The Bible and it's religion.

[sinewave]

Nah, 'christians' love to indulge in ‘resurrecting’ the Old Testament too much to ‘justify’ backward doctrines. That's where all the horrific ‘prophet-led’ wars of utter butchery occur, lots of sordid sex, lots of pseudo-‘history’ in the plot, and also lots of really intriguing pious draconian hate-filled ‘religious’ attitudes and outright racist bigotry abound.

 

It’s overall soap-opera and reinforcement of acts of mass stupidity are just too cool to leave behind, and the New Testament is mostly a tremendously boring read in comparison.

[sinewave]

God wouldn't have given me the ability to reason if he didn't want me using it.

-Will

 

 

No, he was just tempting you to think for yourself, ... heh, he's a stinker like that. :hihi:

[sinewave]

Sorry for the long response - now that you know the Bible is a 'big puzzle' you need to start 'restudying' it.

 

Christian circles (and other Bible-based religions) are unknowingly teaching what the Bible calls 'doctrines of demons'.

 

 

Nice inventive proposition, however, if the message were so important, and conversion so necessary, why make the entire thing aas clear as muddy water? :Alien:

[sinewave]

I think I have to muzzle those fingers!!!

 

:Alien: Teasing! You bring up some really good points but you know, some of 'your' ideas are distinctly 'Christian' in flavour!

 

You are right though, most present 'Christian' teaching is trash. People swallow it for a number of reasons but mostly because they are indoctrinated.

 

You cannot expect them to apply it to themselves - 'it's trash' - right? - most of the teachings make no sense at all, so how can they (or you or me) follow it???

 

Logical people reject present Christianity simply because it is illogical.

 

 

Makes sense.

[majordinkydau]

Come now let us reason together. These words from Isiah show God does not want a people who shut their minds off and blindly accept whatever they are told. But why with all our powers of reason and intelligence we can't make our lives work is what the bible begins to explain. In the garden Satan introduces the lie that God is holding out on us and does not want us to be equal with him. Every lie of sin uses this same line of reasoning, twisting the nature of God and his intentions towords us. In the parable of the talents the man who hid his says of the master, "I knew you were a hard man, reaping where you did not sow" Until we learn to read Gods word without our Dick Tracy decoder rings and simply let it speak to our hearts it will all go right over our heads. Today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts.

[sinewave]

Well, read these then:

 

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html

 

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html

 

Maybe I'm more open to it than you are?

[Southtown]

Yea, but didn't Christ say something like "he who has not sinned throw the first stone." The death penalty is against what Christ teaches, and I thought the whole point of Christianity is that Christ's new testament outweighs the hebrew scriptures. Thats why you don't have to sacrifice anymore, or ritual purification, and you can eat pork and all that other stuff.

-Will

Jesus was the only descendant of Abraham to keep the Hebrew law in it's entirety, and receive the covenant promise of salvation. This was the mystery of God's plan revealed in the New Testament, as well as Jesus', a perfect man, laying down His life as recompense for Adam's (the other perfect man) sin, thereby removing the curse from all mankind.

[sinewave]

If the Bible is read like a textbook - there would be nothing unusual about it, it would be allocated to the level of the ho-hum (which is the case in most Christian circles, some people actually fall asleep during sermons).

 

But the reason why we have to search the Bible for repeating information is because; God doesn't give his pearls to those who won't appreciate them, and only those who are truly interested will bother to take the time.

 

 

Or maybe one just looses themselves within a self-selecting interpretive tail-chase with a concordance, which ‘substantiates’ a bunch of self-referring beliefs and self-reinforcing 'insights', which otherwise mean and amount to nothing, except the 'meaning' which you personally award to them, according to your intellectual filters?

 

Is that too hard to face?

[Southtown]

Or maybe one just looses themselves within a self-selecting interpretive tail-chase with a concordance, which ‘substantiates’ a bunch of self-referring beliefs and self-reinforcing 'insights', which otherwise mean and amount to nothing, except the 'meaning' which you personally award to them, according to your intellectual filters?

 

Is that too hard to face?

You maybe right... Lot's of people tend to only consider things that they want to or that come from "like" sources. Can you provide a suggestion usurping concordances for scrutinizing Hebrew or Greek translations, for those who actually want to hone their views? A trustworthy dictionary or online translator perhaps? Maybe a non-biased one?

[sinewave]

I wouldn't dare recommend a book or 'religious' reference, as there are none that are not biased and delusional as far as I can see. Perhaps those who see that might consider admitting the possibility that 'truth' (the un-nameable) might be found within them, directly, and certainly within no book on offer, no matter how elaborate, nor any codified social practice of alleged holy purification?

 

Could it be so simple? No religious politics, no endless guilt, no exploitation, no feigned twisting of everything uttered in some archaic manuscript, no blaming others for things they haven't done, no one trying to bamboozle you and/or fleece you? No one telling you to conform, comply, or else suffer forever? Could that provide sufficiency, or are people just too afraid to take their own steps outside of the traditional formal structures? Has their religious conditioning inflicted on them so far made them inadequate and unable to cope with such a prospect? Dare they be so rash?

[majordinkydau]

In the time of Jesus, many scholors studied the scriptures and thought they had the messia figured out. In the gospels, only the old man who prophecied as Jesus was dedicated in the temple saw that he would suffer. The link on gnostics holds some level of truth but how do we become knowing. Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will make you free" but how do we learn these truths? In 1 John 3 it says "now are we the sons of God and it doesn't yet appear whgat we shall be but we know that when He shall appear we will be like him because WE WILL SEE HIM AS HE IS" I think our whole problem revolves around a warped view of God and Jesus. Sin in our lives blinds us to his nature, this is the death he warned Adam & Eve of in the garden. No they did not die physically when they disobeyed, they died spiritually, unable to see the thing of the spirit. God did not avoid them, they hid themselves from God. We lost our childlike trust and replaced it with our cynical reasoning.

[Buffy]

You maybe right... Lot's of people tend to only consider things that they want to or that come from "like" sources. Can you provide a suggestion usurping concordances for scrutinizing Hebrew or Greek translations, for those who actually want to hone their views? A trustworthy dictionary or online translator perhaps? Maybe a non-biased one?

I'm a big fan of Robert Alter, who is a professor at Berkeley that I took several classes from when I was there. His specialty is comparative literature, but he is a world renowned expert on Hebrew and translations of the Old Testament. Here are some of his books you might find interesting:

 

The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary

Genesis: Translation and Commentary

The David Story: A Translation with Commentary of 1 and 2 Samuel

On Biblical Narrative

The Art of Biblical Narrative

Beyond King James: Modern English Translations of the Hebrew Bible) (article in Commentary Magazine)

 

Enjoy,

Buffy

[jerryo]

...correct me if i am wrong,

Part 1:

 

Matthew 4:17 - " From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. "

 

..if something is 'at hand' ,i take that to mean its right in front of my face :rant:

 

this earth borders on a miracle..

 

Modern Christianity has adopted a seemingly nihilistic slant that things are gonna get better in another life.

Modern religion is a mess and very shallow.

 

 

Part 2:

 

John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

...to know who you are is to know the 'truth'

 

Who am I in all this life and exsistance is the question :eek:

 

...if you answer yourself...see a doctor!

 

..if you understand the idea in the question..you are free

 

..its very old philosophy and the egos only true question

[Guest loarevalo]

:eek: There were only 'twelve' apostles - there are no more.

 

There is only 'one' church but that can only come into it's own when there is 'one' consistent gospel.

 

After Paul died, he said that 'wolves' would come into the church and 'divide' the believers (a denomination is a 'division') - and he also said that 'men from within' would 'draw away' disciples 'after themselves'. What Paul prophesied happened not long after he was killed.

 

In the end times Paul's gospel will be re-established and 'preached in all the world'.

 

I agree entirely with you! :rant:

But I have to ask you: How can we recognize THE church when it's re-established? I believe we're already in the end times, we live in the sixth seal, when natural disasters will abound - that I think is already happening and will only get worse.

 

Have you considered that perhaps the church has already been re-established, and you just don't know about it, or it passed you by? How would one know?

[jerryo]

if jesus returns with his band of angels from the great beyond and the dead begin to rise;

 

2 things are gonna occur;

 

air traffic control is gonna be fried due to angelic congestion,

 

...and

 

with billions of skeletons crawling out of graves

george w bush better come up with a new plan for social security and fast,

these dead people are gona need some sort of income to survive

they have'nt eaten in a while.

 

Haaaaaaaaaaa !! :rant:

[Guest loarevalo]

:rant: There were only 'twelve' apostles - there are no more.

 

We agree in that after the first century there were no apostles. But if there weren't anymore it wasn't because there was no need for them. We learn from Acts 1:21-26 of the procedure the twelve took to fill the vacancy left by Judas. We can assume therefore that as the apostles died or vacancies were left "...must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection" (Acts 1:22). Therefore if there were no more apostles after the early Christians, it may well be because the apostles were killed too fast, and there was no time to fill the vacancies - the persecution was that severe; as we know, the church as Christ established it did not survive the persecution.

 

If there was to be some apostle after this, he would need to call himself to that position - or God would have to call him to this. Anyhow, that new apostle would need be "a witness ...of his resurrection" of Jesus Christ. Like Paul, any new apostle would need to receive that same witness that the original twelve received.

[Guest loarevalo]

if jesus returns with his band of angels from the great beyond and the dead begin to rise;

...

with billions of skeletons crawling out of graves

george w bush better come up with a new plan for social security and fast,

these dead people are gona need some sort of income to survive

they have'nt eaten in a while.

:rant: HAHAHA!