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Apparent contradictions in the Bible


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Secondly, are you going to not let people be born who will make bad choices? Or just those who make a LOT of bad choices? Where do you draw that line- you can't take away freedom, but you can't let people choice bad things?

 

Freedom carries a lot of negitives along with it- responsibility, the ability to do evil. Perhaps thats why in the story of the Garden of Eden, the fruit isn't neccesarily a happy thing. Knowledge of good and evil implies the ability to do good and evil- but happy things don't neccesarily result from that knowledge.

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Regarding the Gen 1 and 2 issue of creation, it was suggested to me some time ago that "creating" something (gen 1) wasn't necessarily the same as "forming from dust" in the case of man (gen 2), or "c

I would like to suggest that Genesis, for one is but a fragment of an expanded story written in clay tablets of the Sumarian Civilization, some 5000 yrears BC. I suspect that Skippy will not budge mu

My point was that kids don't learn to lie. It is something that is natural for them. Have you ever met a totally honest person, even a child? I doubt it. I know that I have never met one. Was it 'unsa

Obviously Jesus did a good job spreading faith around at that time, because it spread like wildfire.

To me, that speaks volumes about Jesus and His ministry. Think about it... would YOU, adnaan, be asking any of the questions in this forum if you were an eyewitness to Jesus speaking the sermon of the mount? If you witnessed Him making the blind see, the lame walk, the few loaves and fishes feed the multitudes? The people who followed Him, many to a cruel martyr's death, were eyewitnesses or were being taught by those who were.

 

As for the growth of Islam, much of the growth (I think) is due to the birth rate in Muslim countries and efforts by many to increase the chances of survival of htese births. I think you will find that few conversions from any other religion, with the possible exception of those who have converted to the pseudo-Islam group in the U.S. known as "The Nation of Islam." I say "pseudo" because I think you would be hard-pressed to find anything about spaceships being taught by the mullahs in the Middle East, but you can surf the net and listen to Louis Farrakhan speak about such things.

 

I see a lot of good answers here... keep looking for the Truth and you will find it. Remember, The Truth is not always the easy thing, or what seems to you to be the logical thing... that is where Tom Cruise and his ilk have gone terribly wrong.

 

Skippy

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Who found the empty tomb?

According to Matthew 28:1, only "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary."

 

According to Mark 16:1, "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome."

 

According to Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10, "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." Luke indicates in verse 24:10 that there were at least two others.

 

According to John 20:1-4, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb alone, saw the stone removed, ran to find Peter, and returned to the tomb with Peter and another disciple.

 

Who did they find at the tomb?

According to Matthew 28:2-4, an angel of the Lord with an appearance like lightning was sitting on the stone that had been rolled away. Also present were the guards that Pilate had contributed. On the way back from the tomb the women meet Jesus (Matthew 28:9).

 

According to Mark 16:5, a young man in a white robe was sitting inside the tomb.

 

According to Luke 24:4, two men in dazzling apparel. It is not clear if the men were inside the tomb or outside of it.

 

According to John 20:4-14, Mary and Peter and the other disciple initially find just an empty tomb. Peter and the other disciple enter the tomb and find only the wrappings. Then Peter and the other disciple leave and Mary looks in the tomb to find two angels in white. After a short conversation with the angels, Mary turns around to find Jesus.

 

Who did the women tell about the empty tomb?

According to Mark 16:8, "they said nothing to anyone."

 

According to Matthew 28:8, they "ran to report it to His disciples."

 

According to Luke 24:9, "they reported these things to the eleven and to all the rest."

 

According to John 20:18, Mary Magdalene announces to the disciples that she has seen the Lord.

 

You may find contradiction here if you choose to. All the versions say Mary went to the tomb, some say with others. John 20 only mentions Mary but it doesn't say she was alone. Let me give you a personal story to explain the story differences - when I was 18 I was robbed by a guy in the passenegr seat of a small car. I was able to ID theat guy and I can still describe the revolver he had, but it was my girlfriend who told me that there were 3 others in the car too, and that unlike the gunman, the girl in the backseat was dressed to the nines and she was white while he was black. When the two of us told our story mine has far fewer details about the car and more about the gunman and his gun- but we were both telling the exact same story and were both eyewitnesses to that story.

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To me, that speaks volumes about Jesus and His ministry. Think about it... would YOU, adnaan, be asking any of the questions in this forum if you were an eyewitness to Jesus speaking the sermon of the mount? If you witnessed Him making the blind see, the lame walk, the few loaves and fishes feed the multitudes? The people who followed Him, many to a cruel martyr's death, were eyewitnesses or were being taught by those who were.

 

I thought Christianity didn't spread like wildfire untill Constantine converted and made it the state religion. Also, the same point, the "would you be asking questions if you witnessed.." applies to nearly every charismatic religious leader. Muhammad had many followers, Jesus had many followers, Abraham, Buddha, etc. It certainly doesn't validate one religion over another.

-Will

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In Genesis 1, God creates all those living things first, then man and woman; in Genesis 2, he creates man and then all the living things and then woman. What gets me here is that God creates an evil snake to tempt them with evil, when he already knows the outcome. This is really starting to not agree with me, I'm afraid. At least, not this book.

God did not, cannot create evil. He is the antithesis of evil. By giving His creation freewill, he allowed ego to enter in, hence Lucifer's sin. Then Lucifer, in the form of a serpent, tempted the woman.

 

 

I'm also wondering about the ages in Genesis 5 - if these guys lived for: Seth lived for 807 years; Enosh lived for 815 years, sorry, 905 years,Kenan lived 910 years, Mahalalel lived 895 years, Jared lived 962 years; etc. These few people pretty much wipe out the 4000 years before Christ's death. Is this a translation problem, or am I really expected to believe this AND that the Earth was created sometime circa 4000 BC? This isn't really a contradiction of the Bible, but more between the Bible and James Ussher. Sorry - I read it incorrectly - that's how long they were said to have lived, but they had children at the age of: Adam was 130 years old, Set was 105 years old, Enosh was 90 years old, Kenan was 70 years old, Mehalalel was 65, Jared was 162, Enoch was 65, Methusalah was 187,Lamech was 182, then Lamech had Noah, who was 500 years old before he had his three children. That's over 1500 years! I guess I have never understood or believed in the bible's concept of time, anyway... but I know some who take it very literally, and I don't understand this.

 

I have wondered on this as well, but a simple exercise cleared it up for me. My concern was that Methuselah would have drowned in the Great Flood, or that his son Lamech who was Noah's father drowned. When you do the math, both died shortly before the flood and you see that their lives overlapped; i.e.- Methusaleh, Lamech and Noah are three generations of that family, yet all their lives overlapped. in 4000 years, assuming an average age of 20 years when a person had their first child (generous in those times and for that part of the world) one would have had 200 generations. Depending on the source (I haven't added them up myself) there were 77 generations from Adam to Jesus in 4000 years. So there was plenty of time left (123 possible generations left over).

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I thought Christianity didn't spread like wildfire untill Constantine converted and made it the state religion. ...
I think Skippy is closer to the mark on this issue, but there is some disagreement over this. The church was certainly less overt when Christians were under the threat of death. Constantine made Christianty required, so you would expect to se a jump in "reported" Christians. I am not sure that helped the church overall.

 

The apostles established viable churches from Palestine, across Asia Minor, through Greece and Rome and reportedly all the way to Spain during their lifetimes. That was quite a feat in the absence of good transportaion or communication systems. Some folks suggest that God had something to do with it. Imagine that.

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So you really and truly believe the Earth is only 6000 years old or so?

-Will

I believe what The Bible says, "from the Table of Contents to the maps." I suppose you will label me a mental midget for that. I can't explain everything in The Bible, try as I may. But, I recognize that I am only human and many things are beyond my understanding. For me, that is OK, I have faith that God knows what He is doing.

 

If you want to discuss dinosaurs - see Job 3 and 41, or Psalm 74 and 104 or Isaiah 27. As for the question of time, see 2 Peter 3:8... God is timeless, He told Moses what to write in Genesis 1, do you think Moses would understand "a million years?" Do you? Also, "a day" is used as a figure of speech even now, as in, "In my day..." That didn't and doesn't mean one specific day.

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..Depending on the source (I haven't added them up myself) there were 77 generations from Adam to Jesus in 4000 years. So there was plenty of time left (123 possible generations left over).
This is another suspicious element that suggests part of this is Hebrew poetry. You might glance at my post #47 in this thread (part 3 of it) where I spoke about some of the anomalies in the genealogies that suggest they might be poetic, not arithmetic. The notion that Jesus was 77 generations from Adam may be another example of use of the "7" metaphor in Hebrew for "very" or "many".
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The difference is that a god, being all knowing, would know ahead of time how the kids will turn out. If you knew before you had the child that it would become a mass murderer would that effect your decision to have the child?

-Will

What if you knew this mass murderer would impregnate a woman during his life that would give birth to a baby who would grow into the scientist that discovers a cure for AIDS? In reality, there are many, many consequenses to a soul proceeding through existance, many bad and many good.

 

Matthew 13:24-30 nkjv

"Another parable He put forth to them, saying: 'The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, "Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?" He said to them, "An enemy has done this." The servants said to him, "Do you want us then to go and gather them up?" But he said, "No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, 'First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.' " ' "

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I think Skippy is closer to the mark on this issue, but there is some disagreement over this. The church was certainly less overt when Christians were under the threat of death. Constantine made Christianty required, so you would expect to se a jump in "reported" Christians. I am not sure that helped the church overall.

 

The apostles established viable churches from Palestine, across Asia Minor, through Greece and Rome and reportedly all the way to Spain during their lifetimes. That was quite a feat in the absence of good transportaion or communication systems. Some folks suggest that God had something to do with it. Imagine that.

 

This is certainly a topic I'd like to do more research on. Do you know any good sources discussing the spread of the early church?

 

And, as a side note, every religion believes that the truth of its message, and help from the almighty, helped to spread it in its early days. It doesn't mean God helped, it doesn't mean he/she/it didn't.

-Will

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I believe what The Bible says, "from the Table of Contents to the maps." I suppose you will label me a mental midget for that. I can't explain everything in The Bible, try as I may. But, I recognize that I am only human and many things are beyond my understanding. For me, that is OK, I have faith that God knows what He is doing.

 

I never meant to imply you were a "mental midget" if you feel insulted, I apologize. I had just never encountered a young earth believer, and was curious. While I don't share your faith, I don't think its entirely unreasonable, I'm just not sure which book to go with (qur'an, buddhist scriptures, bible, torah, what have you).

-Will

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I'm also wondering about the ages in Genesis 5 - if these guys lived for: Seth lived for 807 years; Enosh lived for 815 years, sorry, 905 years,Kenan lived 910 years, Mahalalel lived 895 years, Jared lived 962 years; etc. These few people pretty much wipe out the 4000 years before Christ's death. Is this a translation problem, or am I really expected to believe this AND that the Earth was created sometime circa 4000 BC? This isn't really a contradiction of the Bible, but more between the Bible and James Ussher. Sorry - I read it incorrectly - that's how long they were said to have lived, but they had children at the age of: Adam was 130 years old, Set was 105 years old, Enosh was 90 years old, Kenan was 70 years old, Mehalalel was 65, Jared was 162, Enoch was 65, Methusalah was 187,Lamech was 182, then Lamech had Noah, who was 500 years old before he had his three children. That's over 1500 years! I guess I have never understood or believed in the bible's concept of time, anyway... but I know some who take it very literally, and I don't understand this.

The only reason we have a figure of approx. 4k b.c. is from directly adding these ages in the OT. Nowhere else is it noted when God created the universe and earth, so there can be no contradiction with the ages.

 

http://www.stanford.edu/~meehan/donnelly/bibchron.html

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The young earth age was arrived at by using the geneologies, so don't expect to find any contradictions there. If the geneologies turn out to be poetic, or only listing "important" people, or somehow non-sequential, then the young earth age will be invalidated.

 

That's not to say the earth couldn't be young, just that the actual date, 4004 BC, would be incorrect.

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If the geneologies turn out to be poetic, or only listing "important" people, or somehow non-sequential, then the young earth age will be invalidated.

That is negatively evidenced by the NT.

 

Matthew 1:17

"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

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Erasmus00: The difference is that a god, being all knowing, would know ahead of time how the kids will turn out. If you knew before you had the child that it would become a mass murderer would that effect your decision to have the child?

 

Hey, I think you're onto something. All of those millions of human embryos and fetuses that God kills each year were probably just going to turn out to be mass murders: that's why He killed them. Well, I guess He just misses a couple future mass murders ever few years ... He's only human afterall.

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