Are older people capable of rational thought?

[Pyrotex]

I agree old people may gain wisdom... they may be more likely to be stubborn because they no longer believe that admitting when they are wrong will get them anywhere. Whereas a younger person may have a stronger belief in benefiting the community by helping to find the right answer and admitting when you are wrong...

My experience (speaking as one who is 60 years old) is that older people, especially as they have gained wisdom over the years, are MORE likely to admit when they are wrong. They have much less attachment to their "reputation" or "image", they aren't trying to impress women, they aren't competing against others as they were when they were 15-30. Besides, admitting that one is (or may be wrong) is an excellent way to defuse what may become an argument.

 

For the young person, being "right" is so very important and it's personal. For the enlightened oldster, being "right" is often just one of the booby prizes of life. Accomplishments are the Gold.

[DougF]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

I find the premise of this thread offensive

It is a bit like "Are women capable of rational thought"

It is prejudicial' date='bigoted and ageist.[/quote']

I too find the premise of this thread offensive, When I was A teenager I used to think I was "ten foot tall a bullet proof" I didn't want to ask those "old fogies" anything I mean what could they know of my life the world is different now right? ya if I want too know how to fight Indian's I'll go ask gramps.

 

Well Gramps died before I realized that he like me now has seen a thing or two (I would love to site down now and have a good long talk with him on his front porch over a cold glass of lemon Ade and a good game of checkers) I have found out in my years of experience (speaking as one who is now 50 years old) that like Gramps the hardest thing for me is to sit still and watch as my grandson struggles with a problem, as he works this I just want to jump up and say wait I've been there done that, the best thing you could do is.... and then I think of Gramps siting on that porch, yes Gramps knew and now so do I, I'm not going to be here forever and there are things, well things that are sometimes better learned by trial and error. :)

 

Now I find myself sitting on the porch thinking about all the things I've seen, all the things I've done, so much left to do so little time, Any body want to play a game of checkers? :hihi:

 

If you ask, We will answer.

The wisdom is in us Old Fogies but we ain't got the time to wast trying to beat it into your head. :hihi:

( A good day is any day that I learn something new)

.

.

[paigetheoracle]

Do you know why the tortoise wins the race in the story? Because it has taken time to research the problem, instead of leaping to conclusions and acting on them as the hare does (blindly 'haring' ahead). The old are slow and thorough, seeing every detail - youth rushes on, only catching general impressions of everything and nothing in particular: Still (old) waters run deep - fast streams are shallow and empty headed. Which of these views best suits the scientific approach do you think and which the attitude of the lack of thinking it opposes? Which is also the mature attitude of 'stubbornness' of old age and which the fast paced life of avoidance by the young? (This is not saying all young people are this way (old heads on young shoulders) or all old people (second childhood) but that this is the general trend and what makes both what they are as observable fact - the enthusiasm but ignorance of the novice and the lack of patience of those who have seen it/ done it / been there before).

[Michaelangelica]

That's some good wisdom there.

. . .

 

But seriously, great advice.

Use it or lose it. :)

 

arrogance and assertiveness are different things

"You are aggressive

He is arrogant

I am assertive'

(present company excluded);)

[Pyrotex]

...The old are slow and thorough, seeing every detail - youth rushes on...).

Consarn it, you young whippersnapper!! :):evil:;)

You're missing other options. How about us "victors"* who are old and fast, catching the overall contours of reality and striking with the speed of a cobra at the relevant details, absorbing it all, and in an eyeblink, arriving at inductive conclusions that youth cannot even dream of in their wildest Spiderman fantasies?

 

Hunh? How about US?

 

*from "Victor Mature". As in, old winner. That was a pun. Never mind, you'll get it some day. If you live that long. :D

[Peregrine]

You better hope we are!!!! I'm 65 and still very alert and learning something new everyday. I know younger people who aren't capable of rational thought!!!!. Don't look to your right, I may be driving the car next to you!!:)

 

I have become more interested in nature and the enviroment since I have retired...I cook from scratch(something I never had time for when the kids were growing up). I am eating better...Just loving life. Its all a matter of attitude!!!;)

[Michaelangelica]

"Our study indicated that being a teenage father was an independent risk factor for adverse birth outcomes, whereas advanced paternal age was not

Teenage Fathers Are More Likely To Have Babies Affected By Birth Problems Than Fathers Over 40

 

:)

[Kriminal99]

This thread seems to have been bogged down with crappy arguments and metaphors, when despite the title the original premise is something that the thread starter did not make up himself.

 

He isn't even claiming that older people become stupider somehow, although there is a generally recognized physical decline in the part of the brain responsible for storing new long term memories as one ages. What that means? Who knows for sure.

 

He is referring to a perhaps deterministic unwillingness to "not appear to already know everything".

 

Though it may be easy to make a specious argument to the contrary that looks meaningful to the untrained eye, I think he (and Sigmund Freud) have a point.

 

What else do they have?

 

Voicing an opinion and giving advice is all an older person can do in life towards people who are not immediate family and friends. If they don't know anything the rest of people do not who cares about them? Do any new people want to be a part of their life because they are just so fun to be around and attractive? Or do we avoid them because they make us fear our own mortality?

 

Maybe admitting you are wrong about something requires admitting to yourself "Well there is always next time". Is there a next time if your interaction with other people is limited to begin with and the one time you see them in a while you were wrong about some piece of advice you tried to give them?

 

One person said older people are more methodical because they are not trying to get laid. There are plenty of young people that care more about truth than stuff like that (anyone you might say has character) but I can see how removal of some factors like that might cause an older person who was that way earlier to start being more rational.

 

Stubbornness

 

This really doesn't address the main issue though which is are older people capable of admitting when they are wrong about something? I don't think the thread title was worded very well given what it was about. My guess is TZK posted it after getting into an argument with a stubborn old man and got frustrated that the guy used every trick in the book to avoid admitting that they were wrong about something. The main difference is that someone can be stubborn and still be capable of "rational thought" though perhaps not from the perspective of other people.

 

I think the difference in "stubbornness" between people of different ages is hard to notice unless you debate with people often enough to catch the subtle differences because most average people have trouble admitting when they are wrong.

 

Debater Differences

 

But what I have seen in my personal experience is that when you make a really good argument against something a younger person believes, they lose motivation to defend their point of view. They may not verbally admit they were wrong, but you might catch them 6 months later arguing the same point of view you were arguing to them before.

 

But with some people, your arguments are continuously ignored. Even when you know you hit that perfect argument that should get a point across, they just keep on going using various fallacies to keep up appearances. They will look through your whole post to find something that can be taken out of context to sound bad or something they can make a specious argument against. But to take something out of the middle of a post, you know they must have read the convincing part that blows their counter out of the water!

When you argue against this type, you know due to little clues like this - differences between them and other debaters.

 

How do they do it? They must see a strong argument and decide for some reason that they are not morally obligated to consider the opposing point of view nor is anything bad going to happen to them if they do not. And what group is believed to experience a moral decline due to aging? Older people.

 

Every single time I have come across this kind of Debater, I have found out or known them to be much older.

[DougF]

Kriminal99

This thread seems to have been bogged down with crappy arguments and metaphors' date=' when despite the title the original premise is something that the thread starter did not make up himself.

 

He isn't even claiming that older people become stupider somehow, although there is a generally recognized physical decline in the part of the brain responsible for storing new long term memories as one ages. What that means? Who knows for sure.

 

He is referring to a perhaps deterministic unwillingness to "not appear to already [/quote']

 

yes: your are right and being a Science forum, I for one think we could have kept a more level head and looked at it a Little more scientifically.

 

TZK

I once read something talking about what happens to a person's brain as they age. It was talking about how free radicals eventually damaged a certain portion of the person's brain (I think called the hyptholomus or some such) responsible for storing long term memories.

 

The study seemed to indicate that it was not known what the precise effects of this would be and that people with such damaged brains still appeared to be able to function in every day life.

 

Well I was able to find this on hypothalamus

Note: I Bolded the text in the quote.

 

Spontaneous Expression of Inducible Nitric Oxide Synthase in the Hypothalamus and Other Brain Regions of Aging Rats

This work is the first demonstration of an aging-related iNOS expression in the hypothalamus and other regions of the brain in experimental animals or humans. While NOS activity has been reported to be elevated in the brain from old rats (66' date=' 67, 68, 69), regional differences, conflicting data (69, 70), and the lack of identification of the different NOS isoforms involved, make the interpretation difficult. Our results show that the excessive production of NO in the aged hypothalamus is not accompanied by a parallel increase in NMDAR number, refuting the hypothesis that NO synthesis is elevated in the postsynaptic neurons of old rats by the stimulation of nNOS activity through the NMDAR. [b']Furthermore, the reduction of hypothalamic NMDAR with aging argues against a significant participation of these receptors in the increase in apoptosis and degenerative changes occurring in the brain of old rats [/b](46, 71). This also confirms our previous work (8) showing that the GnRH efflux in incubations of fragments of preoptic area-medial basal hypothalamic in response to NMDA was considerably attenuated by aging.

Spontaneous Expression of Inducible Nitric Oxide Synthase in the Hypothalamus and Other Brain Regions of Aging Rats -- Vernet et al. 139 (7): 3254 -- Endocrinology

 

Is this what you were talking about?

 

or maybe this.

Process For Storing And Erasing Long-term Memories Discovered

 

Prof. Yadin Dudai' date=' Head of the Weizmann Institute's Neurobiology Department, and his colleagues are challenging that view. They recently discovered that the process of storing long-term memories is much more dynamic, involving a miniature molecular machine that must run constantly to keep memories going. They also found that jamming the machine briefly can erase long-term memories. Their findings, which appeared August 16 in the journal Science, may pave the way to future treatments for memory problems.

[/quote']

Process For Storing And Erasing Long-term Memories Discovered

 

But this sounds more like what your talking about.

 

Current Research on Alzheimer's' date=' Memory Loss, and Aging[/size']

 

Memory loss is one of the most common complaints of aging. As we grow older, our brains require more time to remember, and our ability to concentrate may wane. A subset of elderly people who have mild memory loss is at a higher risk for developing Alzheimer's disease. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI), as it is known, may not affect daily living activities, but research suggests that 48% of individuals with MCI over the age of 65 will develop Alzheimer's within five years.

 

About four million Americans have Alzheimer's, making it the most common disease affecting the adult brain. After cancer and heart disease, Alzheimer's is the most common cause of death and the most costly disease to care for. Currently, 30% of people older than 85 have Alzheimer's and 50% of people in nursing homes have the disease.

 

Current Research on Alzheimer's, Memory Loss, and Aging

[Michaelangelica]

This thread seems to have been bogged down with crappy arguments and metaphors, when despite the title the original premise is something that the thread starter did not make up himself.

it would be nice to know what is meant because as it stands the thread title, is ageist, prejudicial, bigoted and offensive.

You might as well replace "older people" with 'women', 'blacks', 'Jews','Chinese' or whatever group you like to stereotype.

He isn't even claiming that older people become stupider somehow, although there is a generally recognized physical decline in the part of the brain responsible for storing new long term memories as one ages. What that means? Who knows for sure.

Again, what is he claiming? You are not clear on this point.

• We should talk more about change in the aging brain rather than about decline
  
• Some skills improve as we age
  
• Studies have shown a tremendous variability in how well people age and how, to a large extent, our actions influence the rate of improvement and/ or decline.
  

» Baby Boomers, Healthy Aging and Job Performance « Brain Fitness Revolution at SharpBrains

 

new findings in brain aging is that they indicate that the rate of change may be hastened or slowed by lifestyle factors. For instance, maintaining a lower weight might affect brain aging.

. . .

Other lifestyle factors that may affect brain aging:

 

Education: Those who 'use it, don't lose it' as quickly, according to studies

. .

genes play a large role in predetermining your brain's aging, researchers are beginning to agree that taking care of your health might help your long term brain function

. . .

we are long overdue in recognizing a simple fact: Cognitive loss is largely preventable.

The Aging Brain

Perhaps if we focused less on age related pathology and more on promoting health of retired or older people ;and how the older person can be used more effectively in society we would see less age-related, cognitive degeneration.

The Aging Brain

 

He is referring to a perhaps deterministic unwillingness to "not appear to already know everything".

 

Though it may be easy to make a specious argument to the contrary that looks meaningful to the untrained eye, I think he (and Sigmund Freud) have a point.

What does this mean?

What does Freud say?

 

Voicing an opinion and giving advice is all an older person can do in life towards people who are not immediate family and friends. If they don't know anything the rest of people do not who cares about them? Do any new people want to be a part of their life because they are just so fun to be around and attractive? Or do we avoid them because they make us fear our own mortality?

 

Maybe admitting you are wrong about something requires admitting to yourself "Well there is always next time". Is there a next time if your interaction with other people is limited to begin with and the one time you see them in a while you were wrong about some piece of advice you tried to give them?

??????????

One person said older people are more methodical because they are not trying to get laid.

An ageist assumption.:hihi:

There are plenty of young people that care more about truth than stuff like that (anyone you might say has character) but I can see how removal of some factors like that might cause an older person who was that way earlier to start being more rational.

 

Well certainly the large amount of tetosterone in Young males is a problem 16-23 years. This is why they kill them selves in cars and wars. Raising the mae legal driving age is being seriously considered in Australia because of the number of 17, 18, 19 YOds who kill themselves and others on the road

Testosterone is also responsible for differences in the structure and

function of the male brain.

Prenatal exposure to testosterone

enlarges a region of the hypothalamus involved in male-typical sex

behavior and increases the size of clusters of spinal cord neurons

that serve the external genitals.

As a result of higher levels of testosterone, males are more aggressive and self-confident.

There are cognitive differences as well. Males consistently outperform

females on tests of spatial ability and mathematics, although they

do not perform as well as women on tests of verbal ability

Testosterone:

Heaps of hormone floating around in your body (especially your genitals "making males are more aggressive and self-confident.' does not sound very "rational"

Young men in particular fight for respect, resources and

ultimately to be chosen by women.

 

They pursue these goals with displays of boasting, bragging, showing off

and attempts to humiliate competitor males.

 

These displays can spill over into face-to-face aggression.

 

In all societies where murder is documented 80% of homicides are committed by males.

Most of these are committed by young men , where an acquaintance is

the victim, and where the incident has been precipitated by an attempt to humiliate, or by being the target of a perceived humiliation (disrespect, 'dissing'

This "young persons'" behaviour does not sound very "rational" to me.

A modern instinct theory of aggression

 

So we could rephrase the question "Are teenagers (or "young people -especially males) capable of Rational Thought"?

Of course this is just as silly a generalisation as the original; thread topic. Testosterone levels can vary a lot in males, and males vary a lot in all intellectual capacities all though life.

But there are obvious problems with males at both ends of the age spectrum.

 

B]Stubbornness[/b]

 

This really doesn't address the main issue though which is are older people capable of admitting when they are wrong about something? I don't think the thread title was worded very well given what it was about. My guess is TZK posted it after getting into an argument with a stubborn old man and got frustrated that the guy used every trick in the book to avoid admitting that they were wrong about something. The main difference is that someone can be stubborn and still be capable of "rational thought" though perhaps not from the perspective of other people.

 

I think the difference in "stubbornness" between people of different ages is hard to notice unless you debate with people often enough to catch the subtle differences because most average people have trouble admitting when they are wrong.

 

Debater Differences

 

But what I have seen in my personal experience is that when you make a really good argument against something a younger person believes, they lose motivation to defend their point of view. They may not verbally admit they were wrong, but you might catch them 6 months later arguing the same point of view you were arguing to them before.

 

But with some people, your arguments are continuously ignored. Even when you know you hit that perfect argument that should get a point across, they just keep on going using various fallacies to keep up appearances. They will look through your whole post to find something that can be taken out of context to sound bad or something they can make a specious argument against. But to take something out of the middle of a post, you know they must have read the convincing part that blows their counter out of the water!

When you argue against this type, you know due to little clues like this - differences between them and other debaters.

 

How do they do it? They must see a strong argument and decide for some reason that they are not morally obligated to consider the opposing point of view nor is anything bad going to happen to them if they do not. And what group is believed to experience a moral decline due to aging? Older people.

 

What are you saying? Older people are more stubborn and "closed minded"?

 

Perhaps we are just talking about the male of the species and older men are less intimidated by younger men's testosterone?

 

Look to the many threads/arguments here on hypography.

 

Rationality does not change attitudes and values-young or old.

 

Psychologists have been studding what does,for years. Things like peer group and social status seem to be the sort of things that change 'others' opinions.

 

Even scientists who profess to believe in the scientific method will ignore anything that conflicts with their own opinions or world view.

 

 

Every single time I have come across this kind of Debater, I have found out or known them to be much older.

Not a random sample of the population. You cannot generalise or extrapolate from a personal observation. It has little, or no, scientific credibility.

[paigetheoracle]

it would be nice to know what is meant because as it stands the thread title, is ageist, prejudicial, bigoted and offensive.

You might as well replace "older people" with 'women', 'blacks', 'Jews','Chinese' or whatever group you like to stereotype.

 

Again, what is he claiming? You are not clear on this point.

• We should talk more about change in the aging brain rather than about decline
  
• Some skills improve as we age
  
• Studies have shown a tremendous variability in how well people age and how, to a large extent, our actions influence the rate of improvement and/ or decline.
  

» Baby Boomers, Healthy Aging and Job Performance « Brain Fitness Revolution at SharpBrains

 

 

The Aging Brain

Perhaps if we focused less on age related pathology and more on promoting health of retired or older people ;and how the older person can be used more effectively in society we would see less age-related, cognitive degeneration.

The Aging Brain

 

 

What does this mean?

What does Freud say?

 

 

??????????

 

An ageist assumption.:hihi:

 

 

Well certainly the large amount of tetosterone in Young males is a problem 16-23 years. This is why they kill them selves in cars and wars. Raising the mae legal driving age is being seriously considered in Australia because of the number of 17, 18, 19 YOds who kill themselves and others on the road

 

Testosterone:

Heaps of hormone floating around in your body (especially your genitals "making males are more aggressive and self-confident.' does not sound very "rational"

 

This "young persons'" behaviour does not sound very "rational" to me.

A modern instinct theory of aggression

 

So we could rephrase the question "Are teenagers (or "young people -especially males) capable of Rational Thought"?

Of course this is just as silly a generalisation as the original; thread topic. Testosterone levels can vary a lot in males, and males vary a lot in all intellectual capacities all though life.

But there are obvious problems with males at both ends of the age spectrum.

 

B]Stubbornness[/b]

 

This really doesn't address the main issue though which is are older people capable of admitting when they are wrong about something? I don't think the thread title was worded very well given what it was about. My guess is TZK posted it after getting into an argument with a stubborn old man and got frustrated that the guy used every trick in the book to avoid admitting that they were wrong about something. The main difference is that someone can be stubborn and still be capable of "rational thought" though perhaps not from the perspective of other people.

 

I think the difference in "stubbornness" between people of different ages is hard to notice unless you debate with people often enough to catch the subtle differences because most average people have trouble admitting when they are wrong.

 

Debater Differences

 

But what I have seen in my personal experience is that when you make a really good argument against something a younger person believes, they lose motivation to defend their point of view. They may not verbally admit they were wrong, but you might catch them 6 months later arguing the same point of view you were arguing to them before.

 

 

 

What are you saying? Older people are more stubborn and "closed minded"?

 

Perhaps we are just talking about the male of the species and older men are less intimidated by younger men's testosterone?

 

Look to the many threads/arguments here on hypography.

 

Rationality does not change attitudes and values-young or old.

 

Psychologists have been studding what does,for years. Things like peer group and social status seem to be the sort of things that change 'others' opinions.

 

Even scientists who profess to believe in the scientific method will ignore anything that conflicts with their own opinions or world view.

 

 

 

Not a random sample of the population. You cannot generalise or extrapolate from a personal observation. It has little, or no, scientific credibility.

 

I think the reason we lose long term memory capabilities as we grow older, is that we lose interest in life itself from over exposure to it (White out effect). Also maybe we reach a limit to what we can store in our brains. Memory and identity go together, so maybe as we get older, again it's a question of becoming sick of where we are, what we are and what we are holding onto (our prejudices i.e. beliefs about the world and how it works).

 

As for the young and accidents, the opposite is true. They are newly arrived here, so are excitable and impulsive - hence losing arguments and adopting new ones (trying out ideas, just like they try out experiences).

 

Could stubborness be trying to hold onto territory/ identity? (lose my idea, lose my certainty of who or what I am and my motive for doing things).

 

Peer pressure and channging your mind - I'd agree with that. Again that's about wanting to belong and identifying yourself with something or someone, rather than standing for the truth (only true individuals stand for the truth because they don't have this bias for belonging)

[Michaelangelica]

I think the reason we lose long term memory capabilities as we grow older

,

That is not a QED, done deal.

1. Chronological age - How we define our number of years in existence. Chronological age is only one way to determine age.

 

2. Biological or Physical age - How we view age by physical signs. Physical age is the by-product of DNA damage and repair deficit.

 

3. Functional age - How we function as a subset of biological age.

 

4. Psychological age - How old we feel we are.

 

5. Emotional age - How we adjust to circumstances that cause us to be rational or irrational.

 

6. Intellectual age - How we think critically about ourselves and the world around us

AGELESS THINKING by Natasha Vita-More

 

is that we lose interest in life itself from over exposure to it (White out effect).

That is depression a medical condition that needs to be treated.

Also maybe we reach a limit to what we can store in our brains

.

I don't think we have atwo gig hard drive and that is it. Again i think you would be hard pressed to prove that stement as we continue to create new neurons all though life and we are still not sure exactly how information is stored and retrieved. (Why bother now when you have Google?)

Memory and identity go together, so maybe as we get older, again it's a question of becoming sick of where we are, what we are and what we are holding onto (our prejudices i.e. beliefs about the world and how it works).

Symptoms of clinical depression

 

As for the young and accidents, the opposite is true. They are newly arrived here, so are excitable and impulsive - hence losing arguments and adopting new ones (trying out ideas, just like they try out experiences).

Some times.

Again the big generalisation some are scared, timid damaged and frightened.

 

Could stubborness be trying to hold onto territory/ identity? (lose my idea, lose my certainty of who or what I am and my motive for doing things).

Any age or gender can be stubborn.

Can you show that it is a personality trait more prevalent in any particular age group?

 

Peer pressure and channging your mind - I'd agree with that. Again that's about wanting to belong and identifying yourself with something or someone, rather than standing for the truth (only true individuals stand for the truth because they don't have this bias for belonging)

The first question a male asks another on first meeting is

"So, what do you do?"

From there it is an interrogation on status, so each can get their pecking order right.

 

"At death, the boys with the most toys win.'

[DougF]

Michaelangelica

because as it stands the thread title' date=' is ageist, prejudicial, bigoted and offensive. [/quote']

 

:)

 

 

 

 

 

As you grow older, you'll find the only things you regret are the things you didn't do.

 

Zachary Scott

[paigetheoracle]

,

That is not a QED, done deal.

 

(1) In general - you were the one that mentioned it, although it was in the post just before or just after the one I wrongly quoted from. It's not a done deal for all individuals.

 

AGELESS THINKING by Natasha Vita-More

 

 

That is depression a medical condition that needs to be treated.

.

I don't think we have atwo gig hard drive and that is it. Again i think you would be hard pressed to prove that stement as we continue to create new neurons all though life and we are still not sure exactly how information is stored and retrieved. (Why bother now when you have Google?)

 

(2) Does a computer store everything on it or do you clear old material off it because it doesn't have an infinite capacity anymore than an attic does?

 

Symptoms of clinical depression

 

(3) See my thread on SAD, when I put it up

 

Some times.

Again the big generalisation some are scared, timid damaged and frightened.

 

(4) Do they come into this world scared, timid and frightened? This could mean you're implying reincarnation rather than present life trauma, changing them!

 

 

Any age or gender can be stubborn.

Can you show that it is a personality trait more prevalent in any particular age group?

 

(5) No, it's a tactic but older people are more likely to be stubborn because of their life experiences, where a youthful attitude is to try anything

 

The first question a male asks another on first meeting is

"So, what do you do?"

From there it is an interrogation on status, so each can get their pecking order right.

 

"At death, the boys with the most toys win.'

 

By the way do you believe in The 'General' Theory of Relativity? Tut, tut!

[Kriminal99]

You might as well replace "older people" with 'women', 'blacks', 'Jews','Chinese' or whatever group you like to stereotype.

 

That would be a totally different. This is the crappy argument type I was referring to.

 

Psychologists have been studding what does,for years. Things like peer group and social status seem to be the sort of things that change 'others' opinions.

 

Even scientists who profess to believe in the scientific method will ignore anything that conflicts with their own opinions or world view.

 

Not a random sample of the population. You cannot generalise or extrapolate from a personal observation. It has little, or no, scientific credibility.

 

That is ignorant. I agreed that most people are like that, but most people are ignorant.

 

In fact that is why older people can cause such a problem. If I know X that goes against social norms, everyone who claims to believe X might try to make an argument defending it. If I then blow all of those arguments out of the water (they usually just consist of various fallacies) then they lose motivation to fight.

 

But if some idiot just feels no moral obligation to be honest and would just say anything to win the argument, he prevents anyone from learning anything by refusing to let it be shown that there is no counter to what I presented.

 

And Older people always do that because they just don't care. How is it you think the prediction population is different from the sample population? Random people on the internet, Random people in person etc. Old people are stubborn everywhere...

[Buffy]

...most people are ignorant...

 

...and how's that workin' for ya?

 

He who wishes to exert a useful influence must be careful to insult nothing, :)

Buffy

[Michaelangelica]

That would be a totally different. This is the crappy argument type I was referring to.

How different?

How is this "crappy"?

 

That is ignorant. I agreed that most people are like that, but most people are ignorant.

Are "MOST" people ignorant?

How do you know?

Are you sure that you are the only one 'in-step"?

In fact that is why older people can cause such a problem.

What problem is that?

If I know X that goes against social norms, everyone who claims to believe X might try to make an argument defending it. If I then blow all of those arguments out of the water (they usually just consist of various fallacies) then they lose motivation to fight.

Do "they"? An example would help me understand what you are talking about. Remeber "I grow old …" and already

" wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled."

So simplicity is best.

But if some idiot just feels no moral obligation to be honest and would just say anything to win the argument, he prevents anyone from learning anything by refusing to let it be shown that there is no counter to what I presented.

What YOU presented, I see.

Are you saying old people are amoral?

I'm sure many may like to be but I don't think that is the case.

And Older people always do that because they just don't care.

very sterotypical and prejudicial comments. Please support your outrageous claims or take your toys and go home.

How is it you think the prediction population is different from the sample population? Random people on the internet, Random people in person etc.

care about what in particular?-

• you and your very precious opinions?
  
• life?
  
• the univese?
  
• god?
  
• environment?
  
• social justice?
  

Old people are stubborn everywhere...

Really? Please support you prejudice with some facts.

How "old" is your "old'?

 

 

paigetheoracle

Sorry sometimes hard to work out where you comments start and mine end -but we will bat on as Gilchrest would say.

(4) Do they come into this world scared, timid and frightened? This could mean you're implying reincarnation rather than present life trauma, changing them!

Sorry, I think reiincranation is rubbish

Can you show me where it has worked?

I believe genes, epigenetic and life experiences and the way we interpret them make us what we are today.

I think there is more evidence to support that position than Ophra's "past lives" - new age crap

Most people on earth are wounded in some way.

You discover that as you get older.

 

(2) Does a computer store everything on it or do you clear old material off it because it doesn't have an infinite capacity anymore than an attic does?

The computer is an oft-used but poor model of the human brain. I do not think it is a valid simile/metaphor at all. The brain is infinitely complex, "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." ... or your computer It is likely that the 'brain' is in every cell of your body- -not just behind the thick bone on your head.

(5) No, it's a tactic but older people are more likely to be stubborn because of their life experiences, where a youthful attitude is to try anything

I am tempted to say 'arrant nonsense" but, this being a science forum. I will refrain.

I have never seen any psychological research that supports you opinion, but being old and flexible, I am willing to be educated.

What studies would you like me to look at that support your bold assertion?