Convincing Atheist

[InfiniteNow]

God is beyond logic and therefore none can analyse God. But such God comes in flesh to give His experience to us. For example Jesus came as God in flesh. Now the problem comes because Hinduism projects another God in flesh like Krishna. Krishna told that He is God. Jesus told that He is God because He and His father are one and the same. Now which God should I accept? Both of you do not permit me to do analysis. Then both of you discuss and finalise so that I will accept either Krishna or Jesus. You neither give me the conclusion nor allow me to get the conclusion!

Wow...word for word... the EXACT statement you used to respond to another question in another thread just previous to this.

 

Maybe there's something to be said for consistency.

[Michaelangelica]

http://www.atheistalliance.org/library/AB-God_Loves_You.html

 

God Loves You

(A Few Reasons To Doubt The Existence Of A Loving God)

abscesses, acne, addictions, adenitis, adenoids, AIDS, albinism, allergies, ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease), Alzheimer's disease, amnesia, anemia, aneurysms, angina, anorexia nervosa, anthrax, anxiety attacks, aphasia, appendicitis, apoplexy, arteriosclerosis, arthritis, asphyxia, asthma, astigmatism, athlete's foot, attention deficit disorder (ADD), autism, avalanches, back aches, bedsores, Bell's palsy, beriberi, bipolar disorder (manic-depression), birth defects, blackouts, bladder infections, blemishes, blindness, blisters, blizzards, bloating, boils, bone cancer, bone spurs, botulism, bowlegs, breast cancer, brain cancer, breech presentations, Bright's disease, brittle bone disease, broken bones, bronchitis, bruises, bulimia, bunions, bursitis, calcinosis, canker sores, cardiac dysrhythmia, cardiomyopathy, carpal tunnel syndrome, cataracts, cellulitis, cerebral palsy, cervical cancer, cervicitis, chapped lips, chickenpox, chlamydia, choking, cholera, cleft lips and palates, clubfoot (talipes), cold sores, colic, colitis, colon cancer, color blindness, comas, common cold, concussions, congestion, congestive heart failure, conjunctivitis, constipation, convulsions, coronary occlusions, coughs, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, cyclones, cystic fibrosis, cystitis, cysts, dandruff, dangerous plants and animals, deafness, deformities, dehydration, delirium, delirium tremens, delusions, dementia, dental problems, depression, dermatitis, detached retinas, deviated septums, diabetes, diaper rash, diarrhea, diphtheria, dislocated joints, dizziness, Down's syndrome, droughts, dysentery, dyslexia, dysphagia, dysphasia, dysuria, ear infections, earthquakes, Ebola virus, ectopic pregnancies, eczema, edema, elephantiasis, embolisms, emphysema, encephalitis, endocarditis, endometriosis, enteritis, epidemics, epididymitis, epilepsy, Epstein-Barr virus, erectile dysfunction (ED), excessive ear wax, fainting, fallen arches (flat foot), farsightedness (hyperopia), fevers, fibrillation, fibromyalgia, fibrosis, fistulas, flatulence, floods, frostbite, gallstones, ganglions, gangrene, gastrinomas, gastritis, gastroenteritis, germs, gingivitis, glaucoma, goiter, gonorrhea, gout, granuloma, Graves' disease, halitosis, hallucinations, hay fever, headaches, heart attacks, heartburn, heart murmurs, hematomas, hemiplegia, hemophilia, hemorrhages, hemorrhagic fever, hemorrhoids, hepatitis (A,B&C), hernias, herniated and slipped disks, herpes, hiccups, high blood pressure (hypertension), HIV, hives, Hodgkin's disease, humpbacks (kyphosis), Huntington's chorea, hurricanes, hydrocephalus, hyperactivity, hypercholesterolemia, hyperemia, hyperglycemia, hyperthermia, hyperthyroidism, hypertonicity, hyperuricemia, hypochondria, hypoglycemia, hypothermia, hypothyroidism, impacted teeth, incontinence, indigestion (dyspepsia), infarctions, infections, infertility, infestations, inflammations, influenza, insanity, insomnia, iritis, irritable bowels, ischemia, itches, jaundice, Karposi's sarcoma, keratitis, keratosis, kidney failure, kidney stones, knock-knees, labor pains, laryngitis, Legionnaires' disease, leprosy, lesions, lethargy, leukemia, lice, lipidosis, lipomas, liposarcoma, liver cancer, lockjaw/tetanus, lordosis, low blood pressure (hypotension), lumbago, lung cancer, lupus, Lyme disease, lymphangitis, lymphedema, lymphocytosis, lymphomas, macular degeneration, malaria, malocclusions, manias, mastitis, measles, melancholia, melanomas, meningitis, menorrhagia, menstrual cramps, mental illnesses, mental retardation, migraines, miscarriages (spontaneous abortions), mononucleosis, monsoons, morning sickness, multiple personality disorder, multiple sclerosis, multiple system atrophy, mumps, muscle cramps and spasms, muscular dystrophy, myalgia, myasthenia gravis, myelitis, narcolepsy, nausea, nearsightedness (myopia), necrosis, nephritis, nephrosis, nervous breakdowns, nervous tics, neuralgia, neuritis, neuroses, night blindness, nosebleeds, obesity, osteitis, osteodystrophy, osteoporosis, otitis, ovarian cancer, Paget's disease, pain, palsy, pancreatic cancer, paralysis, paranoia, parasitosis, Parkinson's disease, pericarditis, periodontitis, peritonitis, phantom pain, pharyngitis, phlebitis, phobias, pimples, pinched nerves, plagues, pleurisy, pneumonia, poisons, polio, Pott's disease, premature births, premenstrual syndrome (PMS), prions, prostate cancer, psoriasis, psychoses, psychosomatic illnesses, ptomaine poisoning, pulled muscles, quicksand, rabies, rashes, Raynaud's disease, resistance to curative drugs, retinitis, retinitis pigmentosa, retroviruses, Reye's syndrome, Rh incompatibility, rheumatic fever, rheumatism, rhinoviruses, rickets, riptides, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, rubella, ruptures, salmonella poisoning, sandstorms, sarcomas, scabies, scarlet fever, schizophrenia, sclerosis, scoliosis, scurvy, seizures, senility, septicemia, severe thunder storms, shingles, shock, sickle-cell anemia, skin cancer, sleep apnea, smallpox, sneezes, sore throats, sores, spastic colons, speech disorders, spina bifida, sprains, stillbirths, stomach cancer, strep throats, strokes, styes, sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), sunburn, sunstroke, swelling, syphilis, tabes, tardive dyskinesia, Tay-Sachs disease, teething pains, temper tantrums, tartar, tendinitis, testicular cancer, thrombosis, tidal waves, tinnitus, TMJ, tonsillitis, tooth decay, torn cartilage, tornadoes, Tourette's syndrome, toxemia, toxic shock syndrome, transplant rejection, trauma, tremors, trench foot, trichinosis, tropical storms, tuberculosis, tumors, tunnel vision, typhoid fever, typhoons, typhus, ulcers, uremia, urethritis, uterine cancer, vaginitis, varicose veins, vertigo, viruses, vomiting, warts, whooping cough, wounds, yeast infections, yellow fever...

 

 

edited by August Berkshire. © 1999-2001 August Berkshire

August Berkshire is the Associate President of Minnesota Atheists and a member of the board of directors of the Atheist Alliance.

 

Questions or Comments?

Whether you want to get involved, or you found a broken link, write to: [email protected]

 

COPYRIGHT © 2006 Atheist Alliance

[TheBigDog]

Michaelangelica,

 

Did you really need to post that whole thing in more than one place to answer more than one question? Besides, the existance of disease and affliction in not evidence of a lack of a loving God. It is evidence of disease and affliction.

 

Bill

[Michaelangelica]

Michaelangelica,

 

Did you really need to post that whole thing in more than one place to answer more than one question? Besides, the existance of disease and affliction in not evidence of a lack of a loving God. It is evidence of disease and affliction.

 

Bill

I know I'm bad:(

But it is such a good list.

[TheBigDog]

You should turn it into a song. :)

 

Bill

[Michaelangelica]

You should turn it into a song. :)

 

Bill

Country and Western of course.

 

(I heard a guy say the other day "I like both kinds of music Country AND Western".):cup:

[dattaswami]

Michaelangelica,

 

Did you really need to post that whole thing in more than one place to answer more than one question? Besides, the existance of disease and affliction in not evidence of a lack of a loving God. It is evidence of disease and affliction.

 

Bill

 

The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes.

 

But the cat is watching the rat and catches it again whenever the rat is out of the limits of the supervision. Similarly the Lord called “Kaala” (death) catches a human being and bites. The bite is the illness of the human being. The repeated diseases are the repeated bites of the ‘Kaala” or the Lord. During the bite the rat looses completely its independence. Similarly any human being, which is attacked by the disease becomes a patient and looses its independence completely. The cat plays with the rat for sometime like this and finally swallowes the rat. Similarly, the human being is swallowed by the Lord at the end. The whole creation itself is like a rat for the cat like Lord, which is told in Brahmasutra “Atta Charaachara Grahanaat”.

 

Thus the short span of independence of human beings under the supervision of the overall controlling Lord, creates the full game and entertainment for the Lord. The entertainment is the basic reason of the creation by the Lord as said in Veda (Ekaaki Na Ramate) and as said in Brahmasutra (Lokavattu). Within the limits of the supervision of the cat, the rat will receive the result of the direction in which it runs. In one direction there may be fire and the rat may receive the heat. In another direction there may be cold water and the rat will receive the coolness in that direction.

 

The rat is independent to receive the result of the direction and has full independence to go in any direction. The final death of the rat shows that the rat is under the control of the cat during its choice of direction also, which is not interfered by the cat. Similarly the human life is with full of independence but the final end proves that the independence is under the control of the Lord. Yet, since there was no interference of the Lord during the human life, the human being receives the results according to its actions. Thus the “whole game is perfectly justified in any angle”.

[TheBigDog]

I am convinced that you are a nut. Strike two.

 

Bill

[dattaswami]

I am convinced that you are a nut. Strike two.

 

Bill

 

When Lord comes in Human form His main concentration in the preaching will be where people are lacking the knowledge. If one is strong in Mathematics, what is the use of teaching him mathematics? Teach the subject where he is weak. Sofar mostly people never identified the Lord (Ofcourse other than a handful) when He came in human form like Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed, Buddha... The reason being not aware of the knowledge required for identifying Him in addition to Jealousy and ego.

[GAHD]

Maby it's a robot?

[Zythryn]

Must be some sort of bot. I have only seen one post that appeared to be in answer to another post. Everything else seems to be a copy and paste of parts of a 'master' document feeding off keywords in posts.

[alexander]

Sofar mostly people never identified the Lord (Ofcourse other than a handful) when He came in human form like Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed, Buddha...

Buddha? what a statement, i am sure that even B-dawg himself would like to smack you in your wrists for posting that right there, if you are familiar with Buddhism, you would know that it is based on the beleif that there is NO divine power. Your statement contradicts the basic Buddhist understanding of the nature of Buddha and nirvana.

please refer to Buddhism if you have any questions...

[dattaswami]

Buddha? what a statement, i am sure that even B-dawg himself would like to smack you in your wrists for posting that right there, if you are familiar with Buddhism, you would know that it is based on the beleif that there is NO divine power. Your statement contradicts the basic Buddhist understanding of the nature of Buddha and nirvana.

please refer to Buddhism if you have any questions...

 

 

Bhuddha kept silent about God because God is beyond imagination, His followers misunderstood it and thought that Bhudda preached atheism.

[ughaibu]

I guess that was a wasted incarnation then.

[ughaibu]

It's hilarious really, Buddha was god but kept silent about god (himself) because he was beyond imagination. So, Buddha walks into a party and the MC announces "his unimaginableness the Buddha".

[dattaswami]

It's hilarious really, Buddha was god but kept silent about god (himself) because he was beyond imagination. So, Buddha walks into a party and the MC announces "his unimaginableness the Buddha".

 

ughaibu;

 

God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.

 

Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.

 

For the sake of entertainment, God desired to create the Universe. This statement is in Veda (Sa dviteeya Maicchat). In this statement there is a very subtle intermediate stage, which is the essence of the desire to create the Universe. The desire to create the world is like the golden ornament but the essence of such desire is like the raw gold in which the ornament is not yet expressed. Such raw essence of the desire is pure awareness. The pure awareness is a special subtle form of energy, which is not qualified by any form. Such pure awareness is called as the spirit, which is not qualified and does not have any attribute. This is called as “Nirguna Brahman”, which means the pure awareness, which has no reference to the creation of the universe. It is a very critical and subtle point to recognize the pure awareness. Veda says that only very very sharp intelligence can grasp that critical state (Drushyate Tvagraya bhuddhya). Sankara, the topmost genius among the spiritual preachers could grasp that state and proposed the concept of Nirguna Brahman or non-qualified pure awareness. Such pure awareness is the first creation of God (Parabrahman). This first creation is almost as critical and unimaginable as the very Parabrahman itself. The only difference is that Parabrahman is absolutely unimaginable for any sharp intelligence, but this pure awareness is imaginable only for a very sharp intelligence. This pure awareness is called as Mula Prakriti or Suddha Sattvam or Mula Avidya or Mula Maya or the Spirit in general. The Parabrahman maintains such spirit and it is only an associated item and is the first created item. The word Mula means the first. This spirit is in the form of knowledge. It is aware of itself, which means that it is knowledge. Knowledge requires both subjective and objective characteristics. It is subject as well as the object. Therefore, it is called as knowledge or Sattvam. This knowledge is the first form of energy. Energy is always active. Action is the characteristic of Rajas. Such Spirit is unaware of its own creator who is the God. Therefore, it is having ignorance or Tamas. Thus, the Knowledge itself is action and ignorance. According to Gita Knowledge is Sattvam (Sattvaat Sanjayate Jnanam), action is Rajas (Rajah Karmani) and Ignorance is Tamas (Tamastva Jnanajam). Thus these three qualities are always inseparable. The pure knowledge (Suddha Sattvam) itself is pure action (Suddha Rajas), which is the pure ignorance (Suddha Tamas). Thus in the very first instant itself the three qualities are created simultaneously in the purest state. Since all these three co-exist, it is called as equilibrium of the three qualities. When the equilibrium is disturbed various items of awareness result in which the three qualities exist in various proportions. Such disturbance of the equilibrium resulting in various distorted items of the three qualities is the very creation. The various mixtures of these three qualities constitute this diversified universe, which is meant for the play of the God and for His entertainment. When the entertainment is over all the three qualities go into the equilibrium state. Thus the Universe is converted into Mula Prakruti.

 

God is in association with this Mula Prakruti in the beginning. At this stage the Mula Prakruti is only a creation or created item and cannot do anything further. Its equilibrium continues. In fact the Mula Prakruti is only inert and the continuation of such equilibrium is the inertia. God enters the Mula Prakruti and pervades it. Now this Mula Prakruti is electrified wire. It is the ignited stick and is called as fire. Now this Mula Prakruti becomes divine and is called as Brahman or the Holy Spirit. The Spirit, which is just the inert created item became Holy due to the existence of God in it. Now Brahman multiplies its little part of the Mula Prakruti in which, Parabrahman does not exist. This means that God enters ninety nine percent of Mula Prakruti and not one percent. This little part of un-divine Mula Prakruti is multiplied by the disturbed equilibrium and the Universe appears. Thus, the pure awareness in which God pervaded becomes Brahman. Now Brahman becomes the spectator of the Universe. The little pure awareness into which God did not enter is modified into the Universe in which God does not exist. Here the modification does not mean materialization. The modification means the undisturbed equilibrium being converted into disturbed equilibrium. In both the states the substance is only awareness. You can compare this to a day-dreamer’s mind. The mind of the day-dreamer is Mula Prakruti. A little part of the mind is converted into dream. The mind, which is not converted, is a spectator of the dream. The dreamer is identified with the spectator part of the mind. Thus the dreamer is witnessing the dream through his unmodified mind. The dreamer has not entered the dream and therefore is not multiplied. When the dream city is burning neither the spectator part of the mind is burnt nor the dreamer. The spectator part of the mind itself can be treated as the dreamer because the dreamer entered that spectator part of the mind and exists in it. Thus, Brahman, the spectator of the Universe can be treated as Parabrahman. Such Parabrahman who is the spectator of the Universe is called as Eeshwara. Thus, Parabrahman is the original unimaginable creator. Mula Prakrithi is the first created item, which is the pure awareness. Brahman is the major part of pure awareness in which Parabrahman entered and occupied it. The same Brahman enjoying the Universe by vision is called as Eeshwara. Neither Parabrahman nor Brahman nor the Eeswara has entered the Universe, which is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities. Thus, there is no disturbance in either Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara. In Christianity God is Parabrahman. Brahman and Eeshwara are called as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the substance with which the Universe is made of. The spirit is not Holy because God did not occupy it. Thus the Universe is not Holy in Toto. It is Holy with reference to the good devotees and the divine incarnations. It is unholy with reference to bad living beings and Saturn. Parabrahman who is a spectator for sometime develops a desire to enter this Universe in the form of a living being especially as a human being because the main aim is to preach the divine knowledge. Veda says the same (Tadevaanu Praavishat). This divine human being in which, Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara exists is called as human incarnation or God in Flesh. The human incarnation consists of four items. The first item is God. The second item is the Mula Prakruti, which is the pure awareness or Brahman or Aatman or Karana Sareeram (Casual Body). The third item is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities called as Jeeva or Sukshma Sareera (Subtle Body). The fourth item is the Gross body made of five elements (Sthula Sareera) which is again imaginary only in view of God but a materialized form in view of other human beings. If you analyse any ordinary living being it contains all the three bodies except God. If we analyse any inert item of the world it contains only the Gross Body made of the five elements.

 

God should be understood as the unimaginable creator. Next God can be understood as the unimaginable spectator of the world. Lastly, God should be understood as the unimaginable actor who has entered the Universal Drama in the form of Human Incarnation.

[ughaibu]

Dattaswami: When playing the nags, do you back or lay?