Spinoffs from Do you believe in Evolution poll thread

[goku]

Is that how you would describe the variety of species in the genus canis comprised of wolves, jackals, coyotes, dingoes and dogs (wolf descendants)? That none of the current canis species evolved from any of the prehistoric species that included canis acutus, canis africanus (African wolf), canis anceps, canis antiquus (Great wolf), canis apolloniensis, canis armbrusteri (Armbrusters Wolf), canis arnensis, canis atrox, canis avus, canis brachypus, canis brevirostris, canis cautleyi, canis cedazoensis, canis chiliensis (Chilean wolf), canis cipio, canis condoni, canis dirus (Dire Wolf), canis edwardii (Edward's wolf), canis ensenadensis, canis etruscus, canis falconeri, canis ferox, canis khomenkoi, canis kuruksaensis, canis lepophagus, canis lupaster, canis lycanoides, canis majori, canis medius, canis megamastoides, canis michauxi, canis moreni, canis mosbachensis, canis nehringi, canis neschersensis, canis palaeoplatensis, canis petenyi, canis protojubatus, canis protoplatensis, canis robustus, canis strandi (Strand's wolf), canis suessi, canis temerarius, canis terblanchei, canis troglodytes, canis ursinus, canis variabilis, canis velaunus, canis volgensis and canis yuanmoensis? That none of these prehistoric species or any of the current species classified under the canis genus are related in any way? Please enlighten us. We await the proof you have to support this.

 

:shrug:, i , what?

[C1ay]

:shrug:, i , what?

 

What? You remarked that the evolution of flu strains was nothing more than adaptation so I've provided you another example with the genus canis. Would you also classify all of the different species of the genus canis as simple adaptation?

[goku]

What? You remarked that the evolution of flu strains was nothing more than adaptation so I've provided you another example with the genus canis. Would you also classify all of the different species of the genus canis as simple adaptation?

 

um, sure

 

with the exception of selective breeding

[C1ay]

um, sure

 

with the exception of selective breeding

 

You're not supporting your argument very well. Please explain how the vast speciation of the genus canis has occurred. Bear in mind that adaptation that results in different species, species that cannot interbreed, is exactly what evolution is. Also bear in mind that any claim that evolution does not exist is a claim that prehistoric species are not ancestors of current species.

[goku]

adaptation is one dog being able to smell better than another, or one being able to run faster.

 

evolution is the fish to lizard type stuff.

i wonder how many different species of human there are?

[freeztar]

adaptation is one dog being able to smell better than another, or one being able to run faster.

 

evolution is the fish to lizard type stuff.

i wonder how many different species of human there are?

 

Adaptation is a mechanism of evolution. In other words, adaptation is evolution, but evolution is not adaptation.

 

Evolution

[Thunderbird]

i wonder how many different species of human there are?

 

 

 

 

Homo sapien is a species, so there are no futher divisions, and no existing sub-species. There is however the hominid family that we belong to, I consider along with many anthropologist include the great apes. Here is a list of some of our extinct brethren.

 

 

http://http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html

 

The species here are listed roughly in order of appearance in the fossil record (note that this ordering is not meant to represent an evolutionary sequence), except that the robust australopithecines are kept together. Each name consists of a genus name (e.g. Australopithecus, Homo) which is always capitalized, and a specific name (e.g. africanus, erectus) which is always in lower case. Within the text, genus names are often omitted for brevity. Each species has a type specimen which was used to define it.

Sahelanthropus tchadensis 

This species was named in July 2002 from fossils discovered in Chad in Central Africa (Brunet et al. 2002, Wood 2002). It is the oldest known hominid or near-hominid species, dated at between 6 and 7 million years old. Orrorin tugenensis

This species was named in July 2001 from fossils discovered in western Kenya (Senut et al. 2001). The fossils include fragmentary arm and thigh bones, lower jaws, and teeth and were discovered in deposits that are about 6 million years old. Ardipithecus ramidus 

This species was named in September 1994 (White et al. 1994; Wood 1994). It was originally dated at 4.4 million years, but has since been discovered to far back as 5.8 million years. is not as firm as the other fossils.

Australopithecus anamensis 

This species was named in August 1995 (Leakey et al. 1995). The material consists of 9 fossils, mostly found in 1994, from Kanapoi in Kenya, and 12 fossils, mostly teeth found in 1988, from Allia Bay in Kenya (Leakey et al. 1995). Anamensis existed between 4.2 and 3.9 million years ago, Australopithecus afarensis 

A. afarensis existed between 3.9 and 3.0 million years ago. Afarensis had an apelike face with a low forehead, a bony ridge over the eyes, a flat nose, and no chin. Kenyanthropus platyops 

This species was named in 2001 from a partial skull found in Kenya with an unusual mixture of features (Leakey et al. 2001). It is aged about 3.5 million years old. The size of the skull is similar to A. afarensis and A. africanus, and has a large, flat face and small teeth.

Australopithecus africanus 

A. africanus existed between 3 and 2 million years ago.

Australopithecus garhi 

This species was named in April 1999 (Asfaw et al. 1999). It is known from a partial skull.

Australopithecus aethiopicus 

A. aethiopicus existed between 2.6 and 2.3 million years ago. crest is a bony ridge on top of the skull to which chewing muscles attach.)

Australopithecus robustus 

A. robustus had a body similar to that of africanus, but a larger and more robust skull and teeth. It existed between 2 and 1.5 million years ago. Australopithecus boisei (was Zinjanthropus boisei) 

A. boisei existed between 2.1 and 1.1 million years ago. It was similar to robustusHomo habilis H. habilis, "handy man", was so called because of evidence of tools found with its remains. Habilis existed between 2.4 and 1.5 million years ago. It is very similar to australopithecines in many ways.

 

Homo georgicus 

This species was named in 2002 to contain fossils found in Dmanisi, Georgia, which seem intermediate between H. habilis and H. erectus. The fossils are about 1.8 million years oldHomo erectus 

H. erectus existed between 1.8 million and 300,000 years ago.

Homo ergaster 

Some scientists classify some African erectus specimens as belonging to a separate species, Homo ergaster, which differs from the Asian H. erectus fossils in some details of the skull (e.g. the brow ridges differ in shape, and erectus would have a larger brain size). Under this scheme, H. ergaster would include fossils such as the Turkana boy and ER 3733.

Homo antecessor 

Homo antecessor was named in 1977 from fossils found at the Spanish cave site of Atapuerca, dated to at least 780,000 years ago, making them the oldest confirmed European hominids. Homo sapiens (archaic) (also Homo heidelbergensis) 

Archaic forms of Homo sapiens first appear about 500,000 years ago. The term covers a diverse group of skulls which have features of both Homo erectus and modern humans. The brain size is larger than erectus and smaller than most modern humans, averaging about 1200 cc, and the skull is more rounded than in erectus. The skeleton and teeth are usually less robust than erectus, but more robust than modern humans. Many still have large brow ridges and receding foreheads and chins. There is no clear dividing line between late erectus and archaic sapiens, and many fossils between 500,000 and 200,000 years ago are difficult to classify as one or the other.

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (also Homo neanderthalensis)

Neandertal (or Neanderthal) man existed between 230,000 and 30,000 years ago. Homo floresiensis

was discovered on the Indonesian island of Flores in 2003. Fossils have been discovered from a number of individuals. )

Homo sapiens sapiens (modern)

Modern forms of Homo sapiens first appear about 195,000 years ago

[C1ay]

adaptation is one dog being able to smell better than another, or one being able to run faster.

 

evolution is the fish to lizard type stuff.

i wonder how many different species of human there are?

 

You're still not supporting your claims as required. Show us scientifically how speciation resulting from adaptation and mutation is not evolution or that such speciation does not occur.

[goku]

You're still not supporting your claims as required. Show us scientifically how speciation resulting from adaptation and mutation is not evolution or that such speciation does not occur.

 

if you dropped cats off of sky scrapers for millions of years they would never grow wings and fly.

[C1ay]

if you dropped cats off of sky scrapers for millions of years they would never grow wings and fly.

 

Can you PROVE that? When people state things as fact here we expect them to support it with scientific evidence.

 

As for falling cats I suspect there is a chance they would evolve a patagium similar to that of pteromyini (flying squirrels).

[goku]

Can you PROVE that?

 

sure, just give me a few million years to perform the test.

[C1ay]

sure, just give me a few million years to perform the test.

 

In the meantime you can support the other claims you've made in this thread. Again, show us scientifically how speciation resulting from adaptation and mutation is not evolution or that such speciation does not occur.

[mynah]

A cat that is dropped from a skyscraper won't get much of a chance to evolve anything before it splats onto the concrete below. On the other hand, if many cats get dropped from buildings that are just high enough for some to survive, those that have structures in place such as the beginnings of patagia should have a slightly better chance of surviving and passing on their genes to their offspring. Exposure to similar conditions in subsequent generations would strongly favour selection for patagium genes, and could eventually lead to cats capable of gliding, or even flying.

[HydrogenBond]

This is an example of an environmental potential causing the genes to respond due to the need. In other words, if we didn't do the experiment, the odds of a random mutation appearing in the cat to satisfy the requirements of an experiment we will not run, get slim. The need for an adaptation works better with a push.

 

Even in an ecosystem, if one animal gets a mutation that gives it selective advantage, this becomes an environmental potential for the rest of the ecosystem. The new balance uses this one genetic push to environmentally create a bunch of different potentials leading to genetic changes. With all these changes drifting to create a new integrated ecosystem.

 

Here is a simple theory for the demise of dinosaurs. Since they are cold blooded, they needed to lay eggs. What would happen if some of the mammals became good at egg stealing? Under the conditions of evolving selective egg stealing advantage, only the dinosaurs descendants like crocks, gaters and turtles, who bury eggs, might remain. The mammals don't have carry the eggs off, but only have to crack them, for a quick meal, maybe ruining the brood. It is only one basic food task to evolve, but this one skill could have a profound impact on dinosaur populations.

[mynah]

Turtles and crocodiles are not descended from dinosaurs, although crocs are related to them, being archosaurs. Crocodiles don't bury their eggs - but they do guard them. Considering that not too many animals would risk an altercation with Mama Croc for an outdoor breakfast, that would be very helpful to the survival of crocodiles.

 

Warmbloodedness and the care of eggs and nestlings were probably important factors in the survival of the living dinosaurs, the birds - although their occupation of fairly unique ecological niches would have given them an advantage, too. (I say fairly, because pterosaurs - which were archosaurs, but not dinosaurs - and some other bird-like dinosaurs also survived up to the great extinction at the end of the Cretaceous.)

[goku]

In the meantime you can support the other claims you've made in this thread. Again, show us scientifically how speciation resulting from adaptation and mutation is not evolution or that such speciation does not occur.

 

speciation is just a word who's meaning is the result of circular reasoning.

[InfiniteNow]

So, basically you cannot support your own assertions and you are resorting to a bunch of handwaving? Ah... Clever approach you've chosen.