arissa Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 The mind has always fasinated me but sometimes when I read the news, stories like this really touch me. As a parent I could not imagine what would make another parent do such a thing. At the same time having other kids in the house it really makes me curious why she would continue to get pregnant and then kill her babies. What happens to a parents mind to do such a thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErlyRisa Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 The mind has always fasinated me but sometimes when I read the news, stories like this really touch me. As a parent I could not imagine what would make another parent do such a thing. At the same time having other kids in the house it really makes me curious why she would continue to get pregnant and then kill her babies. What happens to a parents mind to do such a thing? Not all of us are simple, normally we are supposed too see "cute" , and be animalistic: and think that I am supposed to pass on my "mechanical" lineage... some of us can't stand mechanics:if what we create just looks like a bag of meat with those empty soulless eyes, we cannot handle it....to see that what you have created is nothing more than the robot that you are in yourself: - to overt such thinking:_ kill that which looks like a stupid version of me - that is nothing more than an energy burden. --_ It's usually the "stupid" -> ie. those that live by thier "emotions" that are the best "rearers" - the logical, and material-ly burdened (which are also the most logical thinkers) - will - use, basic logic, to get rid of the burden that surmises REAL emotion and REAL pain ... rather than being another consumer fat can reproducing oven... that is the typical standard for a normal human.--AKA Animal...nothing more than an oven - akin to a floppy drive - no emotion - just a "commonality" reaction... copy baby:/now baby:/anotherone.overpopulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Not all of us are simple, normally we are supposed too see "cute" , and be animalistic: and think that I am supposed to pass on my "mechanical" lineage... some of us can't stand mechanics: if what we create just looks like a bag of meat with those empty soulless eyes, we cannot handle it. ...to see that what you have created is nothing more than the robot that you are in yourself: - to overt such thinking:_ kill that which looks like a stupid version of me - that is nothing more than an energy burden. --_ It's usually the "stupid" -> ie. those that live by thier "emotions" that are the best "rearers" - the logical, and material-ly burdened (which are also the most logical thinkers) - will - use, basic logic, to get rid of the burden that surmises REAL emotion and REAL pain ... rather than being another consumer fat can reproducing oven... that is the typical standard for a normal human.--AKA Animal...nothing more than an oven - akin to a floppy drive - no emotion - just a "commonality" reaction... copy baby:/now baby:/anotherone.overpopulation. You are one sad & sick SOB. Go away. ErlyRisa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Mental illness explains some actions like this, of course. But florid psychosis is unlikely over such a long period of time. There are some cases when exisiting understanding of mental illness cannot explain the unimaginable actions of others. I believe that most destructive acts are accomplished in an attempt to assuage the wounds in our own hearts. People will go to nearly any length to relieve psychic pain that they can't get away from. Some people are so broken as to have traveled deep into a path of selfishness that ends with hurting a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclogite Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I believe that most destructive acts are accomplished in an attempt to assuage the wounds in our own hearts. People will go to nearly any length to relieve psychic pain that they can't get away from. Some people are so broken as to have traveled deep into a path of selfishness that ends with hurting a lot of people.And if the level of hurt, as is likely, is very much deeper than any that we experience, it will be close to impossible to empathise with their situation. It is then a tragedy for perpetrator and victim alike. We should just be grateful we have never had to go to that place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainMan Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 What happens to a parents mind to do such a thing?This is one of those questions that you don't want to hear someone answer to where it makes sense. All I know is that women like that shouldn't be breeding, and our society is way too lax in correcting behaviour that we know will lead to the injuries and deaths of the innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclogite Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 All I know is that women like that shouldn't be breeding, and our society is way too lax in correcting behaviour that we know will lead to the injuries and deaths of the innocent. This suggests several points to me: 1. The phrase "women like that" suggests you are in danger of stereotyping. That can be reassuring from the clarity it appears to bring, but rarely helps in developing a solution. 2. Which society do you mean by "our society"? This is an international forum with members from a variety of cultures, likely treating such situations and persons in different ways. 3. "Way too laxi in correctint behaviour" and "shouldn't be breeding", suggest you favour a punitive and controlling approach to persons who, in your judgement, fail to meet the standards of decent people. I worry that reflects a simplistic approach that could cause more harm than good. 4. Might it not be better to seek to identify persons whose circumstances and natural insecurities may render them a risk to themselves and others, then seek to provide ways of supporting them and developing them. A hand raised in friendship is surely better than one raised in prescriptive anger. sanctus and RainMan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErlyRisa Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Mental illness explains some actions like this, of course. But florid psychosis is unlikely over such a long period of time. There are some cases when exisiting understanding of mental illness cannot explain the unimaginable actions of others. I believe that most destructive acts are accomplished in an attempt to assuage the wounds in our own hearts. People will go to nearly any length to relieve psychic pain that they can't get away from. Some people are so broken as to have traveled deep into a path of selfishness that ends with hurting a lot of people. I would take the word selfish out... for in effect US - here ... conversing, is in effect the REAL selfishness. ?? Have you spoken too the person, did you live thier life from the start -> I would bet you anyone of you speaking and conversing pyschobable, are in effect more than capable and would at a whim commit the same "offence" -> yet I would bet that the versed would commit even WORSE offence - killing by number - and not have the getgo too be able to commit when asked - to take out thier own... Rather, the real animal is that which observes the other, and states, that it is an animal... hence pre-occupying itself (as the animal that it is) with it's animal instinct - TOO observe that it is NOT as it SHOULD be. A Human: or , Intelligent Species, would: observe placement of itself in the situation that has been procured for it, in the eyes of another,. should, and surmise that I am lucky that I did not have to live through that (or, state that I would like to live through that). This is complicated banter for you humans to comprehend, and I don't expect you too understand. I can be contact somewhere near Proxima Centauri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainMan Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) This suggests several points to me: 1. The phrase "women like that" suggests you are in danger of stereotyping. That can be reassuring from the clarity it appears to bring, but rarely helps in developing a solution. 2. Which society do you mean by "our society"? This is an international forum with members from a variety of cultures, likely treating such situations and persons in different ways. 3. "Way too laxi in correctint behaviour" and "shouldn't be breeding", suggest you favour a punitive and controlling approach to persons who, in your judgement, fail to meet the standards of decent people. I worry that reflects a simplistic approach that could cause more harm than good. 4. Might it not be better to seek to identify persons whose circumstances and natural insecurities may render them a risk to themselves and others, then seek to provide ways of supporting them and developing them. A hand raised in friendship is surely better than one raised in prescriptive anger. I'll have to make this quick. When it comes to social issues I lean very heavily towards socialism. My reasons for this are not borne of political ideologies or religious affiliations. They are borne of real life experiences through 2 decades of adulthood that have shown me that most people, by and large, are not capable of making productive decisions that concern their own lives......all on their own. They need the government, or scientists, or religious leaders to tell them how they should feel, how they should act and how they should view important social topics. They will drill it into peoples heads, then finish it off by saying "But of course, the choice is yours". People market ideals the same way they market the products that we buy. The techniques are the same, and to say that this isn't true and that people who believe this take it way too seriously.......is to delude oneself. I don't like the way America has turned out, but that isn't going to stop me from seeing things the way they are. I don't like the fact that socialism seems to be only viable option of leading Americans but, really, we have no one but ourselves to blame for this. Take a good hard look at how much we depend on the government for, and then cry about government intrusion. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want to be able to say that women who have a history of, or have mannerisms consistent with, mental illness have the choice to do what they want with their bodies because it would be too intrusive on their personal rights to "presume" something that should be common sense. That that woman has no business whatsoever having kids. We tiptoe around around the hard issues when we should be staring them down and putting them in their place. If we did that, then our government and the rest of the world would have more respect for us. Edited May 15, 2014 by RainMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 ...I would bet you anyone of you speaking and conversing pyschobable, ... This is complicated banter for you humans to comprehend, and I don't expect you too understand. I can be contact somewhere near Proxima Centauri. I would take psychobabble over unadulterated bullshit any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 ...most people, by and large, are not capable of making productive decisions that concern their own lives......all on their own. They need the government, or scientists, or religious leaders to tell them how they should feel, how they should act and how they should view important social topics. Who do you think make up government, the scientific community, or religious leadership? People. It is always curious to me when people lose trust in their fellow citizens to make decisions for themselves, but don't seem to see that those in power are no more or less human than the people whose lives they "should" be running. If I cannot be trusted to make decisions about my own life, what makes me qualified to run yours, simply because I got elected? We will never be able to create total safety. And research reaffirms that we should not be seeking total safety, that too little risk taking ruins our lives. There will always be people who do horrible things the rest of us decry. That is life, in all its difficult and messy and beautiful and hurtful glory. RainMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 The mind has always fasinated me but sometimes when I read the news, stories like this really touch me.Your 15 Apr 2014 link is broken, and appears not to have been archived. a google search of “Megan Huntsman” finds lots of articles about her killing of 6 or 7 of her newborn children. As a parent I could not imagine what would make another parent do such a thing.I’m a parent and grandparent, and I can imagine many reasons and impulses for such killings, but I don’t like such imaginings – an important distinction, I think, that I think applies to emotionally ordinary but rational people. At the same time having other kids in the house it really makes me curious why she would continue to get pregnant and then kill her babies. What happens to a parents mind to do such a thing?According to psychologist such as Case Western’s Philipp Resnick, quoted in The Daily Beast’s 17 Apr 2014 article The Psychology of Mothers Who Kill Their Children, Huntsman’s case – what Resnick categorizes as “repeated neonaticide” – is uncommon, but not unprecedented. Mental illness explains some actions like this, of course. But florid psychosis is unlikely over such a long period of time.Resnick agrees. There are some cases when exisiting understanding of mental illness cannot explain the unimaginable actions of others.Because of court-ordered confidentiality, I doubt much good-quality psychological study of Huntsman will be available for several years. When it is, however, I doubt her behavior will be beyond understanding. I think it’s revealing to consider that, in other cultures, especially centuries in the past, quoting Laila Williamson, “Infanticide has been practiced on every continent and by people on every level of cultural complexity, from hunter gatherers to high civilizations, including our own ancestors. Rather than being an exception, then, it has been the rule.” It’s conceivable that Huntsman is not, profoundly abnormal in psychiatric sense, but rather has been living in circumstances profoundly abnormal for our culture. From another perspective, we can reason that Huntsman didn’t want to have children, but did not understand how to, was unwilling, or was prevented, from using contraception. Her neonaticide was, in effect, a form or birth control, one that is typical of circumstances in which children are not wanted, women are sexually available, and contraception or abortion is not available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErlyRisa Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I would take psychobabble over unadulterated bullshit any day.hmm, thankyou: I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainMan Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 There will always be people who do horrible things the rest of us decry. That is life, in all its difficult and messy and beautiful and hurtful glory. Yeah........I know. It's just that I get tired of seeing it. I get in a mood sometimes where I would be willing to accept anything that would make the worst of the worst just go away. I just feel that humanity is wasting so much of its potential by letting people do what they will for the sake of personal freedoms. It seems as if with each generational pass, all of these different "experiments" regarding different lifestyle options, choices and freedoms, we are putting ourselves on a lower vibration so to speak. As if we're devolving somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I just feel that humanity is wasting so much of its potential by letting people do what they will for the sake of personal freedoms.RainMan, how does your sentiment relate to Megan Huntsman’s repeated neonaticide? She was not allowed to kill her newborn children – she kept her pregnancies and killing secret. After the remains of her newborns were discovered, she was arrested, and will likely spend the rest of her life in prison for her actions. If you are expressing a general sentiment about humanity, I think you have drawn a profoundly wrong conclusion. History and best political theory, such as those founding liberal constitutional republican democracies such as the United States, conclude that human potential is best maximized by maximizing personal freedom – in short, letting people do what they will allows them to do not only the worst, but the best, they can. The general exception to such liberalism is that people should not be at liberty to restrict others’ liberty – for example, one cannot legitimately claim a right to murder or enslave. It seems as if with each generational pass, all of these different "experiments" regarding different lifestyle options, choices and freedoms, we are putting ourselves on a lower vibration so to speak. As if we're devolving somehow.This sentiment – nostalgia strikes me as a good term for it – is not supported by scientific data, which shows that most objective measures of social ill, such as violent crime, property crime, and neonaticide rates, have substantially decreased on a scale of the last thousand, hundred, an ten years, and are continuing to decrease in countries with liberal democratic governments. Society is changing – evolving – but appears to me to be doing so in positive direction. The ability for people to even talk about “vibrations”, and be understood by people outside of esoteric, is recent. The very idea of spiritual vibrations is historically modern, appearing ca 1870 in the writing and conversations of Helena Blavatsky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainMan Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 RainMan, how does your sentiment relate to Megan Huntsman’s repeated neonaticide? She was not allowed to kill her newborn children – she kept her pregnancies and killing secret. Everything else about your response to mine notwithstanding for the time being, (I do plan on getting back to it) how on earth does a woman have 7 babies without anyone, not even the father(s), knowing about it? Please explain to me how someone can be pregnant for a total of close to 2 years of their life with absolutely no one knowing about this? It boggles my mind that in a society as advanced as ours, we can permit 7 newborns to be brought into this world unnoticed and then killed. That's about the most barbaric and uncivilised thing I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Everything else about your response to mine notwithstanding for the time being, (I do plan on getting back to it) how on earth does a woman have 7 babies without anyone, not even the father(s), knowing about it? Please explain to me how someone can be pregnant for a total of close to 2 years of their life with absolutely no one knowing about this? It boggles my mind that in a society as advanced as ours, we can permit 7 newborns to be brought into this world unnoticed and then killed. That's about the most barbaric and uncivilised thing I can think of. Your argument to personal incredulity is a logical fallacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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