Roman Polanski and Public Education

[TheBigDog]

OK, this was out of the blue. My oldest son presented me with a permission slip that he needs signed to watch an R rated movie in his British Literature class in school. I will set aside the question of WHY they watching a movie in literature class. And I will set aside the question of why I need to sign a permission slip for a 17 year old to watch a movie that he is old enough by law to see.

 

What bothered me was when he told me what movie it is. It is "The Tradgedy of MacBeth" directed by Roman Polanski (1971).

 

Here is my problem. Polanski is a fugitive of justice. He is guilty of raping a 14 year old girl in 1978, and fled to France to avoid the possibility of prison time. I do not think that my public tax money should be doing anything that may be lining the wallet of this man. And I think it is a sour message to deliver that simply fleeing for a long enough time grants some sort of clemancy for the act that was committed.

 

I am planning on writing the school about this, to make sure they understand my position on their choice of movies. There are 43 MacBeth films that I found on the internet. The picked the only one made by a rapist fugitive of justice.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Bill

[Buffy]

Oh my. Polanski's Macbeth is one of my favorites of all time. You need a permission slip not because Polanski likes teenage girls (I won't make excuses for him, but the girl was an "old 14," so he's not exactly a pedophile, but its definitely rape in my book, so its not in the least excusable), but because this version is *gory*. It was made right after his pregnant wife Sharon Tate was murdered by Charles Manson, and you can tell.

 

I actually strongly recommend seeing this one for many reasons--mostly its just really great filmmaking--but it is on par with The Wild Bunch. I'd strongly argue its actually the best version done on film, partly because Olivier never did a version of it. I never liked Orson Welles version.

 

Lots of artists are perverts. It shouldn't keep you from appreciating their art. Allen Ginsburg is an advocate of pedophilia, but your education is still incomplete if you don't read "Howl."

 

Out, damned spot! Out I say!

Buffy

[TheBigDog]

but the girl was an "old 14,"

In 1977 Polański, 43, became embroiled in a scandal involving 13-year-old Samantha Geimer; it ultimately led to Polański's guilty plea to the charge of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor.

 

Polański was initially charged[10] with rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon child under 14, and furnishing a controlled substance (methaqualone) to a minor, but these charges were dismissed under the terms of his plea bargain, and he pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of engaging in unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor (Washington Post, August 10, 1977[11]). The grand jury transcript describes the alcohol that Polański allegedly supplied before engaging in oral, vaginal and anal sex with the girl

She was 13. He is a pedophile. I was incorrect about her age in my initial post.

 

Bill

[Buffy]

I won't excuse his behavior. Its reprehensible and illegal.

 

I also agree with you that its probably questionable to use public funds on things that some people find questionable, so I'd strongly defend your right to protest this.

 

I'd also point to lots of things that government pays for that many don't agree with (discussing birth control in schools, invading Iraq, etc), so I'm not sure this is an iron-clad argument.

 

In most school districts, they'd require not only a permission slip but possibly payment of the fees by the parents precisely to get around this argument.

 

I have to also admit I'm kind of surprised to see this happen in Ohio. California wouldn't have a problem with it (in fact, I saw it in a high school class myself)...but then we're all pervs and felons out here...

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[CraigD]

… "The Tradgedy of MacBeth" directed by Roman Polanski (1971).

…

Here is my problem. Polanski is a fugitive of justice. He is guilty of raping a 14 year old girl in 1978, and fled to France to avoid the possibility of prison time.

…

What are your thoughts on this?

I’ve seen this movie, and some other film treatments of the play, other Polanski films from the same period, and more recent Polanski films, notably 2002’s ”The Pianist”. Considered independently of Polanski’s participation in these films, they are clearly excellent films.

 

Concerning the decision TBD is currently confronted with – to permit his minor son to watch Polanski’s “MacBeth” or not, or to petition the school(s) to not show it – my thought is that one shouldn’t deprive oneself of viewing good art because of the moral character of the artist.

 

Concerning the actions of Polanski on 3/10/1977, I agree with TBD’s implication. Polanski’s actions were reprehensible. Despite some people’s assertions that his sexual intercourse with then 13-year-old Samantha Geimer was consensual, no one familiar with the case, even Polanski, honestly makes this claim. Under the false pretenses of photographing Geimer for a magazine, Polanski lured her from her parent’s custody, gave her champaign and methaqualone , and ignoring her repeated requests to be taken home to her parents and not to be touched, non-violently raped her. Contrary to some assertion I apparently imagined seeing somewhere, according to Geimer’s testimony before a grand jury, she was not a virgin, but had had sexual intercourse on 2 previous occasions with unnamed individuals.

 

Concerning his actions in fleeing from sentencing, I believe his actions were justified. Polanski signed a written plea agreement with prosecutors, pleading guilty to a reduced charge of “unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor“ and was confinement to a psychiatric facility for 45 days, after which, according to the agreement, if found competent to be convicted, he would be sentenced to time served and probation, and be released. Prosecutors, however, overstepped their authority in reaching this agreement. When advised by his counsel that the judge to pass sentence on him had told acquaintances and staff that he intended prescribe the maximum sentence of 50 years with the possibility of parole, Polanski fled.

 

On multiple occasions, including in 2003, Geimer has stated that she does not believe the US and California should continue to treat Polanski as a fugitive.

 

I agree with her. In my inexpert opinion, Polanski should have been punished - with more than a 45 days residential psychiatric evaluation – but in prosecutors agreeing to a plea bargain, then a judge threatening to dishonor it, these agents of the state of California engaged in unethical judicial conduct.

[CraigD]

Polanski's Macbeth is one of my favorites of all time.

…

I'd strongly argue its actually the best version done on film, partly because Olivier never did a version of it. I never liked Orson Welles version.

Though its so loosely interpreted that it can’t really be compared to traditional treatments, no Macbeth movie experience would be complete without seeing Kurosawa’s “Throne of Blood”. Plus, Kurosawa was by all accounts a very nice guy who never raped anybody.

[Freddy]

Roman Polanski should answer for the charges against him. Concerning R rated films in schools, the usual policy is first, the teacher suggests the use of the film to the principal and receives approval. Next, the teacher gives each student a permission slip. Students whose parents signed the slip watch the film, students whose parents did not sign do some alternate work. Parents have the right to protest/challenge a book or film used in class. However, other parents who do not object have the right to tell the challening parent to worry about their own child and they will worry about theirs. If by chance there is a serious challenge by large numbers of parents the school committee and/or the faculty may decide to review using the film in class. Censorship is usually not the way to go. Some books and films have been banned for kids. In history class R rated films have been challenged. Shindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, The Patriot have all have been challenged.

[Cedars]

I am with Big Dog on this one.

 

I am not avocating that his film should be banned, but the public school has an obligation to not accept this particular film, due to the fact that the very age of the person violently assualted is the age of the persons attending this film. It may be the very best ever produced on MacBeth but too bad. Its not the only version so the school has a choice. Big Dog, you should contact parents AND write a letter to the editor....

 

I would wonder about the teachers who decided to put a child rapists version on display at this school.

 

As far as this being a non-violent rape?? Sorry but when you drug someone, ignore their requests to be brought home, and sodomize them, its violent. Just because they were drugged up and unable to fight does not minimize the violence inflicted on body and mind. Her being or not being a virgin is a red-herring.

 

In all court cases I know of, a judge can go with or ignore a prosecutors deals and Polanskis lawyers should be well aware of that. And as I understand it, the judge would have had to deny the agreement and give Polanski an opportunity to withdraw his plea. If the judge did not, Polanski would have an opportunity to get out on appeal. So what we have here is a fugitive from justice. Polanski fled on heresay.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Yeah, Polanski's a perv - but he's also a great artist.

 

Rodin was emotionally abusive.

Jackson Pollock was a drunk.

Willem de Kooning was a womanizer.

 

None of these are particularly nice people, but they've all made great art. Do his personal problems erase Polanski's artistic contributions?

 

I don't think it does. I think that Polanski's art can still be appreciated independent of his history as a child-rapist. Furthermore, this particular film was made BEFORE he fled the country, so it's difficult to argue that he should never have been able to make it in the first place.

 

It would be akin to going back and removing all of Ty Cobb's records from the books because he turned out to be a drunk, violent *******.

 

It seems kinda ... revisionist.

 

TFS

[InfiniteNow]

You think your kid's aren't already watching worse outside of school? At least in this type of delivery there will be open discussion and dialogue, a sharing of opionions by the students... quite often all too absent from a normal classroom experience.

 

 

Don't go burning books now... It's better that they see it and understand it than have it treated as a forbidden fruit and become more desired and stigmatized. Could lead to an awesome conversation between you the parent and the youngin...

[Spiked Blood]

Is art more important than upholding some sort of moral standard? Maybe we should give Saddam a video camera and see what he comes up with...?

[InfiniteNow]

Is art more important than upholding some sort of moral standard?

Depends on who you ask...

 

Avoidance, however, is not generally a strategy which makes problems (even those only perceived) go away.

[pgrmdave]

I'm not sure what bearing his actions have on his art. When the kids watch it, are they going to be told that this is a support of pedophile? Is the film made in such a way as to support pedophilia? Does it subject people to subliminal messages that support pedophilia? Just like I don't think that art can be good simply because the artist was a good person, I don't think that art becomes bad simply because the artist was a bad person.

[CraigD]

Maybe we should give Saddam a video camera and see what he comes up with...?

Saddam isn’t a cinematographer – he’s a novelist. It’s rumored that, since his 2003 incarceration, he’s been working on a new novel, a period allegorical romance like his first, “Zabibah and the King” (which can be purchased online or at bookstores near most of us :shrug:).

 

Other than as insight into their authors personality, the books are said not to be very good. (though “Zabibah” has a 5-start rating on Amazon! B))

[TheBigDog]

It is not the film I have a problem with. It is letting him draw profits from public schools while he continues to be a fugitive from justice for child rape. Had he done actually showed up in court and been assigned his sentence, and served his time it would be another deal. But as long as he continues to flee justice I will not have my public dollars profiting him.

 

There are dozens of other versions of MacBeth that could be used in the class. None of which would be having a school give profits to a fugitive child rapist. I don't care if it is a fraction of a penny, or just a warm feeling inside. Giving this guy a pass is bullshit.

 

Bill

[TheFaithfulStone]

Well, I don't think that school children are paying to see the film, so he's not getting any profits from ticket sales.

 

As far as getting residuals from sales of the DVD of the movie, that's something that should be brought up with the movie studio. How are they wiring the money to him for residuals, and does that count as "aiding and abetting?"

 

Or, if he's not getting any money from residuals, there is no issue.

 

TFS

[InfiniteNow]

What if the teacher paid for it out of pocket in hopes of generating classroom dialogue, and public funds had nothing to do with it?