Kites & kiting

[Turtle]

****ing idiots, yet another township meeting to try to block installing wind turbines on the hill. I'm surrounded by idiots. BTW I'm all for wind farms here. They mean jobs, tax revenue, hopefully cheaper power, and quite frankly I like think their neat, nifty, groovy, and downright cool.

 

There are a couple on a mountainside on the route down to my birthplace really really big ones...I always find my attention drawn to them...just too neat too ignore.

Back to the subject at hand:

I really hoped in all of your mathematical wizardry you would have either confirmed my simple formula or presented an alternative....oh well.

If that trike of yours had a speedo you could have driven the wheel noted the speed converted it to tire rpm based on tire circumference then calculated the reduction and got the answer for the motor under load. :P

No worries.

I've a feeling the speed of the device will be limited by the needed reduction to get the torque necessary for it to function and will either be ridiculously slow or right around the 3mph ideal.

 

Bastards!!

 

So I did some more cipherin' and found that with a 2.5" drive drum rolling at 330 rpm giving a line-speed of 2.5 mph, I can have a 5/8" drive pulley running at 1320 rpm. What a coinkydink! :lol:

 

I agree there are a lot of eithers, ifs, ands, buts, and ors yet to surmount. I don't see anything wrong with your math or method and I got nothin' otherwise which is why I asked. I started work on a 2.5" pulley for the train and have it roughed out, but it seems some roomies don't appreciate late night drill-pressing and moto-tooling. :rant: Phh]phphphphh...Some people's kids. Anyway, if I get the drive drum done next that's enough by my new calc to put together an operational mockup & go to trial without a train.

 

I was thinking maybe to wrap the drive drum with canvas for some added gription. One wrap of the string around is about 8" of contact, and I hope that's enough so it doesn't slip; otherwise I can invision having to take some special measure to keep the line from crossing itself on the drum and binding the whole mess up if I have to go 'round twicet. :doh:

 

I'm also rethinking the frame because as I had it I would have to thread the kite line through the monkey before launching the kite. This is the way I have done it with the tubes, but it's clumsy and puts the machinery at risk during launch. I would really like to be able to just hang the thing on any old line under tension, wrap the drive drum, attach a cover & go. Toward that end I was thinking to rework the end-pulleys by drilling a couple small holes through both sides and the brass sheave and bolting them together and then allowing the whole to turn free on a fixed axle.

 

 

The smoking light is on. :esmoking:

Edited September 11, 2013 by Turtle

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Multiple traction winds and crossover snag issues for drive drum: I believe simple rub guides for the line in and line out would prevent issues, easily made from some of that nifty plastic, heat, curve, secure.

 

Device needs to be installed on the line: "C" wind the line on a spool leaving two tails, one to the kite and a slightly longer one to the climber and anchor. make a carriage for the spool so it doesn't tangle as you are laying out the line pre-flight and paying out line during flight. Determine how you will control the line once the spool is down to the last couple wraps from the "C" created by rolling the line on the spool starting at the middle of the line leaving two tails that pay out in the same direction. as once the "C" is reached the line will release from the spool and the kite will try to take up any slack left on the carriage/anchor side. BTW, I failed to mention the spool will need a pin to secure the "C" during winding and unwinding, just a pin to keep the line from slipping on the spool for the first/last couple of winds. Of course my mind keeps saying an "S" wind would work better and require no securing pin....so that's an option, probably a better one...but then maybe not as a "C" wind will maintain better tension and be less prone to tangles.

Edited September 11, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Multiple traction winds and crossover snag issues for drive drum: I believe simple rub guides for the line in and line out would prevent issues, easily made from some of that nifty plastic, heat, curve, secure.

 

That's along the lines of my thinkin' Lincoln. :thumbs_up

 

Device needs to be installed on the line: "C" wind the line on a spool leaving two tails, one to the kite and a slightly longer one to the climber and anchor. make a carriage for the spool so it doesn't tangle as you are laying out the line pre-flight and paying out line during flight. Determine how you will control the line once the spool is down to the last couple wraps from the "C" created by rolling the line on the spool starting at the middle of the line leaving two tails that pay out in the same direction. as once the "C" is reached the line will release from the spool and the kite will try to take up any slack left on the carriage/anchor side. BTW, I failed to mention the spool will need a pin to secure the "C" during winding and unwinding, just a pin to keep the line from slipping on the spool for the first/last couple of winds. Of course my mind keeps saying an "S" wind would work better and require no securing pin....so that's an option, probably a better one...but then maybe not as a "C" wind will maintain better tension and be less prone to tangles.

 

Mmmmm...I don't follow all that yet, but I really don't want it installed on the line in a way that I can't put it on & off with the kite flying. As I say, been there done that. Not to worry; I have it worked out -mostly- in my mind's eye.

 

I shared the basic idea of a self-powered line traveler with a couple acquaintances out in the reel world yesterday. :lol: One seemed to think it can't be done (or maybe just that I couldn't do it) and the other seemed to think surely it had already been done. It hasn't, and it can.

[Turtle]

2:30 in the afternoon and it's 95 F'n degrees!

 

Anyway, I reworked the end-pulleys and blah blah blah woop woop woop I made this video>

 

:coffee_n_pc:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2MS3I7BvWw&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

You're doing better'n me!

played with plating, had a big oops, turned my mildly caustic hydrochloric acid with copper in solution which was a lovely copper brown with bright copper scum on top into a silvery grey solution that is extremely reactive to copper and aluminium...as in bubbles furiously, and emits a toxic cloud. Have a splitting headache, destroyed the piece I was attempting to plate and in general ain't happy.

[Turtle]

You're doing better'n me!

 

played with plating, had a big oops, turned my mildly caustic hydrochloric acid with copper in solution which was a lovely copper brown with bright copper scum on top into a silvery grey solution that is extremely reactive to copper and aluminium...as in bubbles furiously, and emits a toxic cloud. Have a splitting headache, destroyed the piece I was attempting to plate and in general ain't happy.

 

 

Yay!? :lol: It's 97 Fahrenheitin' degrees and holding and most of the bleeding has stopped. Better is such a relative term. Doing a cut-down job on that plastic wire-reel to make the drive pulley and I have the 2.5" belt pulley done. [well enough to test driving it with a rubber band at any rate.]

 

A couple things on the last vid. I used warshers!!! Didn't want ya thinkin' I was scart of 'em ya know. :lol: Anyway, the setup as shown can already replace my tube on the cam carriage just as it is. Note that when I first put it on the string, I missed the left pulley entirely. :doh: Notice how much nicer it travelled when I corrected the error. Lastly, it would not have flown off even with my jerk up on the line if the drive pulley were in place. Once it's in it will effectively trap the monkey to the line even if both end pulleys get jacked.

 

Turple out. :coffee_n_pc: :smilingsun:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I'm hoping you will provide a vid of the install on the line when it's all done....Something tells me it will be amusing.

 

How exactly are you going to get it on once the kites up?

[Turtle]

I'm hoping you will provide a vid of the install on the line when it's all done....Something tells me it will be amusing.

 

How exactly are you going to get it on once the kites up?

 

Oh you can be sure I will provide vids ad nauseam. :P That's entertainment. :Clown:

 

So, I will exactly do as shown in the vid, except the drive drum will be in place in the middle. Note that in the vid I hang the machine on the line & then I put on the 'cover' side of the frame. When complete, to put it on a active line I have the cover off I do as in the video, put the end-pulleys over the line as I do in the video, and then also put a full wrap of line over the side of the drive pulley and round its drum. Like the end-pulleys, its shaft will fit in a hole on the cover side and then the line is trapped inside the rails when the cover is installed. Note the axle of the drive drum is fixed to the drum and the rail & 'cover' holes will be the bushings as I first had the end-pulleys. I will put the motor pulley and belt on the non-cover side so they stay in place when the cover is off. With the cover off I can also change the belt by passing it over the drive-pulley and down to the motor.

 

Let the jocularity commence!!

 

:coffee_n_pc:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I can see it in my head, it's pretty much how I was thinkin you'd do it...here's the fun part...holding and fiddlin with several pieces of kit and fasteners, whilst trying to fanangle a "live" line that wants to do what the wind and the kite wants instead of what you want it to do, while trying to babysit a kite that wants to do what it wants to do....I could see me ending up throwing something, uttering many curse words, cussing myself out for throwing the whatever which I'll now have to locate and retrieve including any small bits that came off, followed by even more animated behaviour and much louder cussing as I realize something's broken/missing/ or is thoroughly tangled up in the line.

[Turtle]

I can see it in my head, it's pretty much how I was thinkin you'd do it...here's the fun part...holding and fiddlin with several pieces of kit and fasteners, whilst trying to fanangle a "live" line that wants to do what the wind and the kite wants instead of what you want it to do, while trying to babysit a kite that wants to do what it wants to do....I could see me ending up throwing something, uttering many curse words, cussing myself out for throwing the whatever which I'll now have to locate and retrieve including any small bits that came off, followed by even more animated behaviour and much louder cussing as I realize something's broken/missing/ or is thoroughly tangled up in the line.

 

I know! Ain't the fun part a peach!! I'm not much of a thrower or cusser on the field though; more of a sigher & head-shaker. :lol:

 

I have the drive wheel hub cut down to 5/8" between sides and the new 2 1/2" pulley drilled to fit 2 bolts passing through its sides & hub. Hope to get a small disk similarly machined for the other side tonight. Once that's done & assembled I will prolly cut down the diameter of the sides a ways and then will start fitting it to frame. Since this motor comes from a kiddy-car I'm not too worried that my little monkey will be underpowered, even at 9v. I've also found these motors in air-pumps that plug into cigarette lighter sockets and chain-saw sharpeners.

 

 

Have a !!##^^&&!!!### good evening dear tender readers. ;) :coffee_n_pc:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I thought it looked familiar...Was originally thinking about a compressor motor and snagging the gear too...I've several cheapy 12V pumps that due to abuse stopped pumping but have good motors...could've even carved the pump off leaving a bracket for mounting....but alas I've no idea how one would mount a pulley short of??? (designs vary too much some have the gear on a bushing with a cast axle on the pump body, some have a cast axle on the gear, some have a separate axle but it is too short to put a pulley on the opposite side, But the last at least has possibilities courtesy the right size bolt.)

 

No flying despite good breezes, plums needed pickin, and had errands to do. Got the plums pucked roughly 70lbs from my little tree. Went on my errands and completely forgot the most important one...to get tobacco...headed out forgot where I was going...didn't remember until hours after getting home...finally remembering but it being too late rode out to get smokes for the mrs.....and completely drew a blank as to where I was going...AGAIN!!! Several miles beyond where I was going finally remembered.....it's been a rough day.

Edited September 13, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

I thought it looked familiar...Was originally thinking about a compressor motor and snagging the gear too...I've several cheapy 12V pumps that due to abuse stopped pumping but have good motors...could've even carved the pump off leaving a bracket for mounting....but alas I've no idea how one would mount a pulley short of??? (designs vary too much some have the gear on a bushing with a cast axle on the pump body, some have a cast axle on the gear, some have a separate axle but it is too short to put a pulley on the opposite side, But the last at least has possibilities courtesy the right size bolt.)

 

They do come in great variety for sure. I'll have a closer look at the motor with the gear just to see what I have. I can support the gear and drive the shaft out with a drift punch if I need to, and just make another pulley.

 

Speaking of pulleys, I finished the first draft of the drive pulley and tried driving it with rubber-band belt while holding motor by hand. That showed me about 5 things to rework before another test. Sigh. :doh: :lol:

 

No flying despite good breezes, plums needed pickin, and had errands to do. Got the plums pucked roughly 70lbs from my little tree. Went on my errands and completely forgot the most important one...to get tobacco...headed out forgot where I was going...didn't remember until hours after getting home...finally remembering but it being too late rode out to get smokes for the mrs.....and completely drew a blank as to where I was going...AGAIN!!! Several miles beyond where I was going finally remembered.....it's been a rough day.

 

Simmer down now! Maybe time to rosin up the bow and wiggle a different kind of string. :note: :note2:

 

I'm missing the flying too and with school on I may only be able to fly at night down there. The fields don't have lights so darkness shuts down the teams. I'm scoping GargleEarth and following up with ground surveys in search of a new flying ground.

 

:coffee_n_pc:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Wish I could, cash flow...well the lack thereof finds me with two bows with only a couple of whiskers between them.

 

Not all that riled up anyway...just wish I knew WTF my mind has gone today....I mean to completely forget where I'm going between the driveway and the road?....To for get the sole reason I walked out my front door within the time it took to turn the bike around and head off down the road.....tis odd, I'm never that scatterbrained.

 

I DID however finally succeed in bypassing Fender's cheesy bass boost/ Preamp in my Jaguar...very exciting stuff there!..Absolutely amazing they'd put that piece of junk in such an otherwise awesome instrument...and the proof was in the plugging in (though I now have a potentiometer hole to fill, maybe I'll split the tone circuit), And upon doing so I again found myself amazed that they'd put that piece of junk in such a nice instrument. Aside form the merit of not needing a battery (which is always dead when I wanna play) the tone....OH THE TONE...so pretty....so fat and full and lovely on the neck and sparkly on the bridge (bet you didn't know basses can sound sparkly)....Again absolutely amazing they'd ruin such magnificent tone with such a crappy component.

 

What are you going to use for a belt anyway? I'm assuming issues relate to string traction, wander, and dificulty of getting the rig on the line?

Edited September 13, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Wish I could, cash flow...well the lack thereof finds me with two bows with only a couple of whiskers between them.

 

Not all that riled up anyway...just wish I knew WTF my mind has gone today....I mean to completely forget where I'm going between the driveway and the road?....To for get the sole reason I walked out my front door within the time it took to turn the bike around and head off down the road.....tis odd, I'm never that scatterbrained.

 

I DID however finally succeed in bypassing Fender's cheesy bass boost/ Preamp in my Jaguar...very exciting stuff there!..Absolutely amazing they'd put that piece of junk in such an otherwise awesome instrument...and the proof was in the plugging in (though I now have a potentiometer hole to fill, maybe I'll split the tone circuit), And upon doing so I again found myself amazed that they'd put that piece of junk in such a nice instrument. Aside form the merit of not needing a battery (which is always dead when I wanna play) the tone....OH THE TONE...so pretty....so fat and full and lovely on the neck and sparkly on the bridge (bet you didn't know basses can sound sparkly)....Again absolutely amazing they'd ruin such magnificent tone with such a crappy component.

 

What are you going to use for a belt anyway? I'm assuming issues relate to string traction, wander, and dificulty of getting the rig on the line?

 

 

Last first. I don't know what's going to work for belts, but from my little experiment I'm pretty sure rubber bands aren't it. Big O-rings? Panty hose? Whipped elastic? I guess that I'll cross that bridge after I burn it. :lol:

 

I only briefly touched on musical kites with my 'line-song' video, but there is a grand variety of musical kite mechanisms from 'flutes' to vibrating strings. Will have to go through my links to find more, but here is a simple resonator setup to amplify the line-song. Mike that can and feed your amp and let the sounds sound!! :note: :note: :note2: Get a big enough kite and strap that Fender to it. :omg: :lol:

 

Music on The Kite Line

 

The construction (see the "Tin Aeolian Harp") is quite simple. Drill a little hole into the center of the tin-bottom in order to pass the line through. Fix the line from the inside of the tin with a knot with an underlay of a thin plywood piece.

The so fastened tin is now knotted into the holding-line (by means of the line, which is knotted to the tin-bottom). Hang/ knot it in a short distance from the anchoring-point into the holding-line.

That's it!

The vibrations, produced by the wind in the holding-line, are now transmitted by the short piece of line (which is fixed at the tin-bottom) onto the tin, hanging below the holding line. Now the line sound can be heard loud and clearly within a radius of 30-40m.

 

 

 

:coffee_n_pc:

[Turtle]

Here's a page dedicated to kite music. Plans, history, physics, and recorded examples. :smart: :singer:

 

aeolian

aeolian [iːˈəʊlɪən] adj of or relating to the wind; produced or carried by the wind [from Aeolus, god of the winds]

 

Kite Musical Instruments & Aeolian Musical Instruments

Edited September 13, 2013 by Turtle

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Last first. I don't know what's going to work for belts, but from my little experiment I'm pretty sure rubber bands aren't it. Big O-rings? Panty hose? Whipped elastic? I guess that I'll cross that bridge after I burn it. :lol:

I don't think "O" rings will have the gription you'll need (why didn't spell checker catch that? EDIT: Oooooh, cuz it's a real word :D) without appropriately shaped pulleys...but...what'er you use will have to play well with the motor at startup

I know there are pretty tough belt drives available for R/C , and very nice drive belts and pulleys in old dot matrix printers (and some newer inkjets)...if you could harvest the toothed belt drives from a printer that would prolly be perfect. (some of the belts are quite short some are very long......hrrrrm, two drive pulleys and two guides would prolly work out rather well)

 

Get a big enough kite and strap that Fender to it. :omg: :lol:

Lol, yeah wrong thread to post bass mods ;) Though I could duplicate that tin harp thingy minus the tin...just run the line to the strings close to the bridge.

Edited September 13, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

I don't think "O" rings will have the gription you'll need (why didn't spell checker catch that? EDIT: Oooooh, cuz it's a real word :D) without appropriately shaped pulleys...but...what'er you use will have to play well with the motor at startup

I know there are pretty tough belt drives available for R/C , and very nice drive belts and pulleys in old dot matrix printers (and some newer inkjets)...if you could harvest the toothed belt drives from a printer that would prolly be perfect. (some of the belts are quite short some are very long......hrrrrm, two drive pulleys and two guides would prolly work out rather well)

 

I imagine O-rings aren't cheap so won't be trying them any time soon. None of those devices on hand to salvage right now, but will be on the lookout. 2 of my 5 to-do's are cutting the grooves deeper in motor & driven pulleys. Did the big 1 on the drill press and plan to just run the motor and recut the other in situ. #3 was make a new back plate of 1/4" stock as the 1/8" broke when I tightened the bolt. Done. 4 & 5 were to cut down the sides of the drive pulley. 1 done.

My new bright idea for belts is... hair ties! Large variety of styles, colors, & sizes to fail with, readily available, and inexpensive. :D

 

 

Lol, yeah wrong thread to post bass mods ;) Though I could duplicate that tin harp thingy minus the tin...just run the line to the strings close to the bridge.

 

Got to thinking on your bowlessness and the aeolians and making strings viber rate in general. I then recalled once seeing an orchestrion in a Nebraska museum that contained a violin among the instruments. The machine did not use a bow, but rather small spinning wheels which would drop down onto a string to play it. Not sure if they were leather or maybe felt, or maybe even wound horse-hair. :shrug: So anyway, put a wheel on a little motor and cello out man! Look Pa! No bow. :omg: Make a glove with motorized finger-tip-wheels on all 6 fingers and pedal speed controls. Like far 'round man.

 

Pinwheel on kite drives wheel which rubs string which makes tones.

 

:coffee_n_pc: