150MPG Sports Car

[alexander]

Drueling yet?

 

[img=http://evolution.loremo.com/images/stories/menue_design/large/10.jpg]http://evolution.loremo.com/images/stories/menue_design/large/10.jpg[/img]

 

Shake down Top Gear style :)

 

It has a 2 (3 in GT version) cylinder turbo diesel engine and only makes 20HP (50HP in GT version), with that in mind it has a top speed of 160kmh (200 for GT) and can steadily do 80km/h up a 10% gradient. It runs on 105/70 - R14 tires, and it's new linear cell structure creates a need for only 3 air bags. The wheels self adjust the negative camber in turns, and the car rides pretty high, yet providing enough clearance, combined with a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution, for safe winter operation. It costs 15,000 Euro (20,000 for GT) and will go from Munich to Rome on 15 liters of diesel (or bio diesel).

 

It is a mid-engine, rear wheel drive sports car?

 

The Loremo Principal. Check it out Intro*-*Loremo - low resistance mobile :) Luckily you, lucky european people, will be able to get the car as early as 2009, and if the interest is high, the car may just make it to the states, though later, due to weird and constantly changing regulations for imports :)

 

I wanna test drive one, but that does not justify a trip to Europe :)

[CraigD]

I want one! :hyper: Seems a perfect commuter car.

 

However, unless you consider dodging big trucks and SUVs overtaking you from behind to be great sport, “sports car” is a bit of a stretch. As best I can tell, the Loremo LS has no sort of hydrid trickery to give it momentarily more than its max 15000 W (20 HP) power. Simple physics, then, give its 600 kg + 100 kg driver & stuff a zero to 27 m/s (60 MPH) time of at least 17 s, assuming 100% mechanical efficiency and zero drag of any sort. From a power/mass perspective, it’s 15000/700 = 21.4 W/kg is about half that of a 1967 VW Beetle’s 40000/940 = 42.6. A high-end motor scooter has more power/mass, 78000/200 = 29 (a big 100 kg rider and gear) to 78000/150 = 52 W/kg (a little 50 kg rider and gear).

 

:( I’m skeptical that the Loremo could be licensed for highways use in the US, or that it should be. I get a sustained 10% grade uphill speed for it much less than the claimed 80 km/h – more like 50 km/h (30 MPH). Several times a year, I and a passenger travel a major US highway with a 70 MPH speed limit and sustained grades of 7.5%, which I calculate the Loremo LS would climb at about 65 km/h (40 MPH). IMHO, that’s just not safe.

 

:thumbs_up Now, if you wanna add about 100 kg of LiPoly battery, electric motor, and related stuff, and make a hybrid out of it, then you could be talking a wonder car, maybe with 40+ km/l (113+ MPG) even in city driving (the 50 km/l is, I suspect, an highway performance measurement, likely exaggerated a bit in the usual YMMV way).

 

I still want one. I’m used to commuting in the 8 W/kg domain of a bicycle, so 20 W/kg is plenty for me. Though not quite the equal of my area’s hybrid metro busses (those things are sweet!) with typical occupancy, it’d still be the most energy efficient thing on 4 wheels in my neighborhood!

[Zythryn]

Awesome idea, although I am skeptical until I see one road tested.

However, if I had a sports car in mind, I would buy a Tesla Roadster as they will be on the road before the Loremo and will do 0-60 in 4 seconds:)

http://www.teslamotors.com/images/banners/Tesla_banner6.jpg

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I'd rather have the Beetle!

And a couple High output (I've seen them available with 18hp) golf cart motors (mounted to the beetle's 4 speed manual gearbox) ,

some batteries, and a 49cc minibike motor (4-6 hours to a gallon of gas...not too shabby!) to power an appropriately rated alternater to recharge the lot when the grid powered charger is unavailable and I'd like to get home.

[alexander]

They are working on an electric and hybrid versions of the car, read the FAQ, and what i have listed comes from their FAQ, the results of road tests, so no, 10% incline at 80kph in the LS, and probably around 100kph in the GT, most us high ways are 7-7.5% grade. from what the FAQ on their site lists, approximately 100kph in the LS. And why wouldn't it be licensed for US use? Geos are, and they can barely break 65, are less safe and don't have the crazy entrance hatch door dealio?

 

On hybrids and electric versions. Loremo is saying that the benefit would be higher power output per same, low, fuel consumption :hihi:

 

Disturbed, why in a world would you want a beetle? this car is safer, faster and more efficient then the beetle..... ;) .... then again ... hey 5 speed v a 4 speed.... that's it, Loremo wins my heart :D

 

I want to get a Loremo and throw in a Suzuki GSX-R 750 motor in it, slightly bigger turbos, and see how fun it can really be with say oh 200-220 HP :doh:

[Racoon]

In the United States, a new upstart, Tesla Motors, is beginning to roll out some very impressive electric sports cars that aren't wimpy!

 

Tesla roadsters are currently out of the price range of the ordinary consumer, assuming they could even find one at this point in time. They get awesome gas mileage and look like a Lotus. Look out! :hihi:

 

 

Tesla Motors

[alexander]

I am well-aware of Tesla Motors, they make good product (in fact crystler is interested enougn in Tesla Motors that they are making their own version of electric sports cars)

 

Back on topic (that being thoughts on Loremo) please :)

I'm pretty surprised that no European people here shouting "holy crap this thing can go from Munich to Rome on 15 liters!!??"

 

P.S. anyone wanna start a topic on Tesla Motors cars?

[CraigD]

They are working on an electric and hybrid versions of the car, read the FAQ

I found a brief mention at “Will there be a hybrid version of the Loremo?” via the site’s search function, but didn’t see a frontpage link to a FAQ page. :QuestionM I get the impression this is not a high, or possibly an even “at all” priority.

what i have listed comes from their FAQ, the results of road tests, so no, 10% incline at 80kph in the LS

The problem is, road test claims or no, simple physics. [math]V = \frac{P}{M g s}[/math], ([math]s[/math] being rise/hypotenuse slope), so the claim borders on the physically impossible. 15000/((600+75)*9.8*.1) =~ 22.68 m/s =~ 81.6 km/h, meaning with 100% efficiency, zero frictional loss, and a 75 kg driver only, it’s just barely possible, so between the claims and the published specifications, something doesn’t add up. :shrug:

And why wouldn't it be licensed for US use? …

Some US States (MD and WV, I know) prohibit motorcycles with under 251 cc displacement from using highways. A typical stock 250 has anywhere from 13000 to 22000 W and empty mass 100 to 175 kg, for a 75 kg rider p/m ratio in the 50 to 100 W/kg range, so I’ve some suspicion regulators and/or lawmakers would think twice about allowing a 21 W/kg vehicle to use their highways. Keep in mind that such regulations aren’t based solely on a vehicle’s “factory” performance, but an expectation of what that performance might be after a few years of poor maintenance.

 

My guess would be that the 36000 W, 33 km/l (78 MPG) Loremo GT, but not necessarily the 15000 W, 50 km/l (118 MPG) Loremo LS, might legally see US highway use.

 

… Geos are, and they can barely break 65, are less safe and don't have the crazy entrance hatch door dealio?

A Geo Metro XFi, the lowest power (and highest fuel efficiency, and impressive 58 MPG) one sold in the US, has 37000 W power and 790 kg empty mass for a typical driver only (100 kg of driver and stuff) power/mass ratio of 41.6 W/kg, vs. the Loremo LS’s 21.4, and the 67 Beetle’s 42.6.

 

I can personally attest that the XFi could break 65 MPH (105 km/h) with no trouble, provided you weren’t trying to do it up a steep hill ;).

 

Don’t get me wrong - I’m awed by the Loremo. :eek_big: A vehicle so aerodynamically slick (.22 Cw) and hard, narrow tired (.105 m wide, vs. a Prius’s .185) that it can hit 160 km/h (100 MPH) on a 15000 W (20 HP) motor is a thing of awesome beauty. On top of that, I absolutely love the stick and clutch adventure of driving small, low-powered cars (eg: the Triumph Spitfire, MG Midget, etc.). Though not much smaller (empty mass 600 kg vs. a Spitfire’s 700), the Loremo’s much lower powered (20 HP vs. an early Spitfire’s 60), so a lot more gearbox artistry would be required to make it behave like a sports car :)

 

HeyHey, Alexander’s pulling a bit of a fast one, I think, in the thread’s title! 2 l/km is about 118 MPG, not 150!

[Tormod]

HeyHey, Alexander’s pulling a bit of a fast one, I think, in the thread’s title! 2 l/km is about 118 MPG, not 150!

 

Maybe he's paid by the Italians to spam us!:) :)

[Racoon]

I am well-aware of Tesla Motors, they make good product (in fact crystler is interested enougn in Tesla Motors that they are making their own version of electric sports cars)

 

Back on topic (that being thoughts on Loremo) please

I'm pretty surprised that no European people here shouting "holy crap this thing can go from Munich to Rome on 15 liters!!??"

 

P.S. anyone wanna start a topic on Tesla Motors cars?

 

Well, Tesla's 135 MPG's is nothing to sneeze about when you go 0-60 in 4 seconds,,, :rolleyes:

 

Just thought I'd mention it, without trying to excite an orgasm...

[CraigD]

Well, Tesla's 135 MPG's is nothing to sneeze about when you go 0-60 in 4 seconds

The main drawback with the Tesla (other than it being so rare and expensive that its not only unlikely that you or I will own one, but even that we’ll even know someone who does, and that pesky detail of not yet having a transmission that’ll actually give it the advertised 4 sec 0-60 time :rolleyes:) is that, like any present-day pure electric, after a couple of hundred miles, it’s recharge time. In the Tesla’s case, a recharge can be had from practically any electric outlet (provided you’ve got its “mobile charging station” in the trunk), but takes 3.5 hours from a 220 V source, longer from a 110 V. So, for long-distance travel, you’ve got about 50% driving to 50% recharging time

 

The only near-term solution to this problem I can see are plug-in hybrids, which allow operation as nearly a pure electric for short trips, or purely combustion engine for long ones. I’ve seen (mostly in the 1970s and 80s) solutions that involved a battery pack that can be swapped out at a participating station for a charged pack (typically using a special wheeled dolly system), but for that to be practical, you’ve got to get a lot of stations to begin carrying them – a proposition high on my “not gonna happen anytime soon” list.

 

Current kit and close-to-production PIHs appear to be mostly based on Toyota Priuses, which have a 57000 W gas and a 50000 W electric motor (actually, 2 electric motors), all of which can directly power the transmission at the same time. I’d much like to see a pure electric like the Tesla or the promised electric version of the Loremo with an add-on high-efficiency gas turbine generator, ideally external and detachable, that could be used to allow it to make long-distance trips with only brief fueling stops.

 

Drawbacks and small production volumes aside, I think the Tesla is a very important car, since it’ll demonstrate in the next 5 years if COTS LiPoly batteries can reliable run a car for 5+ years with less than 30% performance loss. Once this example is out there, I hope pure electric cars will gain a significant portion of the US and world market.

 

The add-on gas generator I describe will, I hope, feature in this market success. In fact, I think a small but lucrative market for such a product exists now – A lot of those 2008 Tesla owners likely still have money to burn, and would like to make a 1300 km (800 mi) DC to Orlando run in a single day, a feat possible in practically any gas-powered car, but entirely impossible in any electric on the market.

[freeztar]

The Aptera claims to get 130 mpg on gas alone, but with electric it can sustain much higher mpg, until the battery is fully discharged. It seems very possible that this hybrid vehicle could make long-range trips in a single day.

 

I found out about this "motorcycle-esque" hybrid from reading PopSci Jan08 edition. In the magazine it says that the Aptera has a drag coefficient of 0.11 compared to the Prius at 0.26. It is sleek! :rolleyes:

[palmtreepathos]

That Aptera is very cool, and not horribly expensive. I want one! Beam me up Scotty!

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Disturbed, why in a world would you want a beetle? this car is safer, faster and more efficient then the beetle..... :rolleyes: .... then again ... hey 5 speed v a 4 speed.... that's it, Loremo wins my heart

What you never wanted an old beetle?!?

 

I've wanted one since I was a kid!

 

My first car was a VW microbus (and I desperatly want another!)

 

Beetles (the old air cooled ones) Are SUPER COOL especially the split rear window model.

[CraigD]

The Aptera claims to get 130 mpg on gas alone, but with electric it can sustain much higher mpg, until the battery is fully discharged. It seems very possible that this hybrid vehicle could make long-range trips in a single day.

 

I found out about this "motorcycle-esque" hybrid from reading PopSci Jan08 edition. In the magazine it says that the Aptera has a drag coefficient of 0.11 compared to the Prius at 0.26. It is sleek! :hyper:

The Aptera Typ-1 is a 19000 W electric powered, 680 kg empty mass “series hybrid” – its battery charger and/or electric motor is powered by a 12000 W gas motor, an arrangement similar to the external unit I describe in post #11. I like it. :)

 

The makers claims a zero to 60 MPH time under 10 sec, which, as with many makers’ claims, appears to be a physical impossibility: [math]\frac{\frac12 (26.8 \,\mbox{m/s})^2 (680 + 80 \,\mbox{kg})}{19000 \,\mbox{W}} \dot= 14.4 \,\mbox{s}[/math]. Again, something here doesn’t add up. :(

 

:) There are a surprising number of very energy efficient cars said to be nearing production.

 

VW has announced that the ”1-litre car”, a 2002 concept car, will enter production in 2009, and get 101 km/l (238 MPG) via a 6300 W diesel. It’s a tandem 2 seater, empty mass 290 kg.

 

Amazing performance, but as with other very low-power cars in this thread, not one I’d want to drive on the long upgrades of, say, I-64 between Lexington VA and Beckley WV. With 2 passengers and a bit of luggage totaling 180 kg, it’s theoretical maximum speed up a 7.5% grade is a mere 6300 W /(290+180 kg)/.075 =18.2 m/s = 66 km/h = 41 MPH. Practically, this might be something like an actual speed of 60 km/h (30 MPH) – scarey slow. :eek2:

[alexander]

Maybe he's paid by the Italians to spam us!:cup: :hihi:

 

Brilliant, Tormod, simply brilliant, you got me there, Italians are paying me to spam a website created by a Norwegian and hosted in US, to advertise a German car.... brilliant :wink:

 

stock 250

2 stroke or 4 stroke? generally a 2 stroke 250 stock makes almost twice the power of the 4 stroke (trust me, this is experience of 3 years in a bike shop at work), it's also lighter, and is easier to maintain, simpler in the way it works, and minor, simple, small things can wield noticeable power changes (fairly easily modded)...

 

But on the note of what you have said, i love the math, and methinks loremo is holding back information :hihi:. They by the way, claimed 150MPG at the European car show this year, so hence why the topic is named such... Probably a case of "actual gas mileage may vary" deals :)

 

I have also not seen lots of enthusiasm into Loremo's hybrid development, although it may be understandable, they may want to get their first model out and propperly tested and making them revenue and a name, and then they may put money into the hybrid development.

 

Thoughts on the Aptera... They don't list what kind of batteries they are using in this car, I'd imagine a NiMh battery system is used, like in most hybrids though, so can you imagine what kind of a gas milege you would get with a Nanophosphate Lithium Ion? It generally gives a battery output 7 times that of the NiMh... hmmmm :)

 

What you never wanted an old beetle?!?

No, I've wanted some cool things though, like an 88 Suzuki Quadzilla, and stuff like that or if you are asking about older cars, i wouldn't mind having an AE86 (Tuerno)

[Tormod]

Brilliant, Tormod, simply brilliant, you got me there, Italians are paying me to spam a website created by a Norwegian and hosted in US, to advertise a German car.... brilliant :wink:

 

Bah...Italian, German...you know... :hihi: