Atheism and Faith

[Biochemist]

Biochemist: You have again given no evidence beyond your personal belief that the Bible is a literal record of true events, and that is not evidence. Post 45 provides no challenge to the passage of mine that you quoted.

I had to go back and find the context for this.

 

You said in an earlier post (34 or so?) that God had never been cataologued or researched outside of human imagination. That is categorically untrue. You could certainly argue that God's existence has never been proven. But there are a bunch of folks that contended that they met Him face to face, and there is an additional set of folks that think (or believe, or both) it is true.

 

And there are still extant evidences of those events.

 

See the thread: http://hypography.com/forums/theology-forum/2142-jesus-resurrection-plausible.html?highlight=jesus+plausible

[Biochemist]

I'm riding the fence here, watching the game from the bleachers and enjoying the back and forth, but...

I am having way too much fun with this thread.

[ughaibu]

Biochemist: You're joking. "That is categorically untrue." Tell me, how do you know that was god?

[Biochemist]

Biochemist: You're joking. "That is categorically untrue." Tell me, how do you know that was god?

I am having a difficult time with the language here. You said no one had ever researched the facts about God. I said that some did, and further that some came to the conclusion that God was here. You can feel free to disagree with the conclusion. But the fact that it has been researched (often, in fact) is irrefutable.

[ughaibu]

I said that god has never been researched, that is a god has never been examined, so the nature or symptoms of god are unknown. How has a god been researched/examined? What are the symptoms by which you would be able to recognise a god?

[Biochemist]

I said that god has never been researched, that is a god has never been examined, so the nature or symptoms of god are unknown. How has a god been researched/examined? What are the symptoms by which you would be able to recognise a god?

I give up. Can somebody else help me here?

[ughaibu]

All you appear to be saying is that some people believe in god, and that's no news, in fact it's implicit in the title and intent of this thead.

[InfiniteNow]

What are the symptoms by which you would be able to recognise a god?

Hmmm... okay, let me pull out my copy of the DSM-IV.

 

Yep, here it is:

 

The DSM-IV introduced a new V code, religious or spiritual problem (V62.89), which the DSM-IV Sourcebook (Lu et al., 1997) describes as a category to employ in order to explicitly differentiate psychiatric mental disorders (e.g., schizophrenia, major depression) that require clinical attention from profound personal religious concerns that are not mental disorders but may be a focus of clinical attention because of difficulty integrating these experiences into the individual's social or emotional life (e.g., mystical experience, religious doubt). A third distinct category discussed in the sourcebook is labeled pure religious problems. These are described as emotional difficulties that people have within the context of organized religion and warrant neither clinical attention nor a DSM-IV diagnosis (e.g., mourning rituals, religious doctrine).

 

 

An example of the first category (mental disorders that present with religious ideation) would be a young man with schizophrenia who has isolated himself in his room and reports seeing God talking with His angels. Generally this would follow with treatment by a clinician and hopefully they would be referred to a mental health care professional if the issue were first brought to some religious clergy person.

 

Examples of the second category consist of emotional difficulties resulting from strong religious experiences and may include mystical experiences or questions of personal faith that leave a person with troubling questions, emotional discomfort and a sense of isolation. Although these problems may be a focus of clinical attention, they are not mental disorders and could receive a DSM-IV diagnosis of religious or spiritual problem.

 

 

 

Ahhh... now THAT's a bible! :cup:

[questor]

Rebiu, you, like so many here, say you don't believe in God, but you give no reason for your position. what mental process made you take this position?

there are many things we cannot explain, but we observe them, (gravity). there are things some here believe, but there is no evidence for them, (gravitons). why the dichotomy of thought? why not deny the existence of the predictions of any theory that cannot be proved right off? with the weirdness of the phenomenae of the universe, why would the presence of a supreme being be any more difficult to believe than any other conjecture?

[Racoon]

I have read this entire thread.

Very intelligent discourse.

BUT

It all seems to be much ado without nothing.

People "splitting hairs" as someone mentioned.

 

Either you believe in god

You don't believe in god

or you are still not sure and leave the possibility open...

 

I did like Tormods marble analogy. ;)

I am also impressed with Biochemists writing. :D

 

haha...Guess we won't really know for sure till we're dead.

And if there is NO God when we're dead - It won't make a difference then either will it?

[Rebiu]

Rebiu, you, like so many here, say you don't believe in God, but you give no reason for your position. what mental process made you take this position?

there are many things we cannot explain, but we observe them, (gravity). there are things some here believe, but there is no evidence for them, (gravitons). why the dichotomy of thought? why not deny the existence of the predictions of any theory that cannot be proved right off? with the weirdness of the phenomenae of the universe, why would the presence of a supreme being be any more difficult to believe than any other conjecture?

People have reasons to believe. Your presumption that belief is the natural state of mind regarding god is erroneous. I do not believe in god because there is absolutely no evidence or even defined concept to believe in. One cannot prove a negative. This fact does not validate the existence of god.

The concept of a god is not a theory. It does not make predictions. The word god means everything and therefore nothing. In order for there to be a theory there must be some purposed understanding of how the phenomenon occurs. God is usually described as supernatural and therefore beyond the capacity of human understanding. This hardly allows for the same application of logic as natural phenomenon.

[infamous]

One cannot prove a negative.

What's so very interesting to me is, if your statement, "One cannot prove a negative" is true, then why are so many Atheists frequenting this thread trying to convince we believers that God doesn't exist?............................Infy

[ughaibu]

Infamous: Your post is an insult to those atheists who have responded to Questor.

[Rebiu]

What's so very interesting to me is, if your statement, "One cannot prove a negative" is true, then why are so many Atheists frequenting this thread trying to convince we believers that God doesn't exist?............................Infy

Because he does not exist.

[infamous]

Because he does not exist.

Where is your evidence?

[Edella]

then why are so many Atheists frequenting this thread trying to convince we believers that God doesn't exist?............................Infy

 

I don't think atheists are,I'm certainly not,ughaibu? Rebiu?...No.

 

Will the real Atheist please stand up?

Atheists reject gods for many reasons.Some better than others.Why is this so hard to understand?We don't have one book we hold above all others.A good thing if you ask me.If we did we would probably be tearing each others throats out.

 

Rebiu, you, like so many here, say you don't believe in God, but you give no reason for your position. what mental process made you take this position?

 

Questor,I asume you don't believe in Poseidon,what mental process made you take this position?

 

I reject gods individually.Equal opportunity! Although I really Hated to let Athena go- "Goddess of wisdom and warfare you say?Intriguing, but I'm not sure I can keep you on for the long haul,but I can certainly put in a good word for you..."

 

Alright,I need to work on my humor , but this thread needs a little levity to keep it chuggin' along.It is possible to enjoy this kind discussion.

 

So yesss...I just got back from the bar,and the question I had for my friends(all Christian by the way)was this:What is it about atheism that makes you cringe?

(They do cringe.)The answer-Arrogance.Arrogance? Is this it?Do the believers on this forum think arrogance is the root of the problem with atheism?

"Atheism is arrogant because it puts the self at the center of the universe."said one."Atheism is arrogant because it will not accept the possibility of a higher power."

 

I'm paraphrasing,but this was the most common objection.I would like to hear from some of the theists on this forum their thoughts on the matter.I would especially like to hear from biochemist(I just think he has a way with words.)Infy? Questor?Saitia?(anyone who uses the phrase "fetish of factualized truth")is someone I can learn from.

 

I'll probably look back on this post with embarrassment,but sometimes the pints go down so easily and questions abound...I will try to hone my writing skills.

[infamous]

 

I'll probably look back on this post with embarrassment,but sometimes the pints go down so easily and questions abound...I will try to hone my writing skills.

I think your writing skills a quite good Edella and I appreciate the thoughts you have brought to our attention. My own point of view on the question about the devision between atheists and theists is really one of respect. I have no problem with anyone's belief system, atheist or otherwise. What sets me off is anyone suggesting that anyone that believes in God is somehow less intelligent or less analytical with their thought processes. Believer's have their own set of proofs, very difficult to explain and impossible to prove to those unwilling to believe themselves. And it is strange how this thread attracts so many with the agenda of setting we believer's straight...............Infy