SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 what are you searching for Free Thinker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: gekoOriginally posted by: SlinkFree A) It is the search for truth that led me to this forum, it is the search for truth that propels me through this crazy life. In my opinion, the world would be an empty place without this drive..., B) ...and without belief... as i said before, i think its a crazy when you look at our world and realise that in effect, whatever our religion, beliefs or mind-sets, we are all searching for the same thing... we are all searching for G-d. Doesnt B contradict A? I like it! Why did I not think of it... Getting sloppy. Anyway... Meditation is the art of not thinking. To not think, you just observe. The difficulty comes with the amount of time that you're able to do this for because judgement creeps in. Some good stuff. THough I would have to disagree about a requirement to observe in order to not think. You can also simplify. You actually "observe" less. Say something reeal dramatic catches your attention. You can become almost single minded in observation, ignoring everything else. Now do that with a less agressive attachment to the primary object. And let the primary object be an intangeble. I do agree completely with: There is nothing mystical about meditation. But it does exist as a physical process. It is a learnable skill like any other. There does not need to be a mystical element for it to work and have value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreeG-d. Why are you afraid to type the "o"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreeG-d. Why are you afraid to type the "o"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFree"Doesnt B contradict A? " er... how exactly? If it were a snake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreewhat are you searching for Free Thinker? Truth, knowledge, the best path for humanity, the perfect martini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lou Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 to freethinkerAs with anything. It takes practice and understanding of the process. But it IS possible. I have experienced it twice that I know of. wuahahahha, wuahahah!!!! hahahah!!!assume you actually stop thinking, but at that time, you're thinking that you've gone blank! if not, you will not know that your thinkging has stopped and you will not remember, which is not possible. when your swooned, your mind really go blank and you dont know what happen during that time. ok, another thing, y do you believe that you had gone blank since there is no proof? well, experience is not a proof since NDE is not a proof as you said. (a proof is required b/c everything for you should be based on proof as people saw in your posts.) as you said you are finding the "truth" here, you SHOULD NOT say that you experienced it and so you know it, it contradicts your "MAIN IDEA". sry for being off-topic. one thing i wanna say is that PROOF is not a really important thing sometimes, you feel it and you experience and thats it (sometimes). if everything is based on proof for someone, that guy is crazy, he gotta do a hell lot of research for everything happens in his life! when he woke up in the morning, he has to prove that hes awake and hes been sleeping on his bed base on evidence!!!! when he eats, he has to prove that the food is eatable!!!! when he takes a geometry test, he has to prove every theory he uses and he actually fail the test!!!! and he will keep trying to find evidence to see if his parents are really his parents!!! (a joke...lol....hes probably dead b4 all these happen....this is an example of a crazy man w/out belief) hmm.....is there a guy like this crazy guy above who did a big research on everything??? (what a dumb question.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinkFree Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 "Why are you afraid to type the "o"?" I thought i answered this question earlier... obviously you are getting sloppy, read your replies... however, this 'O' is just for you, it can stand for whatever you like, but i can think of a few suited adjectives... as for your name, i dont think there is anything 'free thinking' about you. You merely remind me of a shadow of extinct post-modern thought. if you were really a free thinker, you would a. respect the views of other parties without picking them appart like dirt you picked off your shoe... and b. you would make an effort to apply your own logic instead of hiding behind the pretence of other peoples quotes. Who do YOU think YOU are fooling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinkFree Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 that element of frustration aside... do you guys think there could be problems with meditation, ie. by reaching a state of conciousness, that might cut off the connection with the physical? Ive heard stories in the past of people meditating on such high levels that they literally dont return... and yes free thinker, they might have religious roots, but before you start... that doesnt make them any less valid... i think my point is that in many ways, human beings have a fundamental desire for well... whatever you may wish to call it... transcendence, escapism, etc. its just that to me, it seems that this desire to elavate oneself is fundamental to humanity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Truth, knowledge, the best path for humanity, the perfect martini Om my gosh! You ARE my ex-husband!!! Try draining all the olive juice out of the jar, then pouring in your gin (or vodka), and letting the olives soak for three days. Use a very dry vermouth, and THREE olives. That's the key, the third olive. Trust me on this one, after three martinis with three olives (aka The Holy Trinity! lol), you'll have your truth, and your knowledge, and the best path for humanity will lie at the end of your front sidewalk! Sorry, I just couldn't help passing on that info. Seriously, try soaking the olives, it'll do wonders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by: IrishEyes Truth, knowledge, the best path for humanity, the perfect martini Trust me on this one, after three martinis with three olives (aka The Holy Trinity! lol), you'll have your truth, and your knowledge, and the best path for humanity will lie at the end of your front sidewalk! Sorry, I just couldn't help passing on that info. Seriously, try soaking the olives, it'll do wonders! Olives only belong in Bloody Marys. Esp blue cheese stuffed ones. I prefer something a little purer, dryer, perhaps a Citron frozen till there's crystals floating in it.. A little sugar around the rim. Maybe a thin lemon slice floating. Your Trinity or some dirty are the big thing with some friends of mine. (Yes I do have them) One would rather fill her glass with olives and then pore the Vodka over it. Then there's mojito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 I always thought it was the bible that was against divorcing, it may also only be the interpretation of some people (I do not have a bible and the time to verify). In the case it's the bible who states it, then irisheyes you have got a problem of coherence (as you say to believe in the god of the bible)...In the case it is just the interpretation of some people then, I excuse myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louassume you actually stop thinking, but at that time, you're thinking that you've gone blank! if not, you will not know that your thinkging has stopped and you will not remember, which is not possible. when your swooned, your mind really go blank and you dont know what happen during that time. Actually Tim you are correct. when your swooned, your mind really go blank and you dont know what happen during that timeThat IS what happens. Yes I did "swoon", if what you mean is to lose "consciousness". The body colapses, so you make sure in front that you are in a safe position, you even drool on yourself typically (yuk). And no you do not know what is/ did happen during that time. When you regain consciousness, it is not like a dream state where you become consciously aware of the mental activity you are coming out of. You become aware of your mind not having had ANY thoughts. It is NOT the same as REM sleep. ok, another thing, y do you believe that you had gone blank since there is no proof? well, experience is not a proof since NDE is not a proof as you said. (a proof is required b/c everything for you should be based on proof as people saw in your posts.) The "proof" is empirical in my recall upon returning to active consciousness. Yes it is a personal thing on some levels (more shortly) but it is NOT like your NDE nonsense. It IS like NDE's in that something PHYSICAL is happening. And it is like NDE's in that some people try to assign some mystical connection to it, rather than accepting the simple physical reality of it. It is also like NDE's in that lab test have quantified the actual physiological processes involved. as you said you are finding the "truth" here, you SHOULD NOT say that you experienced it and so you know it, it contradicts your "MAIN IDEA". Yes I admit personal experience. But you are absolutely correct that should not be enough, nor is it for me. I spent good effort in reasearching the whys and whats of it. It is well quantified by science. Alpha/ beta/ theta waves, syncronizing between hemispheres... Thus my acceptance/ understanding is a balance between personal experience compared to lab experiments. [q[sry for being off-topic. one thing i wanna say is that PROOF is not a really important thing sometimes, you feel it and you experience and thats it (sometimes). I think it is perfectly on topic. Because proof is ALWAYS really important. The level of acceptance given to anything SHOULD be based on available proof for it. I have not come to acceptance of the meditation process based on mere personal experience nor claims of adherents. I accept meditation processes based on lab controlled experiments serving to explain personal experience. if everything is based on proof for someone, that guy is crazy, he gotta do a hell lot of research for everything happens in his life! Ya well we have seen that some people are in fact lazy. Willing to accept things they regularly admit they lack any proof for. And further to base their entire life's world view on something they admit they lack any proof for shows an extreme lazy attitude, particularly in personal philosophy. What is truly amazing and very disconcerting, that people ARE so intentionally lazy that they will allow their lives to be directed by something they have failed to find proof for. I have said it before and this exemplifies it perfectly. Everyone has to decide how much value they place on their personal lives. It is obvious that anyone that is so lazy that they accept a world view for their lives based on something they acknowlege lacks any factual support is showing they have decided their lives are worth that level of effort.. nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFree"Why are you afraid to type the "o"?" I thought i answered this question earlier... obviously you are getting sloppy, read your replies... however, this 'O' is just for you, it can stand for whatever you like, but i can think of a few suited adjectives... I looked briefly and did not see anything that would be such an answer. It could be in the 6 pages I was trying to catch up on, but I did not find it. But showing that your "o" works. which if YOU were not "obviously ... getting sloppy", you would have seen that I specifically mentioned in my first post that I saw you using the "o" elsewhere, is not the specific question. And you know it. You are just trying to hide from your problems. the specific question is: Why are you AFRAID to type the "o" in god? if you were really a free thinker, you would a. respect the views of other parties without picking them appart like dirt you picked off your shoe... You like to make claims and then fail to support them. PROVE that a freethinker is REQUIRD to respect any and all views no matter how absurd or disproven. That would be a NON-thinker. and b. you would make an effort to apply your own logic instead of hiding behind the pretence of other peoples quotes. Who do YOU think YOU are fooling? This is actually laughable. To assert that I am hiding behind the "claim(s) made or implied; (which are) not supported by fact" (pretence per WWWebster) by others. When it is totally obvious that I am picking these very unsupported claims apart. Obviously the only ones I am "fooling" are those unable to comprehend the thought processes invovled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreethat element of frustration aside... do you guys think there could be problems with meditation, ie. by reaching a state of conciousness, that might cut off the connection with the physical? Ive heard stories in the past of people meditating on such high levels that they literally dont return... and yes free thinker, they might have religious roots, but before you start... that doesnt make them any less valid... What makes them "less valid" is your attempt to validate an assertion with your only reference being "Ive heard stories in the past". It is obvious that you do not even understand what the concept of PROOF is. I've "heard stories in the past" about people levitating while meditating. They turn out to be LIES when they are tested. I "heard stories in the past" about people stopping their heart while meditating, turns out to be LIES when tested. The difference between you and I is that when YOU "heard stories in the past". you mindelssly accept them. And as discussed in another post, I am not that "lazy". i think my point is that in many ways, human beings have a fundamental desire for well... whatever you may wish to call it... transcendence, escapism, etc. its just that to me, it seems that this desire to elavate oneself is fundamental to humanity... Interesting that you consider "escaping" reality to be "desirable" and "elavating". Again, I am not that "lazy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by: sanctusI always thought it was the bible that was against divorcing, it may also only be the interpretation of some people (I do not have a bible and the time to verify). Most people are amazed at what is ACTUALLY in the bible if they should not be too "lazy" (from an earlier post) to check it out before claiming they follow it. In the case it's the bible who states it, then irisheyes you have got a problem of coherence (as you say to believe in the god of the bible)... In the case it is just the interpretation of some people then, I excuse myself. The bible gives very specific details on why someone should divorce their mate. And even go so far as to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 I always thought it was the bible that was against divorcing, it may also only be the interpretation of some people (I do not have a bible and the time to verify). In the case it's the bible who states it, then irisheyes you have got a problem of coherence (as you say to believe in the god of the bible)... In the case it is just the interpretation of some people then, I excuse myself. Actually sanctus, you're right, on both counts. In almost every single situation, the Bible is VERY against divorce. There are a few exceptions, but they are few and far between. Here's a bit of my own personal story. I'm really leaving myself open to attack here, and I just hope that you will ALL try to keep an open mind. I'm not checking this for consistency, or accuracy, or anything, I'm just going to type from my heart and then hit reply, and hope that you will all be kind. PLEASE be kind...I got married young, to a self-professed atheist. I had abandoned my yourthful blind faith from 'church', and was agnostic. My then-husband was VERY anti-religion, and anti-God. He'd had it forced down his throat as a child, and I totally understood why he was so vehemently opposed to God. It made sense to me. And as he explained it, mush as Freethinker does, religion and the God myth were keeping society from advancing. He even went through much the same arguments about murderers being Christians, and how people that didn't believe in a 'god-myth' had no reason to kill. I was young, and very 'in love', and VERY idealistic. I could see the hypocrisy in the church where I grew up, and it disgusted me to no end. While I became agnostic by default (I truly was searching for THE truth for a while), I became an atheist by choice. I adopted his anger, and embraced his views and made them my own. I studied hard, with him, and in college, so that I could rid the world of the silly god-myth. It angered me to see people pray, I hated the POA (under God), the 10C's made my skin crawl. Mind you, this was also a very radical time for me personally, as I distanced myself from my family, jumped into school with both feet, and had a very 'worldly' lifestyle. I drank, a LOT. I lived abroad and acted like a crazy American, but I also held myself above all of the foolish 'x-stians'. Then two things happened. My oldest child was born, and my husband started drinking REALLY heavily. I have to admit, when my daughter was born, I was still an atheist, but the Heavens opened up, and the angels sang. There is really no other way to explain it. (ok, it could have been the pain drugs, but it sounded like angels to me! lol) I looked into her tiny face and all of the hatred of God just melted. Now, I'm in no way saying that I converted right there on the delivery table. I didn't. I just started questioning things again. I looked at her and saw BEAUTY. There is no way that the beautiful child that could light up a room with her smile evolved. She was a creation! Somehow, the very best from both of us got mixed up and out she came - love and life, and everything perfect in this world. Well, I lost my passion for fighting against the god myth and started searching for TRUTH again. The explanations that I took for granted (like the geologic column being accurate, and a VERY old earth based on evidence in the fossil record, and the theory of evolution) just didn't hold when I applied the same tests for proof as I had for Christianity and God. I questioned more, and found more of what I considered gaps in scientific explanation. When I brought these questions to my husband, he reacted in anger. He berated and belittled me, and was very condescending. I was called stupid for questioning him. This is the same man that married me because of my IQ, and my "brilliance". The closer I stepped away from blind faith in science, the more abusive he became. Finally, it was more fists than words, and this from my pacifist! When he broke my arm and left me in another country alone with my small child, calling me stupid and laughing at me for looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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