Alternative fuels...how much longer

[Kayra]

I have always liked this one

http://www.stirlingengine.com/ecommerce/product.tcl?usca_p=t&product_id=78

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

MM-7 Stirling Engine

 

New Engine: The amazing MM-7 Stirling engine will run indefinitely on just the heat from your warm hand! As a gift, conversation piece, or classroom demo, you can be sure it will be unique and attention getting.

 

Our Price: $379.00 <------HOLY F*&%$#@ S*!+!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(ain't that just a bit steep!!!!!!!!!!)

[P-man]

Yeah, they're not giving it away, what.

[CraigD]

No cheap-looking anodized metal, $379.00 MM-7 Stirling engine for me, thank you – I’ll take the much prettier Van Arsdell Stirling engine for a mere $1979.00! :hihi: I must admit, the $139.00 MM-1 looks pretty sweet, and more in my price range.

 

Makes me wonder how much my uncle’s machine cost, and what ever became of it. He was of modest means, but prone to extravagance, especially when deeply under the influence of alcohol. :D

 

I’d not expect a hands-on mechanical type like DFINITLYDISTRUBD to stoop to buying one of these things. The challenge, it seems, is to make your own that’ll run on as little a temperature difference as the 4° C of the MM-7, rather than the 22° of the MM-1.

[Zythryn]

Sadly for Hydrogen, I suspect it is unlikely to EVER be a widely accepted fuel source unless a method is discovered that allows it to be used in it's liquid form. :D

 

Ask and you shall receive!!!

BMW has a concept car currently on the road in Germany which is an internal combustion engine running on liquid hydrogen. It is a dual tank system, so it will run on normal gas or hydrogen. They are currently planning to have a few hundred cars ready for public purchase in 2008!!

 

Word is they continue to work on fule cell technology, but that is a ways off yet.

 

As soon as a list starts, I'll be signing up (well, if I can afford it:)).

 

Mark

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I’d not expect a hands-on mechanical type like DFINITLYDISTRUBD to stoop to buying one of these things. The challenge, it seems, is to make your own that’ll run on as little a temperature difference as the 4° C of the MM-7, rather than the 22° of the MM-1.

 

you know me toooooo well!!!!!!!!! The misses is looking very worried as the gears in my head are turning already and bits and pieces of this and that are starting to cover my work bench!!!!!! (as of yet I'm not entirely sure as to what I'm doing but I'll figure it out the same way I sort everything else out...I'll figure it out as build it.) I'm hoping to use butane for a power source. It (Hell I don't know!! something about it being a liquid under relatively low pressure and it's ability to make things really cold really fast...still sorting it all out)

 

I have been dreaming of building a "cold" engine...something like a steam recipricating engine but using a compressor and refrigerant instead of a boiler, fuel and water....a non-combustion reciprocating engine. I'd skip the condensor and use a chamber around each cylinder that would warm them with compressed refrigerant which would be fired into each cylinder at the appropriate time then be pulled out of the cylinder by the compressor at the end of each stroke. (not really related to a stirling engine but oh well!)

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Incidently sweetie won't let me buy one even if I wanted to!!!!!!!!

I quote "what does it do?" It sits on your hand and runs "what do you use it for?" entertainment "so it sits on your hand and spins and that's all it does?!?"Yeah but it's really cool! "how much is it?" 300 something "that's rediculous!!"

 

the rest is too graphic to post.

[P-man]

Well if you want to hybrid it to soimething that produces heat like a fuel cell or engine then temperature difference is not that important.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Been thinkin bout stirling engines alot lately...also about the "chips" (don't know what they are really called) inside portable food heater/coolers...I know that one side of these "chips" gets hot while the other cool depending on polarity.....am dreaming up a V-twin stirling that uses these "chips" to achieve the temp differential between the cylinders... to turn a small generator to power the chips to turn to cool one cylinder heat the other to rotate the crank to turn the generator to power the chip etc. etc. etc.

.

.

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.Im pretty sure ive lost it!!!!! Run save yourselves!!!!runnnnnn!!

[arkain101]

it might hinder acceleration but add like what ? 1hp to low rpm lugging?

 

how much power them stirlings make?

[CraigD]

Been thinkin bout stirling engines alot lately...also about the "chips" (don't know what they are really called) inside portable food heater/coolers...I know that one side of these "chips" gets hot while the other cool depending on polarity...

They’re usually called either Peltier devices (for the guy who discovered the effect in 1834), ThermoElectric modules, or just TE modules. They can often be “run backwards” to generate electricity directly from a temperature difference, in which case they’re usually called Seebeck devices or Seebeck generators, (for the guy who discovered that effect in 1821).

...am dreaming up a V-twin stirling that uses these "chips" to achieve the temp differential between the cylinders...

Just dreaming, I think. Due to some fundamental material physics, TE modules are only about 5-10% efficient – about 4-12 times worse than even a simple piston compressor refrigerator.

 

The main place TE modules are good for is where the simplicity of absolutely no moving parts is top of your design criteria – like in a little plastic cooler chest you can plug into a car battery, for a little extra boost on a computer chip cooler, or on a satellite, where any mechanical failure is a very, very bad thing. They’re very tough, especially the ones made of 2 metals – shake them, dent them, even punch holes in them, and they’ll still keep working, as long as you don’t break their electric connections.

how much power them stirlings make?

In principle, a Stirling cycle engine can be as powerful as you’re willing to build it, and produces about 50% more power for the same heat source than a conventionally (Eg: 2-stroke steam, turbine, etc.) engine. With their complicated double pistons and linkages, though, they’re larger and heavier than other engines, so have mostly been limited to special applications, where high efficiency (eg: solar power) or mechanical quiet (eg: submarines) is most important.

 

As best I was able to search out, the most powerful commercially available Stirling engine is a 2-cylinder unit used in SES’s solar dish system, at about 25 KW (33 HP). The biggest home unit I’ve seen is this unit by Wispergen, a 1200 W (1.6 HP) unit massing 135 KG (and also functioning as a furnace boiler).

 

In searching, I came across this very cool 50 KM (67 HP) “wankle-like” “quasiturbine” engine. And, for sheer coolness, this toy, which I mentioned along with some others back in post #72 is hard to beat (Santa, are you listening? :D).

[Michaelangelica]

 

Drop a bag full of the same optimal hydrogen/ogygen mix down the tube, and see how far I can shoot a frozen chicken. I guess about 200-250 meters.

.

Kentuckey Flied Chicken:)

 

This is along article on energy generally; with some well reseached points to make. I didn't give it the thorough read it deserved. I need to print it out and study it but no ink! Also it is very USA centric. I first posted it on the Terra preta thread but it may be more relevant here.

http://ergosphere.blogspot.com/2006/11/sustainability-energy-independence-and.html

In OZ we get most of our alcohol from sugar cane bagess so it may be a better proposition for us; but the article does make you pause for thought.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Thanx!!! fer thuh info!!

pretty cool schtuff!

hope santa noticed that I've been a verrrrry good boy this year!!!

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

They’re usually called either Peltier devices (for the guy who discovered the effect in 1834), ThermoElectric modules, or just TE modules. They can often be “run backwards” to generate electricity directly from a temperature difference, in which case they’re usually called Seebeck devices or Seebeck generators, (for the guy who discovered that effect in 1821).

This dawned on me at work today...A while back while playing with one I noticed that it had enough juice when disconected from my power supply to turn a dc motor (for a fair amount of time even) ... always thought after that it had worked like a capacitor...never knew that heat could be converted directly into electricity! sooooooooooo coooooool! Still think the way they work is similar to the traditional compressor condenser and evap system only with electrons instead of refrigerant though. Am I far off?

[CraigD]

Still think the way they [Peltier devices] work is similar to the traditional compressor condenser and evap system only with electrons instead of refrigerant though. Am I far off?

Seems a good analogy to me, though a simple liquid cooler (eg: pump and radiator) is closer, since it doesn’t have the complicated coolant state change of an evaporative refrigerator.

 

The electric current introduces a negative charge on the cool side of the cooler, meaning that the electron has, on average, less kinetic energy than on the hot side. The difference in charge causes cool electrons to move to the hot side, and hot ones to move to the cool side. It’s much like a simple liquid cooling system, where hot and cool molecules are moved by hydraulic pressure.

 

From what I’ve read, Peltier devices can be made more efficient utilizing more complicated effects due to designed-in imperfections in their crystal structure, but the basic mechanics of them is that of a “charge pump”.

[Michaelangelica]

I don't really understand what you guys are talking about

but

Can this "Peltier Thingy" be used for distilling fresh water from the air?

Thermoelectric Peltier Device Information (TE Heater/Cooler/Generator Modules) - General Info

Moisture Concerns...

If a TE module is to be used to cool anywhere near freezing one has to be very

concerned about water condensation. Ever-present water vapor begins to drop out

of the air at the "Dew Point." This will result in the TE module, and what it

is being used to cool, to get wet. Moisture inside of the TE module will cause

corrosion and can result in a short-circuit. Solutions to this problem are to

operate the TE module in a vacuum (best) or a dry nitrogen atmosphere, or to

insulate or seal the module so well that no moisture can enter. One could seal

the edges of the TE module with RTV silicone sealant, but some manufacturers

recommend against this technique as water vapor can migrate through silicone

sealant and become trapped inside of the module. As a solution Tellurex offers

a polyamide epoxy sealant, TE Tech has a special potting material, and Nord has

a special coating. If the TE module is being used to cool, for example, an

energized electrical device to 0oC there is still the issue of

preventing water condensing on that device and causing corrosion, a short

circuit or electrical leakage

.

[Michaelangelica]

Some interesting bits and pieces about alternative fuels here:)

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