Psychotropic drugs

[CraigD]

I’ve a couple of question about the physiological mechanism of psychotropic (mind altering) drugs in general.

 

As best I understand, psychotropics work in 4 broad ways

• Blocking nerve depolarization by binding to sodium channels
  
• Binding to a receptor, either to activate it, prevent its activation by its usual neurotransmitter, prevent the reuptake of a neurotransmitter, or otherwise alter the usual transmitter-receptor interaction.
  
• Chemically retard or increase the rate at which neurotransmitters break down into neurologically inert molecules
  
• Bind with and disable, or chemically degrade the usual molecules that retard or increase the rate at which neurotransmitters break down
  

My questions: am I missing a significant mechanism? Are other mechanisms, if not found in human of animal physiology, possible in principle?

[Racoon]

yeah,

 

Which chemicals and neurotransmitters ? ... :doh:

 

Plus absorbtion levels, (which might/could be included in your 4th bullet point)

[Michaelangelica]

[*]Binding to a receptor

This interests me

I have learnt on this forum that there are not only cannaboid receptors (I knew about opiate receptors) but also psychotropic receptors in the human brain.

These have been designed by us just as keys are made to fit locks

 

If a person hallucinates in psychotic disorders such as Schizophrenia (or in religious "ecstasy") does that mean he is producing his/her own internal psychotropic drugs?

just as the long-distance runner produces his own opiates?

 

If that is the case Schizophrenia may be helped by something that stops this process ????

[billg]

This interests me

I have learnt on this forum that there are not only cannaboid receptors (I knew about opiate receptors) but also psychotropic receptors in the human brain.

These have been designed by us just as keys are made to fit locks

 

If a person hallucinates in psychotic disorders such as Schizophrenia (or in religious "ecstasy") does that mean he is producing his/her own internal psychotropic drugs?

just as the long-distance runner produces his own opiates?

 

Most psychotropic drugs act, as mentioned previously, by activating or inhibiting certain neurons by stimulating or blocking receptors on the neurons. So while it is probable that disorders like schizophrenia (and more controversially religious experiences) are a result of defects in the brain systems affected by drugs such as cocaine or LSD, it is not because they produce a chemical we don't, but rather because either they produce more or less of it, or because their receptors are more or less sensitive, or because they have more receptors.

 

 

If that is the case Schizophrenia may be helped by something that stops this process ????

 

Yes, though I don't think it's that simple, especially not for schizophrenia. They do give drugs to schizophrenic patients, and the drugs that seem to work at alleviating symptoms are part of the reason they think certain types of receptors (such as dopamine and serotonin) are involved in such diseases - if they work, it makes sense the system they act on is involved. Unfortunately, schizophrenia is much more complex than that, and there may be many, many chemical differences between parts of a schizophrenics brain and ours, and the brain may even have altered anatomical structure as well, so its unlikely a single chemical will be found that's a "cure-all". More likely just ways to treat some symptoms.

[Michaelangelica]

Unfortunately, schizophrenia is much more complex than that, and there may be many, many chemical differences between parts of a schizophrenics brain and ours, and the brain may even have altered anatomical structure as well, so its unlikely a single chemical will be found that's a "cure-all". More likely just ways to treat some symptoms.

 

Yes,:) just a bit of wishful thinking.

 

Are the chemical receptors for psychotropic drugs simialr to opiate & MJ receptors?

 

It is strange that LSD trips and pellagra and schizophrenia have similar symptoms. Is there a common link?

[sun]

they've tested lsd on schizo's for a long time,

and lsd on balanced kids like us, too

and the acid barely affects the crazy,

Only in severe doses.

It is proven that schizo's are imbalanced

and some experience a good trip

and some experience a bad.

[Drip Curl Magic]

It's strange to think

 

that schitzophrenics are just tripping

 

about the same as I would

 

except

 

all the time.

 

 

Probably not proven.... but it makes enough sense to me.

[Drip Curl Magic]

researching.....

[Ganoderma]

Our bodies also build up a resistance to certain chemicals. Psilocybin mushrooms are a great example. What’s the reasoning behind resistance? is it because of the ways they are absorbed? Reactions? And what about other things that make us of MAOI's?

[billg]

In essence there are two reasons people build up resistance to chemicals. The first is rapid, and it's called receptor desensitisation; a process whereby a receptor that is hit with a large amount of the chemical that acts upon it becomes less sensitive to that chemical in the short term. This can be achieved for example by their being another receptor molecule that picks up the chemical messenger. This second receptor may then lead to a change in the first receptor which then decreases how active the first receptor is. In this way, strong, continuous activation of a neuron leads to a rapid decrease in activity.

 

After this, if stimulation is chronic like in drug abuse, a slower longer lasting mechanism occurs, called receptor down-regulation. Similar chemical signals act on the nucleus of the cell (rather than on the receptors themselves) - these signals result in the amount of the receptor on the surface of the cell to decrease; in other words, more receptors are recycled back into the cell, and fewer are put back out. Less receptors means the chemical or drug will have less of an effect, and also means that in the absence of the drug, the person will not function normally (in other words have withdrawal symptoms).

[Turtle]

I’ve a couple of question about the physiological mechanism of psychotropic (mind altering) drugs in general.

 

...My questions: am I missing a significant mechanism? Are other mechanisms, if not found in human of animal physiology, possible in principle?

 

Other possible physiological mechanisms may include the individual specifics of a person's brain structure, e.g. the size of the visual cortex, as well as a person's memory. Another possible physiological mechanism is age, inasmuch as the myelin sheaths do not fully form in the human brain until roughly age 21.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myelin_sheath

The main consequence of a myelin layer (or sheath) is an increase in the speed at which impulses propagate along the myelinated fiber. Along unmyelinated fibers, impulses move continuously as waves, but, in myelinated fibers, they hop (or "propagate by saltation"). Myelin increases resistance by a factor of 5,000 and decreases capacitance by a factor of 50....

[InfiniteNow]

Other possible physiological mechanisms may include the individual specifics of a person's brain structure, e.g. the size of the visual cortex, as well as a person's memory.

Just as a supplement to this really... The brain size doesn't matter so much as the overall convolution. :eek2:

 

 

Who'd have thunk that being convoluted could actually be a good thing? ;)

[Michaelangelica]

Our bodies also build up a resistance to certain chemicals. Psilocybin mushrooms are a great example. What’s the reasoning behind resistance? is it because of the ways they are absorbed? Reactions? And what about other things that make us of MAOI's?

As I understand it most Psychotropic drugs/herbs/mushrooms don't build resistance like opiates and MJ. I don't know why.:shrug:

 

There are reported cases of people taking LSD trips years after taking the drug.('Urban' scare stories?)

 

It is interesting that humans are genetically closer to mushrooms and fungi than to plants.

Perhaps this is why we retain the ability to synthesise vitamin D from sunlight like mushrooms?

It could also be the reason some anti-fungal drugs can effect us badly ? or that Psychotropic drugs affect us at all

 

I think it possible that ethnogens gave us our first ideas of god and the supernatural.

[Queso]

 

I think it possible that ethnogens gave us our first ideas of god and the supernatural.

 

good! the stoned ape theory!

 

Eat a psychedelic mushroom and all the information around you will swarm into this overdriven understanding.

Forced to think about everything.

 

I can't even imagine what it would be like thousands of years ago,

barely thinking at all...

 

just thinking in animalistic impulses,

eating a mushroom,

and all of a sudden realizing Who I am,

what I am doing---

 

Having the overwhelming urge, and desire to communicate,

share my feelings, my existence, with others

who can relate, and love--

 

Mushrooms sparking consciousness?? CHA!

 

And about flashbacks - -

 

A lot of people have reported experiencing flashbacks after taking LSD,

but I don't know if I believe it . . .

 

I've consumed a lot of that stuff, and never experienced a flashback.

 

Even if I did, it wouldn't be scary,

it would be transcendental ecstacy in it's purest form.

 

(NO, ENTHEOGENS AREN'T PURE! THEY'RE BAD!! THEY'RE BAD FOR YOU!!!)

 

pshhh,

get in tune.

 

"Once you get the message, hang up the phone" - tim leary

 

(oi, I just love that quote)

[Ganoderma]

As I understand it most Psychotropic drugs/herbs/mushrooms don't build resistance like opiates and MJ. I don't know why.:lol:

 

There are reported cases of people taking LSD trips years after taking the drug.('Urban' scare stories?)

 

It is interesting that humans are genetically closer to mushrooms and fungi than to plants.

Perhaps this is why we retain the ability to synthesise vitamin D from sunlight like mushrooms?

It could also be the reason some anti-fungal drugs can effect us badly ? or that Psychotropic drugs affect us at all

 

I think it possible that ethnogens gave us our first ideas of god and the supernatural.

 

 

interesting. i am curious, specifically with mushrooms but others such as mj. You take your dose and a few days latter it is barely effective. i have seen many people experience this. it just doesn’t seem to work the same right after a dose, a couple weeks or so are usually needed. any ideas? i am not sure if it is so but i have heard various reports of the same situation with mescaline (san pedro, not peyote).

 

about the religion thing. i would tend to agree. Mushrooms may not send people into deep meaningful thinking. you fart laugh and see some fart waves and neat distortions, certainly not always spiritual (but that depends on person I guess). things like the daturas, and ayuscia (sp?) or DMT i would think send many people into a new dimension. i would strongly suspect people in south america and central america used these plants and from them formed, perhaps partly, their religion (their use has been proven, and from Shultz, davis and them they have report shaman actively using them). same goes for europeans and things such as mandrake, henbane, perhaps even amanitas. after all, witches had some pretty far out ideas.

[Queso]

peyote has a lot more mescaline than san pedro.

 

You can eat a few centimeters of peyote and trip harder than you would after harvesting 2 or 3 feet of san pedro.

 

Mescaline is a deep trance. (6 hours to . . 3 days?)

When I took mescaline, a few days later everything was still in motion.

 

LSD is a severely anxious hilarious rainbow of your brain on overdrive.(8-12 hours)

 

Psilocybin is just weird. (4-6 hours)

 

And I have no idea what you are talking about doses, and days, and weeks??

the affects of entheogens seem to spiral into infinity.

My experiences with them will always have an affect on the way I think, and the way I just am.

Even long after I've kissed them on the cheek, and whispered abstract poetry into their leaves.

 

 

DMT is fast acting (and it's already in your brains.)

Lasts about an hour.

From what I've read, DMT is released from the pineal gland at birth, death,

and very high forms of meditation. (((WOW)))

 

These psychedelic chemicals enter the body, and metabolize, causing a chain reaction.

 

Feeling motion.

 

Feeling MUSIC.

 

Hearing things you smell,

 

smelling things you see

 

tasting things you hear

 

"This song tastes like green beans . ."

 

It is no doubt that these, and various other entheogens influenced so many cultures all throughout the world.

 

They still do, and always will (for as long as we roam). We have a very intimate relationship with these plants and fungi.

 

One that, in this country, is Illegal, and bad.

 

Don't take psychedelics, you just might figure out who you are

and what you are doing here.

 

Uncle sam doesn't want that to happen.

 

He wants you to work, pay taxes, and fly flags not even that high.

[Queso]

Closing your eyes on psychedelics is like this:

 

 

I have no idea why

I have no idea how