What is needed to creat Proton?

[Dandav]

Let's assume that somewhere in the open space there is a mighty accelerator and we have full control on it.

We can set its size, its Power (including EM energy), Its gravity, Its Temp, its Pressure and so on.

I assume that in this accelerator we can generate particles/antiparticles as electron/positron and quarks/antiquarks (Up & Down).

However, proton is a complex particle as it is a combination of two up quarks, one down quark + gluons while there is no anti-proton or anti-gluons in the nature.

Therefore, do you agree that there is no way to directly create a proton/antiproton in this accelerator?

Hence, could it be that the only way to create a proton is by first creating the Up/down quarks/antiquarks, and just after having the correct quarks we can add the gluons in order to have real proton?

Never the less, as there is no anti-gluons in the nature, how can we get a gluons to be added to those Up/Down quarks in order to set a proton?

[Vmedvil5]

16 hours ago, Dandav said:

Let's assume that somewhere in the open space there is a mighty accelerator and we have full control on it.

We can set its size, its Power (including EM energy), Its gravity, Its Temp, its Pressure and so on.

I assume that in this accelerator we can generate particles/antiparticles as electron/positron and quarks/antiquarks (Up & Down).

However, proton is a complex particle as it is a combination of two up quarks, one down quark + gluons while there is no anti-proton or anti-gluons in the nature.

Therefore, do you agree that there is no way to directly create a proton/antiproton in this accelerator?

Hence, could it be that the only way to create a proton is by first creating the Up/down quarks/antiquarks, and just after having the correct quarks we can add the gluons in order to have real proton?

Never the less, as there is no anti-gluons in the nature, how can we get a gluons to be added to those Up/Down quarks in order to set a proton?

To create a proton and anti-proton pair from energy all you need to do is get a photon with around 2 Gev of energy and it will go through pair production and generate an anti-proton and proton pair. Link = Pair Production – EWT (energywavetheory.com)

"Before we get to the actual answer, there's something that needs to be clarified about the reaction as you've written it down. The reaction γ→e−+e+γ→e−+e+ is not a valid reaction, because it violates conservation of momentum. To see this, consider a photon with energy 2me2me. Since 2me2me is precisely the energy of an electron-positron pair at rest, the momentum of the system is zero after pair production. But since the energy of the initial photon was nonzero, the momentum of the photon was also nonzero. The momentum of the photon is not equal to the total momentum of the electron-positron pair, so this reaction cannot happen as stated (this argument also works when the photon's energy is greater than 2me2me, it's just more straightforward to see in this particular special case).

To see how pair production actually works, let's look at the reverse reaction: electron-positron annihilation, which is the reaction e−+e+→γ+γe−+e+→γ+γ. You can see that, unlike the process you described, two photons are produced by an annihilating electron-positron pair. This means that there's no momentum-conservation issue even when the electron and positron annihilate at rest; the two photons have equal energy and travel away from the vertex back-to-back, so the total momentum before and after annihilation is zero.

Since quantum electrodynamics is time-reversal invariant, the reaction for pair production should look like the reverse of the reaction for electron-positron annihilation. Therefore, the actual process for pair production is γ+γ→e−+e+γ+γ→e−+e+. But this isn't the way that pair production is usually described (people usually talk about a single photon producing a particle-antiparticle pair). Why is this?

The answer is that the second photon is usually a virtual photon, a mathematical tool used to describe one of the produced charges' interaction with some other nearby charge. Pair production cannot occur spontaneously in a complete vacuum. There has to be some other charged object somewhere in the universe that can carry off the difference in momentum between the initial photon and the electron-positron pair. An example diagram of this process is below:

Fortunately, even in intergalactic space, there's still at least some amount of charge floating around, so this typically isn't a concern, and as a result we tend to omit the other virtual photon when we discuss pair production colloquially.

---

With that said, there are two essentially unrelated questions being asked here:

Can you produce a proton-antiproton pair from a photon in a way analogous to electron-positron pair production?

The answer to this is yes, it's definitely possible. All you would need is a photon with energy greater than 2mp2mp, which is roughly 1.876 GeV, and there would be some chance of it happening. However, a photon with energy that high can also produce a particle-antiparticle pair of anything with electrically-charged constituents that is lighter than a proton, which includes electrons and many types of mesons (e.g. pions). So you wouldn't be guaranteed to see proton-antiproton pair production for a single given photon of this energy or higher, but if you had enough of them, then you would eventually see the process you described happen (the same caveats apply - you can't do this in an empty universe, one of the produced particles has to exchange a virtual photon with some external charge). This process tends to be really rare simply because there aren't really any natural processes that generate photons that have such high energies.

How are proton-antiproton pairs produced?

Probably the most common mechanism, both in cosmic-ray antimatter generation and in the laboratory, is inelastic scattering of a proton off of a nucleus, p+A→p+p¯+p+Ap+A→p+p¯+p+A. For cosmic-ray protons, AA is typically a nucleus in the interstellar medium. For laboratory protons, AA is typically a nucleus in some sort of collision target in an accelerator beamline."

and also, there is synthetic particle confinement synthesis to consider, link = https://www.scienceforums.com/topic/36969-synthetic-particle-confinement-synthesis/

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Vmedvil5

[JeffreysTubes8]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:22 PM, Vmedvil5 said:

To create a proton and anti-proton pair from energy all you need to do is get a photon with around 2 Gev of energy and it will go through pair production and generate an anti-proton and proton pair. Link = Pair Production – EWT (energywavetheory.com)

"Before we get to the actual answer, there's something that needs to be clarified about the reaction as you've written it down. The reaction γ→e−+e+γ→e−+e+ is not a valid reaction, because it violates conservation of momentum. To see this, consider a photon with energy 2me2me. Since 2me2me is precisely the energy of an electron-positron pair at rest, the momentum of the system is zero after pair production. But since the energy of the initial photon was nonzero, the momentum of the photon was also nonzero. The momentum of the photon is not equal to the total momentum of the electron-positron pair, so this reaction cannot happen as stated (this argument also works when the photon's energy is greater than 2me2me, it's just more straightforward to see in this particular special case).

To see how pair production actually works, let's look at the reverse reaction: electron-positron annihilation, which is the reaction e−+e+→γ+γe−+e+→γ+γ. You can see that, unlike the process you described, two photons are produced by an annihilating electron-positron pair. This means that there's no momentum-conservation issue even when the electron and positron annihilate at rest; the two photons have equal energy and travel away from the vertex back-to-back, so the total momentum before and after annihilation is zero.

Since quantum electrodynamics is time-reversal invariant, the reaction for pair production should look like the reverse of the reaction for electron-positron annihilation. Therefore, the actual process for pair production is γ+γ→e−+e+γ+γ→e−+e+. But this isn't the way that pair production is usually described (people usually talk about a single photon producing a particle-antiparticle pair). Why is this?

The answer is that the second photon is usually a virtual photon, a mathematical tool used to describe one of the produced charges' interaction with some other nearby charge. Pair production cannot occur spontaneously in a complete vacuum. There has to be some other charged object somewhere in the universe that can carry off the difference in momentum between the initial photon and the electron-positron pair. An example diagram of this process is below:

Fortunately, even in intergalactic space, there's still at least some amount of charge floating around, so this typically isn't a concern, and as a result we tend to omit the other virtual photon when we discuss pair production colloquially.

---

With that said, there are two essentially unrelated questions being asked here:

Can you produce a proton-antiproton pair from a photon in a way analogous to electron-positron pair production?

The answer to this is yes, it's definitely possible. All you would need is a photon with energy greater than 2mp2mp, which is roughly 1.876 GeV, and there would be some chance of it happening. However, a photon with energy that high can also produce a particle-antiparticle pair of anything with electrically-charged constituents that is lighter than a proton, which includes electrons and many types of mesons (e.g. pions). So you wouldn't be guaranteed to see proton-antiproton pair production for a single given photon of this energy or higher, but if you had enough of them, then you would eventually see the process you described happen (the same caveats apply - you can't do this in an empty universe, one of the produced particles has to exchange a virtual photon with some external charge). This process tends to be really rare simply because there aren't really any natural processes that generate photons that have such high energies.

How are proton-antiproton pairs produced?

Probably the most common mechanism, both in cosmic-ray antimatter generation and in the laboratory, is inelastic scattering of a proton off of a nucleus, p+A→p+p¯+p+Ap+A→p+p¯+p+A. For cosmic-ray protons, AA is typically a nucleus in the interstellar medium. For laboratory protons, AA is typically a nucleus in some sort of collision target in an accelerator beamline."

and also, there is synthetic particle confinement synthesis to consider, link = https://www.scienceforums.com/topic/36969-synthetic-particle-confinement-synthesis/

 

Wow you're going the extra mile to try and sell useless information and obfuscate actual physics into oblivion.

A photon can't produce a proton. Particle accelerators like CERN don't work like that.  

[Vmedvil5]

4 hours ago, JeffreysTubes8 said:

Wow you're going the extra mile to try and sell useless information and obfuscate actual physics into oblivion.

A photon can't produce a proton. Particle accelerators like CERN don't work like that.  

You would be wrong, pair production is well known mainstream physics, link = Pair production - Wikipedia and Proton-Antiproton Pair Production in Two-Photon Collisions at Belle (researchgate.net)

Edited November 18, 2022 by Vmedvil5

[JeffreysTubes8]

3 hours ago, Vmedvil5 said:

You would be wrong, pair production is well known mainstream physics, link = Pair production - Wikipedia and Proton-Antiproton Pair Production in Two-Photon Collisions at Belle (researchgate.net)

It’s not creating the proton there are particles all around the area, if the photon happens to cause them to materialize here as opposed to there it’s due to retrocausality. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by JeffreysTubes8

[Dandav]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:22 PM, Vmedvil5 said:

Can you produce a proton-antiproton pair from a photon in a way analogous to electron-positron pair production?

The answer to this is yes, it's definitely possible. All you would need is a photon with energy greater than 2mp2mp, which is roughly 1.876 GeV, and there would be some chance of it happening. However, a photon with energy that high can also produce a particle-antiparticle pair of anything with electrically-charged constituents that is lighter than a proton, which includes electrons and many types of mesons (e.g. pions). So you wouldn't be guaranteed to see proton-antiproton pair production for a single given photon of this energy or higher, but if you had enough of them, then you would eventually see the process you described happen (the same caveats apply - you can't do this in an empty universe, one of the produced particles has to exchange a virtual photon with some external charge). This process tends to be really rare simply because there aren't really any natural processes that generate photons that have such high energies.

Thanks for the great explanation.

 

On 11/18/2022 at 10:41 AM, JeffreysTubes8 said:

A photon can't produce a proton. Particle accelerators like CERN don't work like that.  

Could it be that CERN is just too small?

Could it be that in the nature three are some mighty particle accelerators?

Let's focus on the SMBH' accretion disc:

This aria is under extreme gravitational force, Electromagnetics field, Pressure....

The plasma there is full with ultra-high temp (10^9 c) particles that orbit at almost the speed of light (0.3c).

So, could it be that this ultra-high temp & orbital velocity indicate that the particles at the accretion disc have been created by the EM + Gravitational force of the SMBH in the process that is called pair production?

On 11/18/2022 at 3:17 PM, Vmedvil5 said:

pair production is well known mainstream physics, link = Pair production - Wikipedia and Proton-Antiproton Pair Production in Two-Photon Collisions at Belle (researchgate.net)

Could it be that some of those new created particales have enough energy to generate proton-antiproton pair production while they colide with each other?

Edited November 25, 2022 by Dandav