Survival Wagon Idea - Recreation Or Reality TV

[Buffy]

anyone up to a late Summer wagon race through Gifford Pinchot National Forest? :smilingsun:

With ratings for Survivor way down, maybe Mark Burnett will be more receptive to your idea now... :)

 

I'll go tally the votes, :smilingsun:

Buffy

[Racoon]

:smilingsun: :)

 

anyone up to a late Summer wagon race through Gifford Pinchot National Forest?

 

Slow and steady wins the wagon race.

 

:dogwalk: :angry: :soccer: :smilingsun: :crash:

[freeztar]

What a cool thread!

What's the status of the wagon Turtle?

 

It reminds me of a good friend who now lives in Alaska, in a remote cabin. He lives about 5 miles from town (small town, can't remember the name) and the only way to town is via an ATV path. He rides a bicycle with a trailer attached to the back. He rides to the ocean everyday and fishes with a net while wading. It's not really a survival wagon for him because he's in a good place already. I don't know exactly what he carries in it, besides fish and net (and probably a rifle), but I do know that he gets strange looks from the 4-wheelin folks passing along the trail. :)

 

Suggestions for items to add:

Fishing net

Fishing pole (collapsible preferred)

Iodine tablets (or bleach)

Metal File (for sharpening the machete)

[Turtle]

What a cool thread!

What's the status of the wagon Turtle?

 

...

Suggestions for items to add:

Fishing net

Fishing pole (collapsible preferred)

Iodine tablets (or bleach)

Metal File (for sharpening the machete)

 

the wagon is empty as i use it once a week to haul the trash down to the pickup spot. i recently added some cut-off plastic milkcrates underneath & between the wheels to hold the deep-cell battery and some of the heavy weatherproof gear. i did gain some space by this, but mainly i wanted the battery where it wouldn't leak & corrode the wagon as well as to lower the wagon's center of gravity. all the other gear is laying about & all can be put together as a kit in a couple of hours.

 

i have a file in the kit, but no fishing gear or bleach. will add some hooks, make a pole when I need it, and add small bottle of bleach for when i can't boil my water.

 

here's the best source i've found yet to purchase your wagon(s) and wagon parts. >> wagons from Northern Tool + Equipment

 

the race will include some required stops/obstacles and there is a $100 prize for first place. we need at least 2 other teams besides mine before i firmly commit and start solidifying the details. tentatively, the start & finish is Sunset Falls State Park on the forest's Western boundary & making a circuit along roads FR#41 , FR #4220 & FR #42. :) :lol:

 

PS a cursory check of the map finds this circuit about 27 miles long.

[freeztar]

the wagon is empty as i use it once a week to haul the trash down to the pickup spot. i recently added some cut-off plastic milkcrates underneath & between the wheels to hold the deep-cell battery and some of the heavy weatherproof gear. i did gain some space by this, but mainly i wanted the battery where it wouldn't leak & corrode the wagon as well as to lower the wagon's center of gravity. all the other gear is laying about & all can be put together as a kit in a couple of hours.

 

i have a file in the kit, but no fishing gear or bleach. will add some hooks, make a pole when I need it, and add small bottle of bleach for when i can't boil my water.

 

here's the best source i've found yet to purchase your wagon(s) and wagon parts. >> wagons from Northern Tool + Equipment

 

the race will include some required stops/obstacles and there is a $100 prize for first place. we need at least 2 other teams besides mine before i firmly commit and start solidifying the details. tentatively, the start & finish is Sunset Falls State Park on the forest's Western boundary & making a circuit along roads FR#41 , FR #4220 & FR #42. :cup:

 

PS a cursory check of the map finds this circuit about 27 miles long.

 

If I still lived in WA, the race would be on! It still might be, but it wouldn't be for quite a while for me, unfortunately.

 

I'll ponder this wagon idea some more and see if I can come up with anything. My spending budget is very small. :(

[Turtle]

If I still lived in WA, the race would be on! It still might be, but it wouldn't be for quite a while for me, unfortunately.

 

I'll ponder this wagon idea some more and see if I can come up with anything. My spending budget is very small. :(

 

no worries. :D it has taken me several years to put things as they are & i will express great surprise if any enties other than myself show up this first year.

 

on the better hand, i am anxious for any input on setting up rules, requirements, entry fees, contests, etcetera. i was thinking of crossing over a 2 to 3 foot log as an obstacle contest?

 

anyway, the route i chose has major elevation changes with some steep inclines so i better get busy on designing a brake 'cause we're gonna need it! :eek: :smart:

[Turtle]

Time to start planning the 2nd Great Independence Day Handcart & Wagon Rally/Race through Gifford Pinchot National Forest. Tentative 3 day ~30 mile mountain rally on or about July 4th 2008.

 

Map & other stuff to follow. :)

 

PS Maps added. Yellow line is proposed route & measured 28 miles using Google Earth ruler.

[Turtle]

Perspective view looking North across course terrain. Strato-volcanoes Adams, Rainier, & St. Helens marked. :P :P :):)

[Turtle]

Originally I bought a 750 Watt electric hot-plate to cook with, but the 800 Watt inverter chokes on it. Plan B, a 380 Watt rice-cooker. I figure to put sand in it to use it as a tent heater when not using it to cook. Here's a vid of the system check.

 

YouTube - Camp Cookin' Electric Style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVO6IP251qU

[Moontanman]

Time to start planning the 2nd Great Independence Day Handcart & Wagon Rally/Race through Gifford Pinchot National Forest. Tentative 3 day ~30 mile mountain rally on or about July 4th 2008.

 

Map & other stuff to follow.

 

PS Maps added. Yellow line is proposed route & measured 28 miles using Google Earth ruler.

 

Can I make a suggestion? In many developing countries they use human powered carts to carry very heavy loads, these carts are all two wheeled. wheels are usually as large as car tires to make them easier to pull and the pull is done by the operator pushing on a bar connected to the cart by long ples. this set up allows the weight to be balanced on the two wheels and if you have to slow it down you just drop the bar and it digs into the ground. This type of cart has been in use for centurys. these guys use them everyday of thier lives from childhood, could be they have hit on the optimal way to do this.

[Turtle]

Can I make a suggestion? In many developing countries they use human powered carts to carry very heavy loads, these carts are all two wheeled. wheels are usually as large as car tires to make them easier to pull and the pull is done by the operator pushing on a bar connected to the cart by long ples. this set up allows the weight to be balanced on the two wheels and if you have to slow it down you just drop the bar and it digs into the ground. This type of cart has been in use for centurys. these guys use them everyday of thier lives from childhood, could be they have hit on the optimal way to do this.

 

Agreed. I settled for what the circumstances allowed. Here's an interesting story of the Mormans' use of handcarts; I thought I posted it in the thread but I don't find it on review.

 

Whatever style you choose, by all means get yourself a human powered wheeled cart or wagon and get campin' in style. Race ya!!

 

Outfitting

Emigrants departed from an English port (generally Liverpool) and travelled by ship to New York or Boston, then by railroad to Iowa City, Iowa, the western terminus of the rail line, where they would be outfitted with handcarts and other supplies.[7]

 

Built to Young's design, the handcarts resembled a large wheelbarrow, with two wheels five feet (1.5 m) in diameter and a single axle four and 1/2 feet (1.4 m) wide, and weighing 60 pounds (27 kg). Running along each side of the bed were seven-foot (2.1 m) pull shafts ending with a three-foot (0.9 m) crossbar at the front. The crossbar allowed the carts to be pushed or pulled. Cargo was carried in a box about three feet by four feet (0.9 m by 1.2 m), with 8 inch (0.2 m) walls. The handcarts generally carried up to 250 pounds (110 kg) of supplies and luggage, though they were capable of handling loads as heavy as 500 pounds (230 kg). Carts used in the first year's migration were made entirely of wood ("Iowa hickory or oak"); in later years a stronger design was substituted, which included metal elements.[8]

 

The handcart companies were organized using the handcarts and sleeping tents as the primary units. Five persons were assigned per handcart, with each individual limited to 17 pounds (7.7 kg) of clothing and bedding. ...

Mormon handcart pioneers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Turtle]

I scanned the thread & honestly thought we had more here. :)

 

Anyway, here's the chase. A person can pull a weight in a wagon that is easily 3 to 6 times as great as what they could carry in a pack on their back.

 

Taking it from there, and whether you get/build a wagon or not, design and describe your idea of the ideal cart or wagon that gets you darn near anywhere you can hike but with a lot more cargo. Ready...set...gedanken Ladies & Germs.

[Moontanman]

I scanned the thread & honestly thought we had more here. :)

 

Anyway, here's the chase. A person can pull a weight in a wagon that is easily 3 to 6 times as great as what they could carry in a pack on their back.

 

Taking it from there, and whether you get/build a wagon or not, design and describe your idea of the ideal cart or wagon that gets you darn near anywhere you can hike but with a lot more cargo. Ready...set...gedanken Ladies & Germs.

 

I was thinking of something a little more modern than teh morman hand carts with oak wheels but simple is the best way to go. complex will only be trouble at some point.

[Turtle]

I was thinking of something a little more modern than teh morman hand carts with oak wheels but simple is the best way to go. complex will only be trouble at some point.

 

When I started this madness, I was looking for large bicycle type wheels, but 27" was the max diameter I could find. :(

 

My idea is to include the most modern with the most simple, so when they find my mummified corpse with the wagon in 5,000 years after we thaw out of a glacier, I'll be a window to our age just like Ötzi the Iceman

in the Alps.

 

So, by all means Mtan, describe your ideal cart or wagon as if you were accompanying me on the Great Independence Day Handcart & Wagon Rally through the Cascade mountains. :) Let's git 'er done.

[Moontanman]

When I started this madness, I was looking for large bicycle type wheels, but 27" was the max diameter I could find. :(

 

My idea is to include the most modern with the most simple, so when they find my mummified corpse with the wagon in 5,000 years after we thaw out of a glacier, I'll be a window to our age just like Ötzi the Iceman

in the Alps.

 

So, by all means Mtan, describe your ideal cart or wagon as if you were accompanying me on the Great Independence Day Handcart & Wagon Rally through the Cascade mountains. :) Let's git 'er done.

 

Ok, I'm not sure about the final dimensions but I would go a motorcycle grave yard and look for a couple of large motoX cross type bikes and get the front wheels(cast aluminum not spokes) and use the hydraulic disc brakes from the motorcycle to allow me to have two independent brakes, one on each wheel connected to the push bar of my two wheeled cart. Then I would put foam rubber into the tires to keep them ever needing air or going flat. This is the only modern change I would make. The cart would be pretty much the same as the ancient carts but I would make it out of wood and aluminum. Metal axils and a roll back tarp top. It would be long enough for me to sleep in at night and I would put a extendable bar in the front to level out the cart at night. As for what I would put in it, it would depend on where I was going but a solar panel and a couple of deep cycle gel batteries would be a must. maybe the roll back top could made with flexible solar cells. Room for at least ten gallons of water and a hand pump to use with a membrane to produce pure water from any source. MRE's would be a good choice for the food supply but equipment to fish and trap small animals would be important. My twelve gauge pump short barreled shotgun with several types of ammo to both take advantage of any big game I ran across and to defend from big predators. A rack to use in front of a fire to smoke meat, sleeping bag, a net to keep away mosquitoes. Maybe a fish net as well to catch fish. Cook stove, electric and maybe a solar stove as well. Cook utensils so I can cook over a wood fire. I can't think of anything else right now.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

When I started this madness, I was looking for large bicycle type wheels, but 27" was the max diameter I could find. :(

:hihi:

Have ya looked into rikshaw wheels? They look a bit larger and.....HEY! wait a minute!!!!There ya go!! Git yerself a rikshaw and modify it!!! That would fit the bill nicely I'd bet!.:)

[Ahmabeliever]

Turtle! That is really neat :)

 

Here's my take on it. The original list of wagon contents, though impressive, do not really have what you need for survival. For short term yes, but if you can carry a wagon load of goods, you could live long term from it.

 

I've lived in the bush for four months with my girlfriend. It was on the coast so we ate a lot of seafood. The girl I was with had good knowledge of local plants to eat and use as medicine. If you don't have a girlfriend with herbal knowledge to put in your wagon, I recommend a book or two. Puha dandelion watercress seaweed and herbs were all part of the fare for us here. We took a backpack of supplies in each.

 

Tent.

Sleeping bags.

Clothing, towels, toiletries.

Saucepan and frying pan. Crockery, cups (tin) and cutlery.

Fishing and hunting material. Hand lines, spare hooks, sinkers, traces, line.

Hunting was scarce, no game really to speak of, opossum and eel were caught with a tomohawk.

Two good knives and a whetstone to sharpen them.

Machete.

A leather hide.

Sewing materials.

Salt, rice, stocks, flour, herbs and spices.

First aid kit.

Radio and batteries (only used for weather).

Writing and reading material.

Torch and batteries.

Compass.

 

This was our survival pack. We need food, clothing, and shelter. With the above materials we could have fashioned our own furs pegging out possum skins and curing them with salt, (I did make a skirt from the leather hide for my girl :( ) we could have made a house from trees and clay, (we helped the ranger make one while out there), we did manage to forage 90% of our food, but would cheat and go into town once a month for rice, flour, and things we wanted like chocolate, eggs, alcohol, and tomato sauce.

 

We had identified rye grain on the mountain to use for flour. Leaves we could use to steam fish and roots in. Rocks we could knap. We had soft fern bedding underneath us, and a babbling brook ran beside the stone courtyard we'd paved in front of the tent. When storms threatened we moved to higher ground. The water never got to camp but in the trees you could see at one stage it was 2 metres higher than our courtyard :hihi:. The radio was invaluable...

 

Our responsibilities included collecting wood, catching fish, foraging greens, and cooking. It was an incredible life, I envy our prehistoric ancestors.

 

Basically we made love and went fishing and smoked pot and went fishing and carved things and made things as we sat by the fire at night in camp or out on the beach and there was no politics or problems or bills or bulls***.

 

We only left because winter was coming and it got colder than we were prepared for, (should have collected those furs!) otherwise I would be the leader of a tribe of Sasquatch by now.

 

Solar battery charging was not an option then, I would definately include it today.

 

Don't get me wrong I love the survival wagon, I've thought of 'outfitting' the back of my car with everything I need to be able to go back there if I had to.

 

Included in the 'kit' are seeds. Vegetables and herbs. And will make a wood gasifier stove too, very handy for when up fishing at night on the rocks.

 

Hope I wasn't too off topic, survival, minimalism, I love it. I can't watch survival shows, they're absolute rubbish.