Five years of Guantanamo: Justice delayed is justice denied

[Fatstep]

When I said it's best for nat. security, I was syaing that from their P.O.V. not mine.

 

And I can't defend them when I don't even agree with them doing it.

 

One reason the Geneva Conventions don't matter a.t.m.is the Constitution is the 'Supreme Law of the Land", so to us (U.S.) it over rules the Geneva Conventions, and It was made almost 100 years before the conventions.

[CraigD]

And I can't defend them when I don't even agree with them doing it.

I find that personally comforting – too many, IMHO, believe that good character requires unquestioning agreement with one’s leaders.

One reason the Geneva Conventions don't matter a.t.m. is the Constitution is the 'Supreme Law of the Land", so to us (U.S.) it over rules the Geneva Conventions, and It was made almost 100 years before the conventions.

As a signer and of the Third Geneva Convention (the one that addresses the treatment of prisoners of war), the US government has agreed to abide by its rules, and the requirement that US citizens do has the weight of US law, even though those rules are not part of the US legal code.

 

Though it’s difficult to obtain clear explanations from US government officials and spokespersons, my impression is that the main argument put forth is that, since the forth convention was signed and ratified (in 1949 and 1955, respectively), a new class of person, the “enemy combatant”, a person who is neither civilian nor soldier, exists, and is not addressed by the Geneva Conventions, nor the legal codes of any nation.

 

IMHO, this interpretation is a throwback to the idea that Executives – be they presidents or kings – should be able to act without regard to civil law. I don’t believe this interpretation is good for the People of the US or the world.

[Fatstep]

As a signer and of the Third Geneva Convention (the one that addresses the treatment of prisoners of war), the US government has agreed to abide by its rules, and the requirement that US citizens do has the weight of US law, even though those rules are not part of the US legal code.

 

 

True, but who listens to the U.N. lately, not the U.S. Also, just because we signed them doesn't mean we will be punished for breaking them, I'm sure that's how they think of it. Was it not the U.S. that made countries sign agreements saying they wouldn't do anything to the U.S.'s soldiers if they break the conventions? I may have that a little screwed up but I think you get the gist :evil:

 

Btw, what's IMOH mean? In My Own Head/Opinion?

[CraigD]

Btw, what's IMOH mean? In My Own Head/Opinion?

IMHO is a common acronym for “in my honest opinion” or “in my humble opinion”, and is often used to mean just “in my opinion”. According to this site, one of many internet acronym finders, it has several more, less common meanings, but I personally only use it to mean “in my opinion”.

[Fatstep]

Thanks :evil:

[Michaelangelica]

 

One reason the Geneva Conventions don't matter a.t.m.is the Constitution is the 'Supreme Law of the Land", so to us (U.S.) it over rules the Geneva Conventions, and It was made almost 100 years before the conventions.

Bush has said that the rules of Geneva convention will apply in GB jail (He made this statement 6 months or so ago)

 

I don't think they do

 

Send Hicks home if you won't give him a fair trial.

 

We will put him in jail if you like (We will have to invent a new crime maybe "stupidity").

At least he will see the Sun and have access to family and Vegemite.

[Fatstep]

The thing I don't understand is why even grant them amnesty, they haven't even been prosecuted yet. There is nothing to pardon them for.

[Michaelangelica]

The thing I don't understand is why even grant them amnesty, they haven't even been prosecuted yet. There is nothing to pardon them for.

No one is asking for a pardon (?)

 

In a democracy you cannot lock up people for no reason

 

See also

View topic - David Hicks - Permaculture discussion forum

[LaurieAG]

Was it not the U.S. that made countries sign agreements saying they wouldn't do anything to the U.S.'s soldiers if they break the conventions?

 

Actually it goes to more than just the conventions.

[Michaelangelica]

Some Pictures of Australian Homes

GetUp! - Action For Australia - www.getup.org.au

[Fatstep]

I think it's pretty obvious that the Bush Administration does not care what the general public, or world, has to say, ironic.

[Michaelangelica]

I think it's pretty obvious that the Bush Administration does not care what the general public, or world, has to say, ironic.

This was an interesting talk by an Australian barrister . At one point he suggested that Bush may be mad.

 

 

3 March 2007

Julian Burnside on Habeas Corpus

 

Listen Now - 03032007 | Download Audio - 03032007

 

The detention of David Hicks has introduced argument over the language of the law and of military justice into our daily news bulletins and public discussion.

 

But how many of us really understand the meaning of the ancient legal terms, habeas corpus and hearsay? Can torture be redefined as coercion? And what do we understand by the language of military justice, military commission and court martial; or terms specific to the Guantanamo Bay inmates, the illegal enemy combatants?

 

This week, Julian Burnside, QC, barrister, author and human rights campaigner, explains habeas Corpus.

 

Presenter

 

Kate Bochner

Lingua Franca - 3 March 2007  - Julian Burnside on Habeas Corpus

 

Also another point of view

Ockham's Razor - 27 August 2006  - The David Hicks Case

[Michaelangelica]

Well we have had the amazing admission from Bonsai (Howard) that "I like most Australians believe that Justice delayed is justice denied." (ABC TV last week)

 

Pardon me as I make 'throw up' ('Technicolor yawns') noises.

 

Now we have this interesting development

Hicks case: Howard may be called

March 19, 2007 - 7:33PM

Page 1 of 2 | Single page

 

* 1.8m x 2.4m: living like Hicks

* Video: Hicks' cell in the CBD

 

The Australian lawyer for Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks says Prime Minister John Howard could be called as a witness in a Federal Court case against the government.

 

The legal action, which is due to begin in May, argues that the federal government breached its duty of care to Hicks by not demanding the US government release him from Guantanamo Bay as other countries had done with their citizens.

 

Hicks' lawyer, David McLeod, told the ABC that federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock and Foreign Minister Alexander Downer could also be called to the witness box.

Hicks case: Howard may be called - National - smh.com.au

[Michaelangelica]

Guantanamo Bay: Why it must be closed

 

Peter Robson

16 March 2007

 

 

More than 500 people from 35 countries have been incarcerated in the Guantanamo Bay prison complex since 2002. Since becoming the detention centre for prisoners captured in US President George Bush’s unending “global war on terror”, it has been the source of numerous allegations of physical and psychological abuse. It is a legal black hole in which detainees have waited for up to half a decade without charges being laid.

Green Left - Guantanamo Bay: Why it must be closed

 

 

* Home

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+ > UK

# > UK Politics

 

Guantanamo Bay must be closed, PM is told

By Sophie Goodchild, Chief Reporter

Published: 21 January 2007

 

Tony Blair must work with the US to find alternatives to the notorious Guantanamo Bay so that the detention camp can be closed, says a report published today by an influential committee of MPs.

 

The report says the camp used to house terror suspects fails to achieve minimum British standards on access to exercise, recreation, legal support and to the outside world.

Independent Online Edition > UK Politics

Justice for Guantánamo detainees! The detention camp approaches its 5th anniversary

Detainee rests inside his cell, Camp Delta, Guantánamo Bay US Naval Base, Cuba.

Detainee rests inside his cell, Camp Delta, Guantánamo Bay US Naval Base, Cuba.

© AP GraphicsBank

 

 

In January 2002, the US authorities transferred the first "war on terror" detainees – hooded and shackled – to the US Naval Base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Despite widespread international condemnation, hundreds of people of more than 30 nationalities remain there.

 

The US administration chose Guantánamo as the location for this detention facility in an attempt to keep the detainees out of the reach of the US courts.

 

The totality of the detention regime in Guantánamo – harsh, indefinite, isolating and punitive – amounts to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in violation of international law.

 

The detainees and their families face severe psychological distress. In desperation, numerous detainees have embarked on hunger strikes, being kept alive through painful force feeding procedures. A number have attempted suicide. In June 2006, three detainees were found dead in their cells; they had apparently hanged themselves.

 

As more evidence surfaces that the abuse of Guantánamo detainees has been widespre

Web action: Justice for Guantánamo detainees! The detention camp approaches its 5th anniversary - Amnesty International

 

USA

 

Close Guantánamo - symbol of injustice

 

An icon of lawlessness

"The United States Government will work to advance human dignity in word and deed, speaking out for freedom and against violations of human rights."

National Security Strategy of the USA, March 2002

 

"I am dying here every day, mentally and physically... We have been ignored, locked up in the middle of the ocean for four years."

Guantánamo detainee Shaker Aamer, a Saudi Arabian national and UK resident, November 2005

 

Hundreds of men of many different nationalities have been transported to the USA’s offshore prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. At every stage of their ordeal, their dignity, humanity and fundamental rights have been denied.

 

The first detainees were flown from Afghanistan to Guantánamo in January 2002 – hooded, shackled and tied down like cargo. They were the first of more than 750 people of some 45 nationalities who would be taken to the base in this way, among them children as young as 13. They have included people who were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, dozens of whom were handed over to the USA by Pakistani or Afghan agents in return for thousands of dollars.

 

The US authorities have branded the detainees as loosely-defined "enemy combatants" in a global conflict. That they see the world as the "battlefield" is illustrated by the fact that Guantánamo’s detainees were picked up in places as far apart as Bosnia and Herzegovina, Egypt, Gambia, Indonesia, Mauritania, Thailand, the United Arab Emirates and Zambia, as well as Afghanistan and Pakistan.

USA: Close Guantánamo - symbol of injustice - Amnesty International

[LaurieAG]

Hello Michaelangelica,

 

The interesting thing about the charge David Hicks faces is that there is a precedent. Jane Fonda and the Vietnam war.

[Boerseun]

Hello Michaelangelica,

 

The interesting thing about the charge David Hicks faces is that there is a precedent. Jane Fonda and the Vietnam war.

Was Jane Fonda ever incarcerated for years on end without access to legal counsel and without being charged at all?

[CraigD]

Hello Michaelangelica,

 

The interesting thing about the charge David Hicks faces is that there is a precedent. Jane Fonda and the Vietnam war.

Was Jane Fonda ever incarcerated for years on end without access to legal counsel and without being charged at all?

I’m unable to find any record of Jane Fonda having been charged with any crime concerning her Vietnam war or other anti-war protest activity.

 

Though I suspect that, like most Americans, she’s had at least a parking or speeding ticket at some time in her life, her closest brush with the law appears to be through her now 38-year-old daughter, Vanessa Vadim, who in 1989 was arrested with a companion on heroine possession charges, and later sentenced to 3 days of community service for “interfering with police when they arrested her companion” (source: Jane Fonda News - The New York Times - Narrowed by 'VADIM, VANESSA')

 

LaurieAG, your claim that Jane Fonda’s anti-war protest activity is a “precident” for David Hicks incarceration at Gitmo as an enemy combatant appears unfounded. I suggest that in future, you research such claim more thoroughly, and, per hypography rules, provide links and/or citations to your sources.