Massless Energy & Nothing.

[OmegaX7]

Hello all. Just thought I'd post once more before this thread fades. My initial question stemmed from extrapolatiing back to, and beyond, the Big Bang. I guess I am to accept that this leads to "absolutly nothing." But I can't accept that. Our universe, played in reverse, would at some degree of density transform back to pure energy, and that energy would have to continue to "compress" untill it slipped into a flat space where absolutly everything is the same no mater how long, or far, you looked. Now, in this respect, at what point would matter cease to exsist? Shouldn't this be where the "clock of time" stops ticking; where there is "no matter?" Also at this point, and one of my initial thoughts, is "this" energy anything? -- or is it nothing?? Mabey you all can tell me. It seems that, if at this point in question, there is no "matter" present, there could be no "time factor." "That" I can accept and comprehind. But this still represents "something" doesn't it. Is it unacceptable to speculate here??

Thank you all, I've learned a lot - - I guess. Most of you are "c" beyond me in this stuff.

I'll keep wondering and reading all I can find on this "speculative" subject and perhaps come up with some other intresting question worthy of your attention.

And CLAY, - - where can I get "MY" address in lat/lon.?????

L8R

"After all is said and done, Gravity Rules."

[maddog]

So the photon could have mass?

Not quite. A photon would not have Rest Mass since a photon is never at rest. A photon can have

kinetic energy which can be derived from (either wavelength or frequency). Hope this helps.

 

maddog

[Damo2600]

Not quite. A photon would not have Rest Mass since a photon is never at rest.

 

The electron is never at rest and it has mass. Actually our planet earth is never at rest and it has mass.

 

Josie

[lindagarrette]

The electron is never at rest and it has mass. Actually our planet earth is never at rest and it has mass.

 

Josie[/quote Seems to me much of the terminology is used to describe mathematical constructs that don't really mean anything in real life. (My opinion -- a rarity.)

 

electron rest mass from Wikipedia:

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The electron rest mass, symbolized me, is the mass of an electron as measured when its speed is zero relative to an observer. Electrons have extremely small mass, approximately 9.10956 x 10-31 kilogram (kg) or 9.10956 x 10-28 gram (g). Every known electron at rest has the same mass as every other known electron at rest. When an electron is accelerated to high speed, its mass increases because of relativistic effects.

[Damo2600]

Thanks for that lindagarette.

 

Seems to me that a photon is said to not have mass so it fits with einstein's equation. If it doesn't fit with the maths we'll just change the facts. Physics high preists are much like the catholic church.

 

The photon has been measured to have mass. Simple as that. If the facts don't fit the theory then the theory in part at least is incorrect.

 

Josie :note:

[Kirk Gregory Czuhai]

Couldn't you have at least credited the FAQ you cut and pasted this from?

the information i see you implicate me of practically literally stealing is over two years old! AND its in the public domain!

 

i see where you are quite active bringing news to the scienceforums!

 

are all these news articles in the public domain? its amazing otherwise that you get permission to use them so quickly as you see fit!

 

maybe science forums has an agreement with all the sources you use of which I am not aware?

 

oh well, what me worry? LOL

[C1ay]

the information i see you implicate me of practically literally stealing is over two years old! AND its in the public domain!

 

i see where you are quite active bringing news to the scienceforums!

 

are all these news articles in the public domain? its amazing otherwise that you get permission to use them so quickly as you see fit!

 

maybe science forums has an agreement with all the sources you use of which I am not aware?

 

oh well, what me worry? LOL

As a matter of fact all of the news I bring here are public news releases for the media and the source is credited at the bottom of every one of them. I could not take someone else's work and post it as my own. If I use any material from anyone else I post a credit and/or a link back to the source, usually both. Posting material without credit implies the work is yours when it is not and that is plagiarism. I can also see that as of this post you have still not given credit to the site you took the material from. At least I provided the link for others when you didn't.

[Queso]

As a matter of fact all of the news I bring here are public news releases for the media and the source is credited at the bottom of every one of them. I could not take someone else's work and post it as my own. If I use any material from anyone else I post a credit and/or a link back to the source, usually both. Posting material without credit implies the work is yours when it is not and that is plagiarism. I can also see that as of this post you have still not given credit to the site you took the material from. At least I provided the link for others when you didn't.

 

 

:hyper: kirk you got served! ! :note:

[Kirk Gregory Czuhai]

As a matter of fact all of the news I bring here are public news releases for the media and the source is credited at the bottom of every one of them. I could not take someone else's work and post it as my own. If I use any material from anyone else I post a credit and/or a link back to the source, usually both. Posting material without credit implies the work is yours when it is not and that is plagiarism. I can also see that as of this post you have still not given credit to the site you took the material from. At least I provided the link for others when you didn't.

if something is in the PUBLIC DOMAIN! like SCOTCH TAPE

i can use it to do whatever i want to with it as far as using the information!

perhaps YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE COPYRIGHT LAW?

ARE you going to accuse me of plagiarism?

I really think at this time despite what you have been espousing at what it seems great length about my single post that its you that are in more danger than me PERHAPS when in comes to this but I am not pointing any fingers just playing the game:

 

I am rubber you are glue,

whatever you say,

bounces off me,

and sticks to YOU !!

 

LOL :note:

 

donnut worry, be happy, Jesus and I love you!

[C1ay]

if something is in the PUBLIC DOMAIN! like SCOTCH TAPE

i can use it to do whatever i want to with it as far as using the information!

perhaps YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE COPYRIGHT LAW?

ARE you going to accuse me of plagiarism?

I really think at this time despite what you have been espousing at what it seems great length about my single post that its you that are in more danger than me PERHAPS when in comes to this but I am not pointing any fingers just playing the game:

I understand copyright law just fine and you were not accused of violating anyone's copyright. Had you violated someone's copyright your post would have been pulled immediately. What you did do was post someone else's work as your own without giving them any credit for it. That is plagiarism whether you like it or not. Edgar Allen Poe's work is in the public domain too, but that doesn't mean you can post The Raven as your work. Here's an example of a public domain policy from one of our very own government agaencies, the NOAA:

 

Restrictions for Using NOAA Images

 

Most NOAA photos and slides are in the public domain and CANNOT be copyrighted.

 

Although at present, no fee is charged for using the photos credit MUST be given to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration/Department of Commerce unless otherwise instructed to give credit to the photographer or other source.

 

See, public domain does not mean you can claim someone else's intellectual work as your own, it only means that you can freely distribute it without paying royalties for it. Do you not see the difference?

 

I am rubber you are glue,

whatever you say,

bounces off me,

and sticks to YOU !!

Now that's rich. That's something I'd expect from a kid, not an adult. That really speaks volumes.

[Kirk Gregory Czuhai]

:note: kirk you got served! ! :note:

i am surprised someone is asking me for a URL link !!! :hyper:

 

From my library you can find some physics if you are interested at:

 

http://www.altelco.net/~lovekgc/PhysicsIsTheAnswerLOL.htm

 

Please Note:

Some have complained that I have not identified the sources of all the information I have given below on the Physics topics:

I have not meant to "STEAL" from anybody! I have just collected information that is in the public domain from newsgroups and emails and pieced them together. The information is all in the public domain. Some of the information contains authors names but often the

Authors have gotten their information anomynmously and from other sources of course and I assume that was also from course work, public domain, or similiar non-copyrighted material. If not, please inform me at: [email protected] and i will remove the material immeadiately!!! In my URL given you will find a long physics faq with the author identified from which the information came of my post in this group. The original url i got it from I do not recall as it was some 2 years ago! Obviously, he knows a lot of physics but I doubt that he did it from his "head"!!! without using notes or other sources some of which he does give but others?

 

YOU KNOW :hyper: I am not out to get ANY BODY upset with me! HELLO PEOPLE AND PEACE!!! I am NOT a threat to NO ONE! You all go on with your life's as you see fit. I am not going to interfere! I am not hiding who I am or where I have been! You are free to mess up or be a sucessful as you will become! Best wishes! :hyper:

 

I LOVE YOU ALL! LIFE IS GOOD! I AM KIRK GREGORY CZUHAI! GLAD TO MEET YOU!!!

 

LOL LOL LOL !! HAR HAR HO HO!

 

it speaks volumes does it?

 

yes, i like living in my child! IF You insist on living in your parent and do not like me in my parent at all. goo goo. giggle giggle. i doo doo for you.

 

I can exist in my adult if you insist. But i prefer play to work, is something wrong with that? see my resume, do you not think I have worked enough?

 

http://KirkGregoryCzuhai.WS

 

Heaven Sense is my propriotorship so I get to do legally what "work" I want!

 

Today I will Worship God and LOL!

[Damo2600]

Thanks guys for all ignoring my post,

 

I guess I can understand why if I'm right.

 

Josie

[OmegaX7]

Yes DAMO2600, you most likely "are" :) being ignored. I'm not fortunate enough to have had parents with the spare change to put me thru school so I've had to be content with what I can learn by reading the scores of books I've studied over the years. But it's simply not enough here in this forum. :D I understand and comprehind more than most people in my own town, "but here", thats not enough. I try to ask logical questions but instead of help I usually get harshly critisized, thrown to the dogs, tossed in the shredder, - - - or ignored. So if your not on a level with them, your of lesser concern. But don't dispare. I don't. Some great people have risin from where we are, thru ideas no one thought feasible, or logical.

Finally, --- I'm sorry I even started this thread; really. I've only wanted to extrapolate back to before there was any matter/mass and been accused of trying to unifie gravity with the electromagnetic force. No one seems to be willing to provide me with some example or analogy of why these forces "can't" be unified, but that in itself ( the fact that I'm asking ) does not mean "I'M" trying to solve T.O.E., I'm only looking for some answers that no one here seems to be able to help with. What "I have" read in these 17 or 18 pages has, in part, been helpfull, but about 98% of them discusses events and theorys that pretain to an era "after" the creation of matter and the beginning of time.

I'm rambling again. Good luck with "your" posts. And once more, I appologize to any of you whose intellect I've insulted or time I've wasted.

L8R Good day all.

[maddog]

The electron is never at rest and it has mass. Actually our planet earth is never at rest and it has mass.

It is acceptable for an electron to have mass (continually spinning or not) since this velocity is ALWAYS

less than c (< c). A photon or wave of light propagates as the speed of c (speed of light). Thus a photon's

rest mass is 0. This is quite well worked out according to Einstein's SR theory.

 

maddog

[lindagarrette]

Yes DAMO2600, you most likely "are" :) being ignored.I try to ask logical questions but instead of help I usually get harshly critisized, thrown to the dogs, tossed in the shredder, - - - or ignored. What "I have" read in these 17 or 18 pages has, in part, been helpfull, but about 98% of them discusses events and theorys that pretain to an era "after" the creation of matter and the beginning of time.

Maybe you are ignoring the answers you are getting, or your questions are not being understood. If you expect meaningful answers to your questions, you should express them clearly and be specific. It helps to become well acquainted with the subject, so you are not asking basic questions or expecting simple answers to questions that may still be puzzling theoretical physicists.

 

An example is your dissatisfaction with answers to what existed before space/time. The asnwer is nothing. Any other is pure speculation. The topic of mass and energy has been presented very well a number of times by different members of the group. You need to think about those comments before jumping to the next issue.

 

You might like to try another type of forum that doesn't expect so much. Ask the Astronomer at "The Astronomy Cafe" is one for example, hosted by Sven Odenwald, my favorite. It has excellent answers to the most frequently posed questions, and you don't have to be a member. There are others: Ask a Scientist, Ask a Pjysicist.. (Google) Keep searching. Don't take criticism personally. But be receptive and pay attention to the answers you get.

[JR414]

Although the speed of light is no longer constant when we think about different media, we do know that light always travels fastest in a vacuum. Nothing can reach speeds faster than c (well that's not exactly true, see here for more details). Thus from our equation v=c/n, n must always be greater than 1. Light moves slower through denser media because more particles get in its way. Each time the light bumps into a particle of the medium, the light gets absorbed which causes the particle to vibrate a little and then the light gets re-emitted. This process causes a time delay in the light's movement so the more particles there are (the more dense the medium), then the more the light will be slowed down.

 

u say light can be slowed down in a different medium... what about when light comes in contact with clouds, would that be a medium where light could be slowed down?

[Dark Mind]

Yes, it would. Some light would'nt even make it through if the clouds were dense enough, it would just be reflected back from where it came, or off in some odd direction.

 

Welcome to Hypography! :)