Ps2Huang Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I heard there are some cryogenical associations planning to make frozen corpse be back alive.Do you think it is possible biologically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleMad Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 I heard there are some cryogenical associations planning to make frozen corpse be back alive.Do you think it is possible biologically? Don't know about that, but I learned something new related to that today reading through the latest issue of Scientific American. Most of us know that our cells need oxygen continuously or they will die: this is why brain damage occurs after about 4 minutes without oxygen. However, scientists have found that if oxygen is 'truly' eliminated - anoxia, not just hypoxia - then cells of mice, nematodes, etc. can go into a state of 'suspended animation', from which they can be fully revived. So either of the two 'extemes' seem compatible with life: normoxia or anoxia, but the middle ground (hypoxia) is very destructive. It appears that when cells still have some oxygen they attempt to carry on as usual, but can't, and so are damaged and die. But when they are 'totally' deprived of oxygen the basically throttle down to a nearly inactive state that is protective. The scientists have been successful with different organisms using either carbon monoxide or H2S (hydrogen sulfide -a poison) because of their 'anti-oxygen' properties that help push past hypoxia and into anoxia. Even mammals as "high" as dogs and swine have been put into a state of suspended animation for an hour or more and then revived successfully .. I had no idea this could be done with organisms that complex! The scientists are optimistic that humans too may have a hidden system at the cellular that allows us and/or our organs to be placed into suspended animation: it could help preserve organs for transplant and potentially be used to help trauma victims make it to the ER in better condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ps2Huang Posted May 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Don't know about that, but I learned something new related to that today reading through the latest issue of Scientific American. Most of us know that our cells need oxygen continuously or they will die: this is why brain damage occurs after about 4 minutes without oxygen. However, scientists have found that if oxygen is 'truly' eliminated - anoxia, not just hypoxia - then cells of mice, nematodes, etc. can go into a state of 'suspended animation', from which they can be fully revived. So either of the two 'extemes' seem compatible with life: normoxia or anoxia, but the middle ground (hypoxia) is very destructive. It appears that when cells still have some oxygen they attempt to carry on as usual, but can't, and so are damaged and die. But when they are 'totally' deprived of oxygen the basically throttle down to a nearly inactive state that is protective. The scientists have been successful with different organisms using either carbon monoxide or H2S (hydrogen sulfide -a poison) because of their 'anti-oxygen' properties that help push past hypoxia and into anoxia. Even mammals as "high" as dogs and swine have been put into a state of suspended animation for an hour or more and then revived successfully .. I had no idea this could be done with organisms that complex! The scientists are optimistic that humans too may have a hidden system at the cellular that allows us and/or our organs to be placed into suspended animation: it could help preserve organs for transplant and potentially be used to help trauma victims make it to the ER in better condition.That is right. If we can use those formulas, we are able to survuve or being resurected.And, we can rely on nano- to provide our cells with infinitve oxygen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 I heard there are some cryogenical associations planning to make frozen corpse be back alive.Do you think it is possible biologically?The current answer to this is "no". TM's point about anoxia is true, but the feasibility of getting an entire organism anoxic before incurring damage in nil. Further, there is more to worry about than anoxia/hypoxia. We freeze cells to prevent other bad things from happening (think about anaerobes in your gut going wild). Freezing itself is damaging in all but the smallest of creatures/systems. Even in those cases, we add things to the supernatant to disrupt water crystals (glycerin, DMSO, some buffers). Water crystallizes and ruptures all kinds of microvasculature and tissue structure. Folks that have had themselves frozen are pretty much dead. But at least they look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Perhaps Wood Frogs will help us with this some day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Perhaps Wood Frogs will help us with this some day....Good one, C1ay. This would be the sort of solution that would be required- an endogenous intracellular "antifreeze". Animal size still matters, however: the larger the animal, the more difficult it is to freeze it. Also those of us that are warm blooded (which I think includes all humans except attorneys) have an even tougher time getting to freezing without dieing on the way. Frogs just generally slow down with temperature. We could start human experiments, with attorneys, however. Sort of a compromise. Some folks have suggested that use of attorneys as test subjects is better than standard white lab rats for at least three reasons: 1) There is a shortage of white rats2) People easily get attached to white rats3) There are some things you just can't make a white rat do. Attorneys have none of the above problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 My snakes are picky...They won't eat attorneys. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 We could start human experiments, with attorneys, however. Sort of a compromise.Are you suggesting that attorneys are human? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 My snakes are picky...They won't eat attorneys. ;)Well, they're poisonous, and they will sue you if you try to eat them! Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 My snakes are picky...They won't eat attorneys. ;)I think you have to like the taste of shark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Can we cut off their ears and make a fertility soup out of it?We could just dump the bodys back into the sewers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Can we cut off their ears and make a fertility soup out of it?We could just dump the bodys back into the sewers...I'd be afraid of the side effects of the hormones...would cause defects that would be fodder for law suits...Q: In stead of a coroner, who do you call when you find a dead attorneyA: The hazmat disposal teamCheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Are you suggesting that attorneys are human?Sort of, per post 6. Human but cold blooded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Q: In stead of a coroner, who do you call when you find a dead attorneyA: The hazmat disposal teamQ: How can you differentiate a dead attorney in the road from a dead oppossum?A: Skid marks in front of the oppossum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleMad Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Further, there is more to worry about than anoxia/hypoxia. We freeze cells to prevent other bad things from happening (think about anaerobes in your gut going wild). Going wild? And ..... giving you gas for a short while? During suspended animation tissues remain intact. In fact, scientists demonstrated that tissues are more resistant to damage when an organism is in suspended animation than when it is not. So, the normal epithelial lining of the GI tract would prevent the gut bacteria from spreading outside of the alimentary canal. And without the normal continued supply of incoming nutrients (one doesn't ingest food when in suspended animation), I would imagine that the confined gut bacteria populations would quickly level off, or die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 ..So, the normal epithelial lining of the GI tract would prevent the gut bacteria from spreading outside of the alimentary canal. And without the normal continued supply of incoming nutrients (one doesn't ingest food when in suspended animation), I would imagine that the confined gut bacteria populations would quickly level off, or die off.The epithelial linkng would be inactive if it was suspended. The anaerobes would have plenty of food- The human. Think about gangrene from the inside out. The anaerobes could digest just about everything except your bones, and would only die when they got to the air. And if you didn't get all of the oxygen out, lot of bugs would have a field day. Strep would probably erupt into necrotizing faciitis. E Coli would probably ascend the ureters and cause pyelonephritis. I still bet the gut bacteria would get you first. But you would pretty much end up as a set of bones in a pile of pungent goo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleMad Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Biochemist: … (think about anaerobes in your gut going wild). Telemad: During suspended animation tissues remain intact. In fact, scientists demonstrated that tissues are more resistant to damage when an organism is in suspended animation than when it is not. So, the normal epithelial lining of the GI tract would prevent the gut bacteria from spreading outside of the alimentary canal. And without the normal continued supply of incoming nutrients (one doesn't ingest food when in suspended animation), I would imagine that the confined gut bacteria populations would quickly level off, or die off. Biochemist: The epithelial linkng would be inactive if it was suspended. Care to support that? Since the rest of your whole reply depends completely on that unsupported assertion of yours, your whole counter is invalid until you do. Biochemist: But you would pretty much end up as a set of bones in a pile of pungent goo. So are you asserting that a hibernating bear ends up as a set of bones in a pile of pungent goo? Care to support such a position? Or maybe you are asserting that the epithelial lining of a hibernating bear's GI tract continues to function whereas a human's, if put into a similar physiological state, wouldn't. Care to support such a position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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