Democrats to Bush: No more troops to Iraq

[TheBigDog]

I think this is a bit of a distortion.

Bah!!

 

He specified "Navy" in 1776 the same way he would have specified Sea, Air and Land (and space??) defenses today. It was the technology of the day required for defense of the nation.

 

He also suggested shipbuilding for its economic boon, as he suggested raising an army would bring with it its own commerce.

 

Common Sense should be required reading.

 

Bill

[CraigD]

Picky?! That’s “attention to detail”. I’m known for that – it helps pay the bills :)

He [Paine] specified "Navy" in 1776 the same way he would have specified Sea, Air and Land (and space??) defenses today. It was the technology of the day required for defense of the nation.

I agree that, were he familiar with 21st century warfare, Thomas Paine would include air and space defense under “navy”. The distinction between a navy/air/space force and an army, though, seems to me, and, I think, would have seemed to Paine, not much changed over the centuries.

He also suggested shipbuilding for its economic boon, as he suggested raising an army would bring with it its own commerce.

Unlike others of his generation, such as Washington and Jefferson, Paine appears to have had no aversion to the US having a permanent standing army, suggesting (rightly, recent history seems to show) that “the diminution of trade affords an army” (in modern terms, the military provides a buffer against excessive unemployment), and “the necessities of an army create a new trade.” (Just ask Haliburton or Blackwater to vouch for that). I doubt that Paine imagined the degree to which the federal government, rather than state and even local government, currently controls all aspects of the US military, or that so many non-commissioned personnel would someday be lifetime career soldiers. To the extent that Washington and Jefferson foresaw this condition, was as a cautionary tale – having endured a war largely the result of the failed policy of a monarch with near absolute control of a large, professional army, they were profoundly distrustful of them, and even of career commissioned officers.

 

What Paine would have thought of the Iraq war requires more speculation than I’m comfortable making. John Quincy Adams, of the “next generation” of American leaders, left little to the imagination on the subject, in his famous 7/4/1821 address:

Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her [America’s] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force…. She might become the dictatress of the world: she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.

Common Sense should be required reading.

I agree – I believe the Republic would be better served if many more old documents were required reading – not just Payne, but Adams, Holms … the list is long. It’s important to understand, however, that such documents, while valuable, are not the same as public law, being in legal fact cousins of the writings (or, mostly, talkings) of Rush Limbaugh and Al Gore.

[jackson33]

Thomas Paine, grew up under very poor conditions (in England), spent time in a French Prison (G. Washington refuded to validate being from America) and was not executed, in an error by a prison guard. he of course was soon pardoned. additionally he advocated government involvements in the health and educations by government, among other social programs.

 

with this in mind, you could say his attitudes today would lay in the *liberal*, camp or that of the current speakers advocating big government.

 

just a thought...

[Qfwfq]

just a thought...

Somewhat reminescent of the genetic fallacy...