as the Rapture myth?

[IrishEyes]

From FreeT:

So the question that now needs to be asked, based on your previous claims that you do not lie to your children, when you promote your religious ideology, do you let them know that all of this is hust your personal opinion. That you ahve no PROOF for it? That it could all be wrong and just fairytales?

 

Just how honest are you with them?

 

Would you have your children sit at your keyboard and respond to this question by having them admit that the entire Jesus/ god stories could all be myths?

 

To answer your question...wait a second! I ALREADY answered your question:

 

 

From the Evolution of Education thread...

04/27/2004 03:59 PM

 

I agree with you on this one. My children have been taught to question everything, including what their parents believe about God. I will not tolerate them being forced into a blind belief in religious idealogies any more than I tolerate the accepted standardized methods for teaching any other subject.

 

Of course, this again goes against the grain for some of my Christian friends and associates, but these are MY children, and I have to do what I think is right. But by the same token, my children will still be required to show the proper respect for my beliefs, even if they don't agree with them. I don't feel that you should denegrate another person for having a different belief system.

 

Was that not a satisfactory answer, or are you jut trying to stir the pot in THIS topic?

[Freethinker]

Ops, MY BAD!

 

No I did not remember your prior response to my more recent question. Precognition? You have powers beyond my comprehension! :-)

 

And yes I was looking to stimulate discussion here.

 

Hoping to keep the thread visible enough to get answers to my other questions.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

From FreeT:

 

So the question that now needs to be asked, based on your previous claims that you do not lie to your children, when you promote your religious ideology, do you let them know that all of this is hust your personal opinion. That you ahve no PROOF for it? That it could all be wrong and just fairytales?

 

Just how honest are you with them?

 

Would you have your children sit at your keyboard and respond to this question by having them admit that the entire Jesus/ god stories could all be myths?

To answer your question...wait a second! I ALREADY answered your question:

 

Was that not a satisfactory answer, or are you jut trying to stir the pot in THIS topic?

 

While it does provide a fairly comprehensive explanation of HOW you approach teaching your children, I still have to wonder what THEY draw out of it all. It's one thing for you to say you have provided a "fair and balanced" (Let's hope that doesn't mean LYING like it does whan Fox News uses it) education to them. It is another for them to understand that you do not completely believe in the Christian theology as inerant and totally factual. Thus I have to wonder if they would, if you would allow them to, acknowledge the same level of disbelief openly.

 

Do they "understand" that they do not know, not only whether you or they are going to heaven, but that there may not even be a heaven? No Jesus? No God?

[ArisSlatr]

Ive read this whole thing, and now its time to becomea poster for it.

 

Lets get this back into perspective. The arguments initially are about the orginal article.

1. Can creation work?

This question is silly. No it can't.

Arguments that support old earth are continental drift over time, starlight from billions of light years, and frozen dinosaurs, to name a few. There are many, many more, and topping that off, evolution is easily provable too.

 

It then went to is the man even qualitfied to argue about this.

2. Is he qualified?

To teach offcially? No.

Although this man has a "degree", he teaches an unaccepted method of reality, and therefore is teaching propaganda. Sure, he's allowed to speak, but his information is refuted all the time, and is incorrent! Therefore he isnt qualified to be an official teacher.

 

Finally it went to what does it take to qualify.

3. What makes who official?

Knowlege of the topic.

Science is the ability to perform an experiment, and before the result occurs, predict the effect, and if the result is correctly stated, and this process is repeatable, then it is provable, and therefore science.

 

In other words, an accreditted scientist will have done experiments, and understand the rules of reality. Experienceand resultsdefine credibility.

And for the sake of people who want to tear me apart -

Experience - Past event which the person was involved in, where a task needed performed and results were produced.

Results - Viewable, repeatable information and equasions that provide answers to questions.

 

--

 

If you want me to elaborate on any theories, or concepts, or want more information, I will provide it.

[Dustycanvas]

I'm not going to try to tear anyone apart on this or anything of the sort. I believe what I believe despite science.

 

Now, I love science. I study it as a hobby. I particularly love physics. But, nothing I have studied has been contrary to my belief/faith in God. Actually, everything I read just confirms His existance. But, lets look at this from a simple standpoint...would you rather think that our existance is just a chaotic "oops" in the heavenlys millions of years ago...that everything was an accident. That we evolved from monkeys? Than to believe that all of this was planned and created by an omnipotent,omniscient,omnipresent God. This world,this life is far too complex to be just an accident. Everything in the Bible has physical "proof". They have found the artifacts and places spoken of in the Bible. The garden of Eden is an actual place in the Middle east. The garden of gestsemene is an actual place. Golgotha was an actual place. And the tomb of Jesus is still there...empty.

 

I know I am sounding like a "typical" christian trying to prove that God is real. But, I tell you this...if it's proof you want...proof you'll get. This is going to sound far fetched but just take note of it and mark my word...it will happen. And when it does remember this will be your proof. ANd then you can decide what you want to do about it. In the book of Revelation in the Bible it speaks of a war that will kill 2 billion people. No doubt by a Nuke. This sounds bizarre, and your probably laughing in disbelief. but, just mark it. Write this down or make a mental note. When 2 billion are killed, whether it happens all at once or over a period of time, and this will happen soon....just remember it is your proof. There is a God.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Dustycanvas

 

Now, I love science. I study it as a hobby. I particularly love physics. But, nothing I have studied has been contrary to my belief/faith in God. Actually, everything I read just confirms His existance.

I think you should study much, MUCH harder.

....... Everything in the Bible has physical "proof". They have found the artifacts and places spoken of in the Bible. The garden of Eden is an actual place in the Middle east. The garden of gestsemene is an actual place. Golgotha was an actual place. And the tomb of Jesus is still there...empty.

EVERYTHING??? Try nothing. You are confusing geography with history.

...if it's proof you want...proof you'll get.

Now we're talking. YES!!!! This IS what I've been looking for. PROOF!! So show me this proof. I sincerely hope your idea of proof is not similar to your above post, as that would be truly anti-climactic. Actually I would not bother to try and refute "proof" of that nature.

This is going to sound far fetched but just take note of it and mark my word...it will happen.

The hell you say?

And when it does remember this will be your proof.

NOPE. That's not how it works. Proof either exists or it doesn't, none of this "it will"!!!