How can telepathy be possible in perspective of science?

[blazer2000x]

By the way, there is a simple test for telepathy. Get three (or four if you've done the test before and wish to test it further) cards, just from an ordinary playing deck. Find a very close friend or relative or someone you have known for a very long time. Both of you look at the cards before they are shuffled. Shuffle the three or four cards and place them face-down on the table. The person that shuffled the cards will look at the order and not the other person, then focus on the order, this part is the most difficult and important. Look at the first card. In your mind, write the number on the card, and then push that image toward the other person. Do this with the second card as well and then the third. DO NOT REPEAT THIS STEP MORE THAN ONCE. Doing so creates confusion and results in failure almost all the time, trust me. It is very important to not let even a trace of another thoughtenter your mind. The other person must "listen" carefully. If done correctly they receive a vague impression of the cards order. I have not been on the recieving end too often, but it's kind of like you have to listen to the first order that pops into your head.

[blazer2000x]

I have tried this test four times in a row, and I'm not sure how many sets of four I've tried but it usually doesn't work the first and maybe second times, and then works perfectly after that. That's an odd of 6x6x6x6 against one it being chance. And more than once. Pretty impresive. (I tried the test with my sister)

[Queso]

that is merely probability, and the ego of the human mind. how great man feels when he gets something right, especially in the realm of the almost super supernatural.

[Turtle]

___Try this: Above I predicted Buffys imminent return. As I have said, I believe I have telepathic senses, & I had to post as I sensed the strongest impression to "just do it". As we have discussed the remote viewing projects in this topic, I note that even proponents don't claim an exact picture (idetic) or impression.

___So let's break my strong impression into 2 components, the subject & action;Buffy the subject, return of long absent member the action. While I may have missed the subject, is it possible FreeThinker affirms my impression of one long absent returned? :eek:

[blazer2000x]

that is merely probability, and the ego of the human mind. how great man feels when he gets something right, especially in the realm of the almost super supernatural.

 

Maybe you misunderstood me. I kind of already knew how to do this, and I was explaining it to my sister, I had three cards from the same deck (it was my deck, so I know they weren't marked) The goal is to get it four times in a row, that completes one test. If you miss one, you start over. The first time I tried it, she got the order backwards, the second time she got two of them mixed up. The third time, she got it right, then again, and again, and all four times. I was glad it had worked, but I still thought it had been a fluke (although the chances are 1296 to 1). So I tried it again, it was much easier this time, and she got it four times in a row again. Then I tried it with our friend that was there, it took her I think five tries before she got it, but then she got it four times in a row. I wanted to stop then, but my sister eventually talked me into trying again. And she got it right away all four times.

Now, let me tell you how much chance could have been involved. To guess the order of 3 cards, you have 3!. That's 6. If you have 4 sets of 3 you have 6x6x6x6, which equals 1296. So for one test succeding you have the odds of 1296 to 1. Now she got three tests in a row without missing any. (although she had a small break when I tried it with my friend, she didn't miss any after the break) This means that the odds of her succeding in that were 6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x or 2,176,782,336 to 1. According to chance, that shouldn't happen, or if it did, it would most likely be a once-in-a-lifetime event. But these results were and still are easily duplicated, every time we try it's the same thing, one or two failures, and then it works perfectly until we stop, even if we go on for almost half an hour, not one miss.

Don't believe me? I don't really care, because I don't quite believe it myself yet. However I have noticed it works with anyone, so if you were here I could show you that you could "hear" the pattern yourself... But that doesn't matter, just try it yourself. Find someone your very close to and try it with them. I already explained how. It will probably take you a while to get used to it, but it shouldn't take too long. (you'll definetly never get it if you're in the frame of mind that it's impossible though it very well may be).

hmmm... that post was kind of long, I wonder if anyone will actually read it...

[blazer2000x]

___Try this: Above I predicted Buffys imminent return. As I have said, I believe I have telepathic senses, & I had to post as I sensed the strongest impression to "just do it". As we have discussed the remote viewing projects in this topic, I note that even proponents don't claim an exact picture (idetic) or impression.

___So let's break my strong impression into 2 components, the subject & action;Buffy the subject, return of long absent member the action. While I may have missed the subject, is it possible FreeThinker affirms my impression of one long absent returned? :eek:

 

First of all, I believe IF telepathy exists, most likely almost all people would have it, just like normal senses.

But I highly doubt this constitutes as an accurate test, it is simply more probable that someone would return then that they wouldn't.

By this logic, I can predict it will rain some time this week. If it did I could say I had telepathic powers because there was a chance it may not have. :eek:

However I believe that telepathic powers have nothing to do with predicting the future. I may believe in what can be explained shadily by pseudoscience, but telling the future doesn't even have that going for it!

[DAK]

<However I believe that telepathic powers have nothing to do with predicting the future>

 

Agreed... if people are a [partial] manifestation of energy fields one could easily see that they are 'connected' in some cases and telepathy is no longer a strange idea. This would have nothing to do with the future however.

 

DAK

[Turtle]

___It does if my impressions' source is a telepathic connection to Freethinker.

 

___We may agree he is strong willed, & I claim a sensitivity. I reported what I sensed in support of my contention; before the fact. In terms of reproducability, this is past & so no reproduction is possible. If I receive similar strong impressions & don't report them, then that is a vacuous footing to later claim it happened.

___You went from arguing about the possibility at all, assumed it true, but then argued my eexperience is not one such.

[Happeh]

First of all, I believe IF telepathy exists, most likely almost all people would have it, just like normal senses.

 

They do

 

However I believe that telepathic powers have nothing to do with predicting the future. I may believe in what can be explained shadily by pseudoscience, but telling the future doesn't even have that going for it!

 

They don't have anything to do with telepathy. It is more like they are associated with telepathy.

 

Future prediction does not have to be the big deal that it is. A person who is described as having oracular powers can simply be a person with a head for facts and data analysis. It is easy to predict trends if you have the necessary data and the time to watch them. Back in the old times, they didn't have phrases like data analysis. So they called those people oracles.

 

Don't get me wrong though. There are oracles. People who predict the future. I am kind of conflicted on if they tell the future or if they are just a speakerphone. Someone is telling them the future, then they tell the rest of us.

[Happeh]

<However I believe that telepathic powers have nothing to do with predicting the future>

 

Agreed... if people are a [partial] manifestation of energy fields one could easily see that they are 'connected' in some cases and telepathy is no longer a strange idea. This would have nothing to do with the future however.

 

DAK

 

Sure people have energy, "are partial energy fields".

[Happeh]

___Excellant! Now maybe as we have progressed, it's time to stand on our heads. Figuratively and/or literally. I mean to say let's work the problem in reverse;pick a frequency/power range C1ay you think is up to the task & then look for the appropriate structure.

___I note you qualified with "I hardly think" & so we still have some footing. In addition, I point out that a cavity magnetron from a microwave is only about 1" in diameter and maybe 3" long, and that from a 750Watt oven. Yet further, before the cavity magnetron's invention, microwaves were generated by large Klystron tubes many feet long in some cases. The point is, the brain may yet harbor structures undiscovered analagous to the variable microwave producing forms. :P

 

You are basing your willingness to believe in telepathy on whether or not someone can scientifically prove it is possible with antennas etc. You are wasting your time. Why do you have to prove it is possible in order to believe in it?

 

What if it works according to some principle science has not discovered? If it is not electromagnetic, all this talk of antenna's is a waste of time. Why not spend time on something useful. Does telepathy happen according to the people around you? If they say yes and you are the only one saying no, maybe they know something you don't. Just because they cannot pull out a book explaining in detail how telepathy occurs according to science does not mean that telepathy is impossible.

[alxian]

its a heck of alot cheaper than a commercial at half time.

 

someone tells the future, people takes steps to make it happens and others to stop it from happening. the focus though is pointed toward a goal. more often than not the goal is achieved.

 

the self fulfilling prophecy.

[infamous]

___String theorists have no problem using up some of those extra dimensions for such phenomena as telepathy, at least according to Michio Kaku. ;)

Absolutely Turtle, and what about the interest that the U.S. and the Soviet Union have invested in the technique called Remote Viewing. If this is just some childish fantasy, why are these governments spending time and money investigating, and I might add with some significant success, this unusual phenomenon. Check out this link:

 

http://www.rense.com/general/enchilada.htm

[blazer2000x]

Well, it sure has been a long time since I've been here, and I have homeowrk to finish, so I'll make this quick. Lack of evidence for is not evidence against, so there's a plus for telepathy. However, inconclusive studies and records of paranormal events are not evidence for. Simple logic dictates this. Ex: A UFO is thought to be an alien space craft. An alien space craft is assumed to contain an alien. I don't know what that thing I saw fly by was. So I saw an alien.

It may not be the best example, but my point is we have no idea exactly what telepathy is to begin with, just that two or more brains can somehow "connect". I think that's the main problem with hundreds of things in science, until you know exactly what your trying to prove, you shouldn't even try.

If you believe it's true, then use it. Show your friends how to use it. If someone else chooses not to believe it, that's not your problem. If you think you are trying to better the world and science by discovering this, well, that's your opinion. I think this world would be a terrible place if people found how easy it is to manipulate others using there mind. But maybe you think defferently.

There is no proof for telepathy, only evidence. Yet nature constantly has shown it dosn't care whether or not we understand something. And likewise, lack of prood will not stop it from drawing some undismissable attention as an unexplained realm. Ok, this has gotten too long. bye.

[Eclogite]

Lack of evidence for is not evidence against, so there's a plus for telepathy.

Ah, the old "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" argument. I've used it myself many times, inappropriately. In most applications it is at best misleading and at worst simply wrong.

 

There is an implied logical twist in the concept that is quite unscientific. Thus:

Stated: There is not evidence that this phenomenom exists.

Stated: This does not demonstrate that the phenomenom does not exist.

Implied: Therefore, this is evidence that it does.

 

To which one must return a loud and definitve "No, it doe not."

 

There is no evidence for small leprachauns, wearing tweed jackets, living at the bottom of my garden. The absence of evidence is as overwhelming as that relating to telepathy. Surely, then, they are there. (After all everybody knows that leprechauns do not like to be seen, so the persistent failure to spot any in my garden, is additional proof that they are there.)

 

I'm afraid, in most cases, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

[Nad]

I can read minds

I'm a skeptical person, and I know that if someone else said this, I wouldn't believe them... so I'll say right now that I don't expect anyone to, nor do I care if anyone believes me.

Back to what I was saying... It usaually happens when two conditions are met: the person I'm talking to is concentrating on a single thought, and I am only trying with minimal effort to find that thought. Generally speaking, the longer and harder I try the less likely I am to 'read their mind', which makes it very difficult for me to choose to do this when I really want to. For that reason it's not a particularily useful skill.

 

The main reason that I do not dismiss what I can do as coincidence is that the easiest and most common thought for me to read is numbers. I'm not one of those people who thinks that saying things at the same time as my mother or knowing when their best friend is in a bad mood is telepathy. I won't even believe that being able to guess a number from 1-10 is convincing. I mind-read big numbers. I've read 2, 3,... up to 9 digits before.

 

Since I'm a student, I have a lot of experience doing this with test scores. I'll ask someone what mark they got and it won't matter if they tell me or not- they're forced to concentrate on their mark and I'll usually be able to recieve that thought. It doesn't matter if I know the person or their usual marks, or if I'm in the class and saw the test, or weather they've done exceptionally well or terrible. I can do the "I'm thinking of a number betweer 1 and 100" and the "guess which fruit/animal/whatever I'm thinking of" thing. I can find peoples locker combinations this way. The one incident I had reading a 9-digit number was from a complete stranger pulling a door-prize ticket.

 

As both a septical person and a lover of science, I'm very interested in knowing exaclty how this would work from a scientific standpoint. I can neither think of my 'telepathy' as a number of coincidences, nor can I understand exactly how it works... which makes me pretty curious about it. I've read over half the pages in this topic and intend to continue to read any further posts. :hihi:

So there's my worthless addition to this topic that doesn't answer any questions or help prove anything. I hope that doesn't get me beaten up around here :hihi:

[alxian]

and I am only trying with minimal effort to find that thought.

 

 

this part sells me utterly.

 

many of the things i am best at i'm best at when giving them the least amount of conscious effort. the subconscious effort works best without oversight.

 

such things as instinct (and other weird phenomenon) etc in the cerbellum and neo cerebellum... making me wonder if our true potential escapes us, that the thinking mind (the voice you control in your head), the 'who' that we think of ourselves as being isn't the old brain while the new brain operates on a higher plain we have no access to. that that evolved consciouness is so new (relatively speaking) that in most cases the old human brain keeps control, it asserts itself in the form of reflexes and instincts esp etc. could there be a way to exercize it to achieve a sort of maximum potential? (that being the full repetoir of all known and theoretical weird brain powers at our command?)