Death....is it the end?

[Mynameisaw]

I voted no since i believe that there is something after death, i dont know what it is but i believe theres something wether it is rebirth, heaven/hell, or just like a dream of what ever you want I dont know i will know eventually, as for the NDE's not all can be a hallucination since a hallucination is from things like low oxygen levels and other things, there are accounts of near death experiences have occured yet non of these things are present.

[UV-gap]

Death is not even a beginning. It is just a thought. It ends as does a book or movie. Stop reading the book and it is dreamless-sleep, the computer turned off. Wake up in the morning and it is like turning the computer on.

 

In death you are what you have eternally been: Samadhi, Nirvana, dreamless-sleep, Heaven it-SELF.

 

It is the Supreme Comedy: YOU ARE Heaven it-SELF, Samadhi, and life, "reality" is your fiction, thoughts.

[Fiona]

Re earlier comments from several members about NDE's, I guess one could construct a pretty convincing argument centred around the biochemcial and electrical activity of the dying brain creating the NDE. However, as commented on, this does not account for those who claim to have experienced out of body consciousness not associated with near death. Are such people deluded? hallucinating?, perhaps lying? Or have they discovered something utterley incomprehensible yet nonetheless true - that consciousness can exist outside of the physical body? - Perhaps then, even beyond the life of the physical body?

[Mynameisaw]

theres nothing to say that they are lying, but then again theres nothing to say they aren't, they may be deluded or just attention seekers we will never actually know for certain.

[CraigD]

Re earlier comments from several members about NDE's, I guess one could construct a pretty convincing argument centred around the biochemcial and electrical activity of the dying brain creating the NDE. However, as commented on, this does not account for those who claim to have experienced out of body consciousness not associated with near death. Are such people deluded? hallucinating?, perhaps lying? Or have they discovered something utterley incomprehensible yet nonetheless true - that consciousness can exist outside of the physical body? - Perhaps then, even beyond the life of the physical body?

It’s not necessary to explain “out of body consciousness” (ie: astral projection, remote viewing), or the psychology of people claiming to have it, to demonstrate that it exists. It can be tested by a simple experiment such as writing a short, random number or word where an experimental subject can’t see it, and having them “out of body” to it, read it, and report it.

 

Simple as this is, nobody has successfully done it in a controlled (that is, not using stage magical trickery) experiment. This leads me to conclude that out-of-body experiences (reported by people who are not consciously lying about having had them) are not experiences of objective reality, but are dream experience, hallucinatory experiences, or inaccurate memories.

 

Persisting in claims that OBEs are objectively real when presented with no supporting evidence can be considered mildly delusional.

[stamarama]

I'm new to the forum and voted on the "Death - Is it the End?" question. I voted no. I firmly believe that the essence of me, my soul, will continue on after the dissolution of my physical body. A scientifically provable belief? I don't think so, and I don't think it ever will be; the tools of science are not capable or gathering the kind of information that would allow a conclusion, or perhaps even a hypothesis, to be reached on the subject. Philosophy can make an approach, but the question of conscious existence after death is answerable only in the realm of religion (and by religion I mean the personal relationship between an individual and God, not the organized social structures grown up around various sets of dogma and belief). Science is a wonderful tool for investigating the phenomena of the natural world, but it flounders when considering questions that impinge on the nature of things spiritual.

 

Now, all of the preceding is just my opinion, and I can't speak with authority because I haven't died yet. Billions of people already have, but they're not talking, at least not in a scientifically verifiable way. I may be surprised to find that I'm not there after the candle goes out, but then I won't exist so there will be no "me" to register the shock of non-existence. If, however, I do "wake up", then my faith will have been validated. And what would be the point of faith if the answer was revealed to us (concerning existence after death) beforehand? Perhaps it's good that science cannot explain the mysteries of the soul and the spirit because that might spoil things - like revealing the end of a movie.

[InfiniteNow]

I firmly believe that the essence of me, my soul, will continue on after the dissolution of my physical body. A scientifically provable belief? I don't think so, and I don't think it ever will be; the tools of science are not capable or gathering the kind of information that would allow a conclusion, or perhaps even a hypothesis, to be reached on the subject. Philosophy can make an approach, but the question of conscious existence after death is answerable only in the realm of religion (and by religion I mean the personal relationship between an individual and God, not the organized social structures grown up around various sets of dogma and belief). Science is a wonderful tool for investigating the phenomena of the natural world, but it flounders when considering questions that impinge on the nature of things spiritual.

I'll take a stab at it.

 

Your existence includes the neural wiring you have impacted in others. People around you have a mental construction which IS you in their minds, and they carry on after your death. You've also impacted the structure of the world around you just by moving through it, and those changes remain after your passing. Hence, you exist in much the same way you always did, even though your own neural wiring and future impact on the environment around you have been subtracted from it all.

 

 

Phew... thank goodness for strange claims. :cup:

[Boerseun]

As to the question, namely "Death being the end", why would that necessarily be a bad thing?

 

Is it simply because we, like all animals, are hard-wired for self preservation that we refuse to accept that regardless of how healthy we live or to what extent we can avoid danger, death is final? To such an extent that we delude ourselves with beliefs to the contrary?

 

I think death is final, and there's no point in fearing it, seeing as it's inevitable. But I think denying the harsh reality and truth of the matter is simply a waste of time to make the biologically mechanical process of death and decomposition slightly less repulsive. We also wish to believe that our loved ones who have passed away are out there, somewhere, waiting for us.

 

But wishful thinking and make-believe won't make it so.

 

Does a rat go to "rat-heaven" once its dead? The differences (biologically speaking) between rats and humans are marginal, at best.

 

So, there goes my vote.

[Mynameisaw]

how is it wishful thinking that there is a life after death? it is not wishful thinking it may be truth there is nothing to say it isnt or that it is.

[Boerseun]

how is it wishful thinking that there is a life after death? it is not wishful thinking it may be truth there is nothing to say it isnt or that it is.

Do you want there to be life after death? If so, why?

[Mynameisaw]

a better question would be why someone wouldnt want there to be a life after death? why would someone want there to be nothing after we die?

[Boerseun]

a better question would be why someone wouldnt want there to be a life after death? why would someone want there to be nothing after we die?

You didn't answer my question. You're dodging it.

 

I do not want there to be life after death, and I do not want there to not be life after death. I'm completely indifferent towards it. If it happens, it happens.

 

There is, however, zero evidence to support the idea of life after death. And if I live my life with the hope and expectation of still *being around* after I croak, in the face of overwhelming evidence, then that is clearly a case of wishful thinking, and a total waste of time.

 

But don't let me explode your illusions, now. Whatever makes you happy and all.

[Mynameisaw]

right you say no proof for it what proof is there against it? and as to your question yes i believe there is something after death maybe not life as it is now but i do not believe it is the end.

[InfiniteNow]

right you say no proof for it what proof is there against it? and as to your question yes i believe there is something after death maybe not life as it is now but i do not believe it is the end.

Yes, what proof do we have AGAINST purple dragons, magical unicorns, and drunken leprechauns at the end of rainbows... ;)

[Mynameisaw]

I give up your all too stuck up to listen.

[InfiniteNow]

You've not asked me any questions friend. Please pay attention.

 

Also, when you make a claim, the burden of proof fails on you to support it, not to others to disprove your claim.

[stamarama]

I guess I should weigh in again.

 

The evidence for the reality of the continued existence of the personality (my personality, your personality) after the shuffling-off of the mortal coil is rooted in the faith of the believing person, and, as such, is not arguable in logical terms, or in terms that those without faith (in the survival of the personality) will accept. So those with faith will loose the argument in logical terms because all they can offer is something to the effect of, "I know, because I know" - a statement that will illicit hoots of derision those who require empirical proof of any sort of assertion. But to the practicers of faith, those who nuture a relationship with God, this knowledge is unassailably real.

 

But what about those souls who's meditations on faith lead them to the conclusion that life after death will be full of milk and honey and virgins, all the more certaint if they strap on a bomb belt and explode themselves in a crowd of non-believing infidels? Well, all I can say is there's much confusion in the world about what is true. Jesus had a nice suggestion for how to discern the truth. He said something like, "If a tree is good, it will produce good fruit; if it's not, the fruit will be bitter." There seems to be a lot of bitter fruit out in the world these days. But a lot of good fruit too.

 

Shalom

 

G