Is it all in our heads?

[Dark Mind]

I think that if small children are never taught that "bad words" are "bad" then they will eventually lose their negative connotation and we won't have a need for blockers and bleeping on the internet and TV.

 

The child only thinks of the word as being bad because they are taught that it is and it then brings forth a sense of rebellion and andrenaline every time they use it, knowing they might get in trouble. I propose to stop teaching kids that the "F" word and others are "bad" and just let them think of the words as being exlamations, kind of like a reflex.

 

When you are hurt you say "Oww!", reflex. When you are hurt you say "FXXX!", reflex (for some). If you are a child and in the presence of adults instead of peers your natural reaction might conflict with what is expected of you, like a twelve year in the presence of friends/peers might say "FXXX! That hurt!" after falling off a bike but when in the presence of adults know that when they say that they will get in trouble for saying a bad word; so the child goes through those thought processes, realizes they were about to say something they shouldn't, stops themself and thinks that they are a bad or immoral person.

 

If the child is never taught that the word is bad it just becomes a reflex and *just another word* to say. It will not connotate any negative thoughts or feelings when the word is said and it will not make the child/person think they are "bad" for using a "bad word".

 

Sorry it's not very clear, just getting some ideas out there for debate and off of my chest, I"m tired of "bad words" being "bad"!!:note:

 

Bottom line- They're just words and they are only bad if you perceive them to be so. :note:

[bumab]

....if you are a child and in the presence of adults instead of peers your natural reaction might conflict with what is expected of you, like a twelve year in the presence of friends/peers might say "FXXX! That hurt!" after falling off a bike but when in the presence of adults know that when they say that they will get in trouble for saying a bad word; so the child goes through those thought processes, realizes they were about to say something they shouldn't, stops themself and thinks that they are a bad or immoral person.....

 

Bottom line- They're just words and they are only bad if you perceive them to be so. :note:

 

I like your thinking, and agree. But maybe the reason words can be "bad" is not something intrinsic in the word. Maybe, you should consider them "bad" because they offend others in some way. What's bad is not the word itself, but the effect your saying that word has on others is.

 

To often we think about what's "right and wrong" as far as actions go and forgot why we even care about right and wrong in the first place.

[bumab]

Oh, and to get it back on track- sometimes a word is just a word. :note:

[Biochemist]

Bottom line- They're just words and they are only bad if you perceive them to be so.

It is not the word that are the problem, it is the intent. It is one this to say "Oh S***". It is something else to say "take your F-ing hands off my car or I will knock the s*** out ot you". Unfortunately, the loss of decorum that is endemic in folks with crass language typically extends from the former to the latter.

 

It is easier and more effective with young people to establish an understandable rule until they are old enough to discriminate.

[UncleAl]

What is the purpose of language? To seduce, to complain, to deny. Your thesis is therefore without merit. Get thee to an academic library and look up Maledicta: The International Journal of Verbal Aggression. Learn something about that upon which you pontificate.

 

http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/

[TINNY]

If kids are not taught that bad words are bad, they will discover for themselves.

When you are hurt you say "Oww!", reflex. When you are hurt you say "FXXX!", reflex (for some).

Any sort of grunt would be regarded as reflex. But saying "FXXX!" is not a reflex, but a learned behavior, which normally occurs through 'modelling'. World society has deviated so far from positive moral practises that they find it cool to be bad. So when young children see bad guys saying "FXXX!" and being seen as cool, they will follow suit.

[Dark Mind]

I like your thinking, and agree. But maybe the reason words can be "bad" is not something intrinsic in the word. Maybe, you should consider them "bad" because they offend others in some way. What's bad is not the word itself, but the effect your saying that word has on others is...

I know, and I think that if just one generation of kids were not taught that some words are bad and the older generations just learned to accept it until they die, bad words may become extinct. Oh, happy day :note:.

To often we think about what's "right and wrong" as far as actions go and forgot why we even care about right and wrong in the first place.

I believe that is what has happened in our generation.

 

Who was around when the words actually *started* and *became* "bad? "Anyone know the first person to say the "F" word? And why was it considered bad? Were the people who used it "bad", and the word became associated with them, like today's gangs and their gang signs?

[Queso]

:note: west coast, mang.

[Dark Mind]

It is not the word that are the problem, it is the intent. It is one this to say "Oh S***". It is something else to say "take your F-ing hands off my car or I will knock the s*** out ot you". Unfortunately, the loss of decorum that is endemic in folks with crass language typically extends from the former to the latter.

But the word doesn't need to be perceived as bad, nor does the intent need to be bad. The person may just get really angry about a certain person touching their car and in their anger be at a lack of more... eloquent language to use, such as "May you please remove youre hands from my car?". It's all a mental thing, and I agree with the fact that the intent may be "bad" when yelling like that, it may also just be part of you, and your up-bringing or surroundings. You don't have to think of the words as "bad" when you use them, they can just be filler in your speech without someone ever knowing other people consider the word "bad" or "wrong".

It is easier and more effective with young people to establish an understandable rule until they are old enough to discriminate

But if there is a rule, there is somewhere to err. If the rule is broken the child is filled with a sense of andrenaline(possibility of getting caught for doing something "wrong") or maybe failure(failed to meet expectations of others and feels like they disappointed others), either one can break self esteem or create a habit in which the child feels like they are rebelling and doing something "wrong", which makes it easier for them to do things that are *actually* damaging/hurtful to others because it creates a pattern, and patterns are easy for humans to follow.

[Dark Mind]

What is the purpose of language? To seduce, to complain, to deny. Your thesis is therefore without merit...

As are most philosophical statements, and statements of human behavior. But research is possible, and has given merit to many such statements. :hyper:

Get thee to an academic library and look up Maledicta: The International Journal of Verbal Aggression. Learn something about that upon which you pontificate.

That last sentence... Is it an oxy-moron? Never mind... True, it is a pontification (If you perceive my beliefs to be "unprovable"). It is also no more than an observation of daily human behavior and my beliefs on how to end at least a small part of daily stresses/nuisances/annoyances caused by nothing more than language.:note:

 

Maledicta didn't really help too much.:hyper:

[Dark Mind]

If kids are not taught that bad words are bad, they will discover for themselves.

Any sort of grunt would be regarded as reflex. But saying "FXXX!" is not a reflex, but a learned behavior, which normally occurs through 'modelling'.

But the learner doesn't have to perceive or know that the language is socially unacceptable, all they really understand it as is "filler" for speech. It's just a word that has no real merit or definition, it's just something to say, like "Ouch."(Although we've all come to understand that as an exclamation of pain, "FXXX" is also generally understood as an exclamation of surprise or anger. Nothing "bad" there :note:.).

World society has deviated so far from positive moral practises that they find it cool to be bad. So when young children see bad guys saying "FXXX!" and being seen as cool, they will follow suit.

They are only "bad" if perceived to be so, I personally might find the "Tooth Fairy" to be a "bad" person (The reasons don't have to be clear, they just have to be there, in whoever's mind they may exist. And that is why I propose to stop teaching certain words as being "bad". It gives much less reason to perceive *words* as "evil" and "bad".)

[BEAKER]

Back to Bio's observation - What is the intent behind the usge? Also, "civilized people" (and I use the term loosly) are considered to be civilized largely because of their self control in varrious areas - not the least of which is speach. Any idiot can cuss. It takes a more mature person to confront a situation with less unbridled speach and more thoughtfull, meaningful communication.

[Dark Mind]

Back to Bio's observation - What is the intent behind the usge? Also, "civilized people" (and I use the term loosly) are considered to be civilized largely because of their self control in varrious areas - not the least of which is speach. Any idiot can cuss. It takes a more mature person to confront a situation with less unbridled speach and more thoughtfull, meaningful communication.

-The intent behind the usage should be to talk, and freely.

-People are more accurately "civilized" if they are modern, not barbaristic. Self control may be a factor in civilization, but not always.

-Any idiot can talk period. Idiots can even rule the world... they do now :D.

-This is very true, but that is not the issue I'm attacking. I'm attacking the issue of whether or not you should be punished for cussing, and whether or not we should teach young people that certain *words* are bad. :)

[Fishteacher73]

The concept of "bad" words is steeped in two basic tradtions.

1) Religion- blasphemous terms regarding damnation or course use of the lord's name.

2) Bodily functions- These either break down into sexual or excetory types.

 

These are the basic taboos of western culture. Bad words are meant as shockers or as indications of extemeness. Almost a step up from the superlative. With over usage they loose the shock value and the nature that makes them the "uber-superlative". We continue to slowly integrate these terms into daly life. The newest trend seems to be along the lines of racial slurs seem to now be the new "dirty words". While these originally were quite common and not really thought of as "bad" perhaps 50 years ago, they were engulfed by the PC machine of the 80/90's. As a back lash they have become the "dirty words".

[bumab]

I know, and I think that if just one generation of kids were not taught that some words are bad and the older generations just learned to accept it until they die, bad words may become extinct. Oh, happy day :).

 

Relgiously, "bad" words are actually limited to blasephemous words, not vulgar words, although people are supposed to avoid vulgarity if it harms others. So maybe we don't need to kill off words, but change the thinking around them.

 

I believe that is what has happened in our generation.

 

Sadly, I disagree. People have historically missed the point of almost all the worlds relgions (I say religions because historically they were the source of morals). Witness the Crusades, the Inquisition, the various religious revolts in Asia, (debatably) the current state of Islamic terrorism. Etc, etc. People missing the point of right and wrong are legion.

 

Who was around when the words actually *started* and *became* "bad? "Anyone know the first person to say the "F" word? And why was it considered bad? Were the people who used it "bad", and the word became associated with them, like today's gangs and their gang signs?

 

Many words once considered vulgar are not anymore, like jazz. It used to be a relativally degrogatory term, since jazz bars were sleazy places. F--- is not considered "bad" in all cases, I've seen many behaviorally oriented scholarly papers which use f--- as a word to describe sex without the emotional connotations (animalistic). It's all in the context.

[Dark Mind]

Relgiously, "bad" words are actually limited to blasephemous words, not vulgar words, although people are supposed to avoid vulgarity if it harms others. So maybe we don't need to kill off words, but change the thinking around them.

I wasn't suggesting killing them off, I was suggesting the very same thing as at the end of your quote. :)

[Dark Mind]

The concept of "bad" words is steeped in two basic tradtions.

1) Religion- blasphemous terms regarding damnation or course use of the lord's name.

2) Bodily functions- These either break down into sexual or excetory types.

 

These are the basic taboos of western culture. Bad words are meant as shockers or as indications of extemeness. Almost a step up from the superlative. With over usage they loose the shock value and the nature that makes them the "uber-superlative". We continue to slowly integrate these terms into daly life. The newest trend seems to be along the lines of racial slurs seem to now be the new "dirty words". While these originally were quite common and not really thought of as "bad" perhaps 50 years ago, they were engulfed by the PC machine of the 80/90's. As a back lash they have become the "dirty words".

I agree completely, but I think that it should change. But I'm not counting on it any time soon :).