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What Americans, USAans, yanks, beleive.


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#1 Michaelangelica

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 12:16 AM

Just reading chapter 9 of Michael Moor's "Dude, Where is my Country"

I will summarise it for you here, but the whole book is well worth a read.
It is very iconoclastic.

  • 57% of yanks befleive that abortiontion should be legal in all or most cases.
  • 86% of Yanks agree with the Civil rights Movement.
  • four out of five yanks say it is important for colleges to have racally diverse student bodiesOver 50% believe affirmative action is necessary
  • 83% are in agreement with the goals of the environmental movement
  • 85% are worried by lake and river pollution.
  • 78% are worried about air pollution
  • 60% want more energy conservation
  • 94% want Federal safety regulations enacted on the manufacture and use of all handguns
  • 73% want mandatory background checks on anyone buying a gun
  • 59% of yanks in NY want ab an on handguns.
  • 64% of Michigan NRA members favour mandatory reporting of handgun sales
  • 59%of Michigan NRA members favoured regulations requiring that guns be stored unloaded
  • 68% of Michigan NRA members want uniform safety standards for domestic and imported guns
  • 8 in 10 Yanks believe that health insurance should be provided equally to everyone in the country.
  • 62% support changing laws so that FEWER non-violent offenders are sent to prison
  • 76% beleive that offendors would be better on the outside making restitution to their victims than by being locked away
  • 74% prefer treatment and probation for non-violet drug users.
  • 85% of yanks support equal opportunity in the workplace for gays and lesbians
  • 58% thought labour unions were a good idea.
  • 60% of yanks want a moratorium on executions

I found many of those figures surprising. (2003 figures)

What a liberal, liberated, free thinking country.

How come you don't vote for politicians to give you what you want?

We have got rid of our Little Bush (AKA "Bonsai") -Your turn now.

Do you have to vote Green and forget the democrats and republicans?

#2 modest

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:02 AM

How come you don't vote for politicians to give you what you want?


I’m gonna go ahead and assume you’ve never been to the US. Here are some statistics I’m making up as I go:

80% of Americans don’t answer the phone for surveys
70% don’t answer the phone ever
60% lie about what they want (especially when answering survey questions)
50% have no idea what they want

and most important…

9 out of 10 think there is something wrong with what they want. If they want sex then they immediately start a petition to get pornography and other sex-related industry out of their community. If they want drugs then they elect public officials promising harsher prison sentences for drug-offenders. If they want food - well, that’s a bad example - we eat a lot!

But yeah, if we want something we immediately seem to assume it’s bad and move to extinguish it from existence. This is probably above all the reason most liberal voters elect Bushish candidates. It’s a puritan thing the scope of which can’t really be understood until you spend some time here.

#3 DougF

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 06:12 AM

We also believe,
that there will be a cure for cancer, AIDS and a whole host of other diseases.
We believe that if treat people the way we want to be treated, then maybe they will return the favor.
We believe that if we didn't have to spend all the monies on war, we could feed the world, cure hunger, fight disease.


We believe there is much to do and no time to do it. :cup:



:eek: :doh: :cup:

#4 Zythryn

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 07:46 AM

Many ideals are easy to agree with. A lot depends upon marketing though as we yanks are a consumer driven society.
For example, if you ask 1000 people that live along a section of river "Are you concerned that tens of thousands of gallons of industrial waste are dumped into the river upstream from you" you will get a largely positive answer to 'are you concerned about river polution'
Then another survey taker asks "Would you want food to become scarce due to not allowing poor farmers along the river to use fertilizer, which helps plants thrive, on their crops" you will get a largely negative answer which you then summarize as 'are you concerned about riveer polution'

And, as Mike C has brought up numerous times, and one of the few areas I agree with him on, money buys elections in the USA. If you can spin enough issues as the above in 30 second comercials you sway enough of the voters to get elected. Allowing ONLY public money and the same amount of money for each canidate would go a long way to putting things back on track.

Also remember, Bush was only elected by a little under half of the people that actually voted (51.3%). So Bush was first elected by about a quarter of the population that was of voting age.

#5 Michaelangelica

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 12:46 PM

But yeah, if we want something we immediately seem to assume it’s bad and move to extinguish it from existence. This is probably above all the reason most liberal voters elect Bushish candidates. It’s a puritan thing the scope of which can’t really be understood until you spend some time here.

I have been to the States and was treated with great kindness and generosity.
I don't know how accurate the statistics/surveys are but they point to a much more Liberal,thoughtful & compassionate society that the Red-Necked one that is often portrayed
The NRA surveys were especially surprising
Other stats include
  • 56% of Michigan NRA members polled supported a law for a five day waiting period for ag un
  • 55% Michigan NRA mebers were in favour of banning high capacity magazines that hold amunition
    and
  • only 25% of Yanks own a gun.

We believe that if we didn't have to spend all the monies on war, we could feed the world, cure hunger, fight disease.

Another great comment Doug.
How many friends would the USA make if you spent the 3/4s of a Trillion dollars you spend year on defence eliminating disease and poverty?
You could do it, too, with that sort of money.

A slight digression on aid-
At the moment a lot of USA Aid sadly goes to propping up the current political and or corporate agenda (eg Israel)
It is often stated that "The USA gives half of all word aid."
This might be true overall, but on a per capita basis Australia gives twice as much as the USA.
You would expect US aid to be large overall as their Economy is the biggest in the world..
The top six counties per capita are

* Luxembourg:
* Denmark:
* Norway:
* Netherlands:
* Sweden:
* United Kingdom:

Also much US aid is tied to trade and political considerations
For example Aid to Israel accounts for over 12% of total US foreign Aid.
Many US aid programmes (about 90%) are "tied" to force recipient countries to buy USA services and products with the Aid the US gives.

While personal as well as Government Aid is also large., figures often include migrant workers remittances back "home"
For example Latin America alone received some $45 billion in remittances in 2004, almost 27% of the total private Aid

The amount given for the Indonesian Tsunami was generous but with government and private donations it amounted to about $2 per head.
Many less dramatic and newsworthy events receive little notice in the US media. These are the "orphaned disasters," they are not on TV and they are ignored and overlooked

#6 modest

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 04:14 PM

I have been to the States and was treated with great kindness and generosity.
I don't know how accurate the statistics/surveys are but they point to a much more Liberal,thoughtful & compassionate society that the Red-Necked one that is often portrayed
The NRA surveys were especially surprising

I'm glad you said that Michaelangelica and I think you're very correct. The average "Red-Neck" American (of which I am philosophically opposed diametrically) is not so much like what people see in the media or on TV or film. In fact, when I lived in the south (for about a year), and now living in the midwest, I hear one thing above all others from foreign visitors. How nice everybody is. How kind and helpful and how unexpected that is. I don't know why this is so unexpected. Perhaps it is the perception generated by media - but it is amazing how often I've heard this from people from every continent.

"Southern hospitality" is very much alive and well in red-neck America. While people of the south often have very different political views and agendas than liberals like myself, this should not be taken to the assumption that they are uncompassionate or uncaring or the like. A quick example - When I lived in Louisiana (the redneck part) the person in the opposite apartment saw that my car was a piece of crap. He took the initiative to obtain a better-functioning car his parents weren't using and basically 'gave' it to me for a few months. This was no great friend of mine - just a neighbor with whom I honestly had little in common. This kind of sentiment (from everything I've experienced) is generally extended to anyone who lives in or is visiting the south.

Now - you're from Oz and from everything I've heard (never been down under myself) your countrymen and countrywoman are the liveliest and best spirited folk around. So, please, don't think I'm comparing countries here. Besides, France would make such a better comparison :eek_big:

I suppose someone will make the argument that the conservative agenda is un-compassionate in and of itself. And I would mostly agree with that. However, this should not be used as a broad brush to paint the character of the people who support such policies - IMHO, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

-modest
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#7 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:14 PM

In responce to those survey answers.....:eek_big::hihi::):hihi::turtle::hihi::camera::hihi::cup::hihi::cup::hihi::):hihi::D:hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi:

Sorry....:hihi:......no seriously, I'm sorry:hihi::hihi:

A well armed populace = low crime rates:)

Unions suck (the life out their employers and the consumers that purchase their products and services):doh:

nug control leads only to well armed criminals (I watched a shootout on a "cops" type reality show where the police had to locate more powerful firearms to bring about an end to the situation, the criminals had bigger nugs and body armour):doh:

War sucks and paying for it sucks worse:doh:

Bush was not elected by the people :doh:

polls and surveys in a country where filling out an electoral ballot is too overly complicated to do properly are worthless:doh:

more Americans would GaS about the environment if it weren't soooooooooo
inconvenient
to engage in a more environmentaly friendly way of life:doh:

(more to follow time fer sup)

#8 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:45 PM

Lastly I'm soooooo sick and fkn tired of America being regarded as a wealthy nation.

Yes for the most part we're better of than some '"third-world" nations...

No the majority of americans are not so well off as portreyed by the media...

90% of the people I know and/or work with make ends meet and that's about it (myself included... I'm presently looking for job #2 in hopes of not losing my house...aparently working 60 hours a week isn't enough! Wifey puts in a 50 hour week too. Fuc#ing inflation!!)

#9 Michaelangelica

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 07:26 AM

You guys don't need anyone else to put you down do you?

celebrate -- the fact that one of the whitest states in the U.S. just voted for a black man to be our next president.

the most important news out of the caucus this evening was the whopping, room-busting turnout of Democrats. 239,000 people showed up to vote Democratic tonight (93% more than in '04, which was a record year), while only 115,000 showed up to vote Republican. And this is a red state!

MichaelMoore.com : "It's the War," Says Iowa to Hillary -- And a "Happy Blue Year" To All! ...from Michael Moore
What a V-e-r-y long, involved, mind-numbing process this seems to be.
No wonder USA people get tired, bored and switched off.
Please wake me up in 9 months time when the 30% of you who vote , do.

#10 DougF

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:49 AM

Michaelangelica
What a V-e-r-y long, involved, mind-numbing process this seems to be.
No wonder USA people get tired, bored and switched off.
Please wake me up in 9 months time when the 30% of you who vote , do.

You're right V-E-R-Y long and I do get tired of hearing it,
they started the campaigning earlier this time then last time and at this rate there won't be no break, :doh: can you imagine campaign commercials 365 24/7 for four years, they seem to have all the money they need. ;)
Quick wake me up I believe I'm having a nightmare. :shrug:

#11 modest

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 07:50 PM

You're right V-E-R-Y long and I do get tired of hearing it,
they started the campaigning earlier this time then last time and at this rate there won't be no break, :camera: can you imagine campaign commercials 365 24/7 for four years, they seem to have all the money they need. :(
Quick wake me up I believe I'm having a nightmare. :fire:


I like the long campaign trail. Make them jump through hoops I say. It should be a long and labored process. Every time I hear that a politician has been nonstop campaigning without sleep making multiple stops in multiple states for days - I get a bit of a grin.

I look at the Iowa, and other, caucuses like elimination rounds much like you'd see on a reality show. If only we could get Jeff Probst to host it and maybe throw in some humiliating reward challenges. :eek:

#12 Leila Night

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 04:01 AM

What a liberal, liberated, free thinking country.

How come you don't vote for politicians to give you what you want?

We're slow? N.J. Governor Signs Death Penalty Ban Into Law - December 18, 2007 - The New York Sun :shrug:

Many of us hate what we have, but most of the time, we're not really empowered to make any really changes. Like take for example, we all know, Constitutionally, a president cannot declare war... but... it happens and has been happening for ~40 years. How do you fight something like that? And the only politicians who call it like is are marginalized (Ron Paul) and people don't feel voting for them is worth it. :eek:

Do you have to vote Green and forget the democrats and republicans?

Voting Green is seen as wasting your vote. If it was clear voting for the Green Party is actually a smart strategy, people would do it. And last midterm elections, people did (with victories, in some cases) on the local and state levels.


Overall, very positive thread.
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#13 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 02:52 PM

Hi Leila Night:)

Sounds about right to me...yup...

I say vote Libertarian!:hihi: But as you know that's a lost cause:doh:

People don't really want a Govt. that will stay out of their business I guess.:doh:

There are just far too many bleeding hearts and deep pockets hell bent on destroying this democracy...and ushering in communism....Where those that "know what's best for us" decide how we will live and what we can do in our own lives.
To enforce "morality" at all costs
Making new laws to eliminate anything unsafe
to eliminate anything that may offend anyone
to ensure that all of the poor are equally poor and the wealthy few... gods (seeing as they obviously know what's best)
To protect us from ourselves:xx::xx::xx::eek:
:xx::xx::xx::whip-new:YOU WILL SUBMITT!:xx::xx::xx::shrug:
YOU WILL ASSIMILATE!!:xx::xx::xx::eek:
B:xx::xx::xx::whip-new:BOW TO YOUR NEW MASTERS!!:xx::xx::xx::doh:

Man I hate republicans and pretty much everyone that supports them.:rant:

on a final note :

:hi:Bring back Mr. Clinton!!!!!!!! I'd vote for him a third time!!!!!:hi:

#14 HydrogenBond

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 04:55 PM

America was forged on the spirits of patriot, pioneer, wild west and diversity. What that means is a disregard for stupid laws, a willingness to explore and look to the future, a sense of restlessness and self, and an attitude where any lifestyle is possible. For example, the drug laws are harsh in the US, but millions just ignore it. It is part of the duty of a patriot to resist oppression. It is sort of based on the Boston Tea Party, where high level policy in England was ignored using criminal activity. The British came down hard but lost the war. The drug war has been fought for decades and the Patriots don't give in. It sounds lawless, but it is part of the American spirit.

The pioneering spirit of America is not afraid to leave the stability of the past and present and head out into the wilderness looking for a brighter future. America is still the innovation capital of the world. Part of its pioneer spirit is connected to the gold rushes, where one takes a risk, with a dream, that they will find a vein of gold.

The diversity aspect of America results in pockets of everything. One can talk about America in terms of the mainstream average. But if you look a little deeper, one can find anything. America is not just a blend of almost all cultures, but also a blend of retro and cutting edge. From the wholesome to the perverted, from gifted to idiots. We got the entire spectrum.

The wild west is also a part of being an American. Often Americans are not perceived to be as cultured and refined as many European countries. In America there are many pockets culture and refinement. But there is also a restless wild west spirit. The constant barrage of products is needed because this restlessness makes things quickly boring, requiring a constant flux of change and variety. The various mafias are a problem but many people hold a place for them, deep down, since they are children of the wild west.

America was founding on religious freedom via Christian-Judeo. This is sort of one of sturdy bookends of America. The other bookend is in flux, driven by the American spirits of wild pioneering patriots. But if you add it all together Americans are a full diversity slanted toward the good side. It is still the most generous nation of all time. We even give other cultures things don't want, as they try to maintain there cultural pasts.

#15 Michaelangelica

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 02:56 AM

Security fears if trust in the US keeps eroding

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Alan Dupont | December 10, 2007

THE national survey commissioned by the University of Sydney's United States Studies Centre is a unique and fascinating snapshot of Australian attitudes towards contemporary American institutions, society and culture. The survey reveals a surprising ambivalence about the US and a growing disconnect between Australian and American values which, if not reversed, spells trouble ahead for the special relationship.

More than 50 per cent of those surveyed expressed some dislike of Americans and their culture and there was a marked decline in support for US values and institutions. Only about a third had a "very" or "somewhat favourable" view of religion, race relations and social and economic equality in the US. Gun control, or the absence of it, was viewed as a major negative, reflecting the corrosive impact of the seemingly unending, graphic images of mall massacres and public shootings that are an unfortunate characteristic of modern American life.

Security fears if trust in the US keeps eroding | The Australian
You see no one told Australians that only 25% of you have guns and most want them locked up. (as against 5.2% (Wiki) of Australians who own guns -many are farmers who need to control feral animals etc))

#16 Mike C

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 07:29 AM

Angelica

I am in agreement with the majority on those opinions above except the last one.

I support capital punishment, but only when there is 'guilt' beyond an 'absolute' doubt for homicide, attempted homicide or 'implied' homicide.
Notice the word substitution. The word murder is an insult to our mothers(?)
Its the subliminal psychology here.

There are cases where 'guilt' beyond an absolute doubt do exist.
Our leniency on this issue is probably the reason why we have the highest crime rate in the world. Of course, that does not include the political and religious (purification) crimes committed in some countries.

Outlawing the 'recreation' drugs just keeps the drug lords in business and all the street peddlers that spread these drugs among the population.

The outlawing of prostitution is outlawing the Natural GOD's natural heterosexual sex that just creates more spousal homicides, rapes, pedophilia, homosexuals, lesbians and also contributes to more masterbations.
Does that make sense?

Our countries top leadership is addicted to dollars as our surrogate god that is a substitute for gold. Well, you can not eat gold although it is a remarkable metal that the chauvinists admire.

Mike C

#17 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 04:57 PM

Security fears if trust in the US keeps eroding | The Australian
You see no one told Australians that only 25% of you have guns and most want them locked up. (as against 5.2% (Wiki) of Australians who own guns -many are farmers who need to control feral animals etc))


I assure you that that figure is inaccurate...in my entire life I've never known a person (internet not included) that didn't own or been in a house where there wasn't at least a rifle for hunting . (Not everyone I know hunts though so some of the rifles are simply belonged to a relative that passed it down to them)

I own three a 50 cal rifle, a 32 special longrifle, and a sawed off 12 gauge (double barrel breech load), also a crossbow (my shoulders are too frigged up to use a conventional bow.)

Dad has a few as do all 4 of my uncles, countless cousins, and all of my friends and coworkers (or in some cases their husbands own them technicaly).