Proton Electron Relationship

[Little Bang]

This may be a dumb question, does the existance of the proton neccessitate the existance of the electron? I think it is strange that the number of electrons is exactly equal to the number of protons at every event level of the universe.

[learnin to learn]

Very good question!!!! I am not quite sure, but I don't think protons neccessitate the existance of an electron. Because we would'nt have ions... would we? srry I don't think I was much help....

[Little Bang]

Actually you bring up a good point, if there were excess electrons or protons their charge would have made them migrate to a position as far apart from each other as possible.

[Qfwfq]

Good question, yes. An answer involves a look at the standard model and wouldn't be simple to fully eviscerate.

 

First of all, the electron is more fundamental than the proton so I might begin by inverting the question. The electron can be seen as the stable state of negatively charged leptons, a muon will quickly decay to an electron. The proton is a quite stable state for quarks, even a neutron isn't stable by itself. Of course, you could have a universe of positrons and antiprotons too, it could just as easily be overall neutral. Why one or the other is a long standing question that cosmology has been pondering.

 

Could the universe have settled into clouds of only leptons and no quarks? They would have ended up being nothing but neutrini and photons.

[Little Bang]

Good response Q, I am curious, is there a state of affairs that can create an electron?

[UncleAl]

Protons are baryons and electrons are leptons. There is no coupling. If you mix protons and electrons all you get is hydrogen atoms and then hydrogen molecules. They then sit there for all eternity ignoring each other.

 

An anti-proton is conjugate to a proton. Electric charge is conserved overall - but so are lepton generation number, baryon number, angular momentum, quark color, quark flavor, etc.

[infamous]

Good response Q, I am curious, is there a state of affairs that can create an electron?

Vacuum fluctuations produce electron positron pairs from photons but quickly annihilate to reform photons. Weather or not this annihiltion can be controlled enough to achieve sifficient separation between the electron positron pair to insure their survival is something I'm not sure of myself. The other example would be the period of symmetry breaking shortly after the Big Bang, that is if you hold to the standard model of creation. The theory holds that the electron had slightly better odds to survive than the positron.

[bumab]

Vacuum fluctuations produce electron positron pairs from photons but quickly annihilate to reform photons. Weather or not this annihiltion can be controlled enough to achieve sifficient separation between the electron positron pair to insure their survival is something I'm not sure of myself.

 

I believe this is the source of Hawking radiation from black holes. Not actually detected yet, but the theory is pretty strong.

 

The other example would be the period of symmetry breaking shortly after the Big Bang, that is if you hold to the standard model of creation. The theory holds that the electron had slightly better odds to survive than the positron.

 

String theory claims to have a good explanation for why this is, but I didn't quite catch it well enough yet to explain it. Anyone?

[infamous]

 

 

 

String theory claims to have a good explanation for why this is, but I didn't quite catch it well enough yet to explain it. Anyone?

 

I'd like to help you there bumab but I really don't buy into string theory yet. Gives me the feeling that science is ready to swallow just about anything even though the possibility of experimental evidence is very remote if not impossible.

[Little Bang]

UncleAl, your about as interesting as a sore thomb.

[infamous]

UncleAl, your about as enteresting as a sore thomb.

 

Careful there Little Bang; Uncle will probably correct your spelling for you, I wouldn't want to give him any excuses to punish you if I were in your shoes. But then again, I quess we all know what to expect from that quarter don't we. Whats the old saying, "condsider the source" if you know what I mean??

[UncleAl]

UncleAl, your about as interesting as a sore thomb.

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

The full parity Eotvos experiment is currently running in Huazhong University, PR China.

 

Attempting to discredit General Relativity by empirically falsifying one of its founding postulates is as interesting as anything gets with your clothes still on. By results time in mid-September it may be more interesting still.

 

What do you have in counterpoint? To criticize is to volunteer.

[Little Bang]

I'm to dense to get the point, how do I make a counterpoint. I fail to see the relevancy of the experiment to my original question.

[Qfwfq]

Never mind UA, with not much practice one can easily learn to ignore a sore thumb.

I am curious, is there a state of affairs that can create an electron?

Beta decay. The simplest example is a neutron decaying into proton, electron and a few other fragments thrown into the bargain.

 

Note: the neutron is also a baryon, like the proton.

 

Pair creation, as mentioned above. In favourable circumstances the electron and positron could even survive and shoot away from each other. The positron will soon anihiliate with some other electron though.

[somebody]

I am not a great physicist, but what i learned from my basic physics class was that protons and electros just exist in the nature, they just happen to be there from the start and they do not depend on each other. but i do not know what would happen if we have a net charge in nature with extra protons or electros!

[learnin to learn]

I am not a great physicist, but what i learned from my basic physics class was that protons and electros just exist in the nature, they just happen to be there from the start and they do not depend on each other. but i do not know what would happen if we have a net charge in nature with extra protons or electros!

 

So protons and electrons can't be created? what about neutrons, can they?

[Little Bang]

Look at a neutron star, all the protons get crushed into neutrons. LTL's last question about net charge of the universe. It could very well have a net charge but there would be no way for us to discovery if that were the true state of affairs.