The white light

[Queso]

Numerous cases of people who die and come back to life on the hospital bed say they saw "the white light" of heaven.

This is simply just the light hanging above them in the hospital.

 

Now, the rest of the people that say they just saw jesus, and all that, are either exaggerating, or having mild halucinations.

Every day, the concept of the after-life becomes more and more absurd to me.

It's sometimes sad to think that we are only temporary, and our senses will cease and we will rot away, but you know...it's the truth. It reminds us to make the best of our days, the best of our time here alive.

"Celebrate this chance to be here, alive and breathing."-tool

 

Life must be so easy thinking you will live forever. Thinking not to do anything bad, because if you do, you'll go to hell.

*applause. :D

Very good, religion. Tou-che.

The concept of hell scares people into being "bad."

Where are all the reports of a firey death pit with demonic minions scurrying around tying you up to chains and stabbing you with a 3 pointed giant red fork after they die and come back to hell? :o

[Tormod]

Where are all the reports of a firey death pit with demonic minions scurrying around tying you up to chains and stabbing you with a 3 pointed giant red fork after they die and come back to hell? :D

 

Isn't that the Bible? And Sunday sermons?

 

Not trying to be funny. The white light thing is nothing I believe in myself, but never having had a near death experience I can't say I am not biased.

 

The purpose of hell is multifacetous: it is both a deterrent and a necessary opposite to heaven. Hell is present in most religions (just look at Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology for examples of non-Christian versions). I believe Hinduism does have a hell too but it is only temporary as opposed to eternal damnation.

[Queso]

I meant people who die and come back to life and say they saw hell. Nobody has reported that one yet.

 

So if hinduism has a temporary hell...what's supposively after that?

[alxian]

the white light, your mind is close to death and all available resources are used up, this appears to be overload and to you a bright light, once its used up you percieve a fade to black at which point your mind begins to shut down. occassionally the body repairs itself in that time and you reawaken or you die.

 

the white light then is your brain burning itself out like a roman candle. assuming you don't die you'll report the experience as traumatic, while in reality its very traumatic and could lead to brain damage [the overload], curiously though most patients who die and come back later on are perfectly healthy..

 

i'm starting to wonder if this is really a science forum if all people do is link everything to gods and bibles and such. when you die your legacy is all that remains, you turn to dust and feed the earth [unless your family stuffs you into a lead casket...]. hopefully in life you have kids and properly brainwash them to your point of view so that in death you continue to live vicariously thru your progeny.

[Fishteacher73]

The human mind is quite good at insulating itself from bad events. Death is as about as bad of a day as you can have... Just as psyco-active drugs initiate a chemical cascade in the brain, high stress can intiate similar rections. I think this "light" is a combination of chemistry and psychology. We have this physical phenomenon and it is being interpreted to the minds best "spin." This calming effect would facilitate survival. The body is much more stable when it is relaxed as when it is stuggling (reduced blood loss, slower spread of toxins, etc). Again, I bet you would find various analogs of the "white light" in different cultures, but the reasoning for it would stand.

[Queso]

i love being proven wrong :D

thanks for the interesting replies guys, i learn so much new stuff every day.

[RiverRat]

Read through the massive amount of literature on these two sites.

 

http://www.near-death.com

 

http://www.nderf.org

I had a fortunate opportunity to speak directly with an individual that had a NDE. He is a simple man that has become very reflective and at the same time optimistic. He suffered a heat attack, lost consciousness and was fortunately revived by EMT’s via CPR and defibrillation while in route to the ER.

 

His experience affected him in a most profound way. He broke into tears when he recounted the experience he had 7 years earlier. He said that he rarely speaks about it because he is afraid to be labeled a ‘kook’.

 

He described the prototypical NDE with a separation from his physical body (he later … freaked out the ambulance driver that was not possibly visible to him by ‘thanking him’ for the quick response), tunneling with vibrant lights, a beautiful vast flower meadow and an encounter with a deceased relative and also a ‘stranger’.

 

Of course this is easily dismissed as ‘anecdotal’. However … it struck me as odd that some of your atheist brethren actually did an ‘about face’ after such an experience. I suppose that was all the ‘proof’ they needed.

 

Tormond ... could these posts be moved elsewhere to get more views?

[C1ay]

I meant people who die and come back to life and say they saw hell. Nobody has reported that one yet.

 

You mean the people that saw a red light or a fiery light or some such thing? :D

[RiverRat]

I meant people who die and come back to life and say they saw hell. Nobody has reported that one yet.

 

There are actually quite a few 'hell' accounts from NDE's. I suspect that there would be even more if people actually relayed their experiences. It is thought that people are less apt to tell about a 'negative' NDE because they wish not to be 'labeled'.

[Aki]

I meant people who die and come back to life and say they saw hell. Nobody has reported that one yet.

 

But there are some people who die and come back to life report that they saw ghosts...

[TeleMad]

Here's a link to a page that gives a pretty good explanation of NDEs in materialistic (physiological, biochemical, psychological) terms.

 

http://neardeath.home.comcast.net/nde/001_pages/08.html

 

Here's a short snippet:

 

It appears that, rather than any spiritual journey or other world phenomenon, NDEs may be best understood by examining human physiology, neurochemistry, and psychology. At this time, there is strong research evidence to indicate that many of the symptoms of NDEs may be caused by anoxia, or a lack of oxygen to the brain.

[RiverRat]

An interesting rebuttal to… “ proved, scientifically, that NDE’s are hallucinations caused by brain activity.”

 

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles001.html

[TeleMad]

A rebuttal by someone is at least as biased as the author he rebuts.

 

I didn't make it all the way through, and I doubt others will either, so if there is some specific point you want to make, can you post it.

 

I'll return to quoting some material from the link I posted.

 

In the human visual system, for example, neurons (brain cells) deprived of oxygen will start to fire out of control. Since the majority of the cells in our visual cortex (the portion of the brain where visual information is processed) respond to stimulation in the central visual field, the result is a white spot in the center with fewer cells firing out of control in the periphery. As oxygen deprivation continues, the white spot grows and the sensation of moving through a tunnel toward a white light is produced. Similarly, it is possible that the life review process is a result of depriving the temporal lobes of oxygen. When the temporal lobes of the brain, an area largely involved in memory production, are deprived of oxygen, neurotransmitters are released and massive electrical activity ensues. In laboratory research, when people's temporal lobes are stimulated with electrodes, many subjects experience the reliving of memories, out of body experiences, and even the sensation of moving through a tunnel toward a light. Oxygen deprivation can also affect the limbic system, which contains the seat of emotions in the brain. The intensely pleasurable feelings of love and well-being that accompany moving toward the light may therefore be a consequence of increased activity in the limbic system.

 

Sounds reasonable, and since there is no legitimate evidence of a soul or an afterlife, Ockham's razor has us reject the soul-based explanation in favor of the rational one.

[C1ay]

An interesting rebuttal to… “ proved, scientifically, that NDE’s are hallucinations caused by brain activity.”

 

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles001.html

 

Not really interesting at all. Greg Stone is simply stating why he does not believe in Susan Blackmore's hypothesis. From your own link,

 

I have not claimed that any of my work proves the Dying Brain Hypothesis. In fact no amount of research ever could. The most I could hope to do, and in fact what I tried to do in Dying to Live, is to show that we can account for all the major features of the NDE without recourse to such ideas as a spirit, a soul, or life after death. -Susan Blackmore

 

She never claimed her theory was proven scientifically. As for Mr. Stone's critique, he has effectively stated what he believes the competition's product does not do without telling you one thing that his company's product does do. Does he have a published hypothesis of his own to review?

[RiverRat]

From the rebuttal in question…

 

This primary and most basic tenet of the Afterlife Hypothesis—that spirit (and consciousness) separate from the body—deserves primary attention, but Blackmore instead addresses tangential arguments.

 

Failing to formulate a clear and concise statement of what must be demonstrated to support each hypothesis, she fails to test clear assumptions and ends up concluding neither has proof, after which she expresses her feeling the Dying Brain Hypothesis must be right. Skeptics make the mistake of claiming scientific proof when Blackmore offers only opinion.

 

In the first chapter, in quotes provided by NDErs, specific references are made to being "outside his/her body." NDEs, we learn, sometimes include the observation of actual proceedings, such as operations, viewed from unusual vantage points. This important point evidence, the very essence of the Afterlife Hypothesis, is ignored at this early stage in the text

.

 

Blackmore later states in her own words …

"Some very strong claims are made. The implication is always the same; that people during NDEs have actually seen the events occurring from a location outside their bodies. 'They' have left their bodies and that is why they can accurately see what is going on. If these claims are valid then the theory I am developing is wrong...."

 

These claims are actual accounts, the data exists and studies revolve around the whole aspect of a NDE being a ‘dualistic’ experience. There are even documented accounts of the blind from birth giving vivid replays of the ‘physical aspects’ surrounding their resuscitation.

 

It seems to me that a flippant renouncing of these studies may stem from the idea that these experiences are an attempt to justify a ‘God’ or some ‘religious doctrine’. There are varying degrees of accounts ranging from elderly atheists that convert to Christianity to young children with no real worldly experience. The overwhelming majority of people that have experienced a ‘core’ NDE have been profoundly impacted for the better. I suppose that for each individual experience there will be different rationalizations (ranging from the simple … ‘we can’t claim to know everything’ to the profound … ‘God is the moving force behind the universe’).

[pgrmdave]

Have there been any neurological studies of what happens within the brain near death?

[Turtle]

___Alxain said, "i'm starting to wonder if this is really a science forum if all people do is link everything to gods and bibles and such."

___I saw no such reference until yours.

___Someone else refered to anecdotal evidence (I can't find it now). I remind you that the topic has its entire basis in anecdotal evidence, ie. people who "died" & subsequently revived.

___Pure & simple, all such discussion is anecdotal. It is neither evidence for nor evidence against life after death, & only remotely related to religion by that idea. :cup: