Why do humans use oppression(Homosexual marrage)?

[Biochemist]

EVERY homosexual that I know (and that is a reasonable number) has attempeted suicied at least once because of the atmosphere of peer/family/school life.

This is tragic, FsT- I didn't have any idea this was so common. I only have about a handful of reasonably close gay friends, but I am unaware of any historical suicide attempts. Is this incidence reported in the literature?

....To say that the current heterosexual-superior culture is not detrimental to those that have alternate lifestyles is a massive understatement.

I understand the point and am shocked by the situation you surfaced, but I would not jump to the conclusion that the heterosexual culture is the causality for this.

... I think that is a bit absurd to assume that they {gay parents} would turn their family into a "fairy farm".

I suspect this is unlikely as well. I have only had significant exposure to one (lovable) little boy being raised by gay parents, and he was prety well balanced. I think family stablility matters more than sexual orientation. This little boy's parents were pretty positive, stable guys.

[BEAKER]

What lifestyle?

The obvious.

Slightly, yes. It was my intention to be provocative. I have known of parents that kicked their teenaged sons or daughters out of the house and refused to see them ever again, for no other reason that these had decided not to hide their homosexuality.

 

Is that right, according to your ethics?

Do I think that every heterosexual relationship is perfect? Of course not. Do I think that because every heterosexual relationship is not perfect, then that mandates that I should teach my children that it just might be better to be a homosexual? No. I try to help my children understand that it's their responsibility to work at their relationships, even at a young age, and that it's ok to dissagree. Thats what I'm doing now.

 

At what level should we establish an action as something that should be given to children for their experimentation? on Ripley's believe it or not, there are people who climb into tubs with rattlesnakes. Should I get a tub and fill it with rattlesnakes and put my five year old into it to see if he might like that lifestyle? - What if more people were doing it?

[pgrmdave]

It is unfair to compare homosexuality to pedophilia because what people object to in both cases is different. Pedophilia is wrong because a child is not fully capable of making decisions like that, and while we may try to claim that they are on intellectual grounds, we all know that they are not. There is no nine year old who can fully understand the emotional and physical ramifications of sex. Beyond that, pedophiles seduce the child, or force the child. It cannot be consensual. Homosexuality is more comparable to interracial relationships. For many people it is uncomfortable to see an interracial couple, and they think that it is wrong. As for whether or not a homosexual couple adopting a child would make it much more likely for that child to be homosexual, it is probably likely that will occur with a similar rate as heterosexual couples raise heterosexual children with a few big exceptions. Our biology is set up more for heterosexuality, and our culture is set up more for heterosexuality.

[Fishteacher73]

This is tragic, FsT- I didn't have any idea this was so common. I only have about a handful of reasonably close gay friends, but I am unaware of any historical suicide attempts. Is this incidence reported in the literature?...I understand the point and am shocked by the situation you surfaced, but I would not jump to the conclusion that the heterosexual culture is the causality for this.I suspect this is unlikely as well.

 

My persosonal experience seems to be a bit higher than research indicates, but:

 

Suicidality in homosexuals, particularly among adolescents and young adults have been consistently reported to be higher over the past 25 years . In a recent overview, it has been concluded that gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people which may comprise up to 30% of completed youth suicides annually.

 

[quote name=Homosexuality and Suicide: A Case Report

 

Lut Tamam, MD, Nurgül Özpoyraz, MD, Rasim S. Diler, MD.]An important factor in the suicide attempt of this patient might be his traditionally oriented family structure especially the role of his father in this structure . During adolescence and young adulthood, homosexual individuals are almost totally raised in heterosexually oriented , traditional families. And many are exposed to parents, siblings who are overtly homophobic as in our case. So it is nearly impossible to avoid the direct effect of homophobias (sexual prejudice) of the parents (in this case the father) on mental state and emotional stability of gay youth. In addition to immediate effects of homosexual prejudice, chronic traumas resulting from homophobic acts of family members and others may also influence psychological adjustment of the gay youth later in life.

 

Perhaps not heterosexual culture as itself, but a) its dominance, :Alien: condemnation of homosexuality (as a general view) c) Homophobia (its hard to be homophobic and not hetro.)

[rockytriton]

re:

 

Originally Posted by Homosexuality and Suicide: A Case Report

 

Maybe this has something to do with natural selection???

[Fishteacher73]

They do not need to be removed from the gene pool. They already have. Besides, to insinuate this would mean that you felt there was a biological component to homosexuality.

[rockytriton]

Isn't there a biological component to everything about a person? I mean, if I like cheese, there is probably some biological reason for it.

[BEAKER]

.

In a recent overview, it has been concluded that gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people which may comprise up to 30% of completed youth suicides annually.

This would seem to be a good reason to steer children away from this lifestye.

Homophobia (its hard to be homophobic and not hetro.)

It is equally hard to be heterophobic and not homo.:Alien:

[bumab]

They do not need to be removed from the gene pool. They already have. Besides, to insinuate this would mean that you felt there was a biological component to homosexuality.

 

There most likely is a biological component. I remember reading about various "gay genes" in bees and other animals. I wouldn't be surprised if genetics proves to play a reasonably large role.

 

But before everyone gets all excited, that doesn't excuse homosexuality on moral grounds. Genetic tendancy has been linked to various sociopathic behaviors. While I'm not comparing the two, I think most would agree sociopathic behaviors are wrong, genetic influence or not. The moral argument still stands, genetic tendancy or not.

 

Personally, homosexuality is one of the biggest things I struggle with in my religous beliefs. Most likely the only reason it's persued with such passion by religious groups is it's "so easy not to be guilty of." It's easy to preach about a sin you are not taking part in at all, it's much more difficult to preach about the dangers of loving money, for example. Reading most religions, homosexuality is not placed as a worse activity then greed, lying, or speeding in a school zone. It's just another way people veer of the purpose we were given life and a purpose for. The virulence with which many religious groups has attacked homosexuality, and yet virtually ignore greed, avarice, political corruption, etc etc has done nothing to help the cause, that's for sure.

 

So should gay couples be allowed to adopt children? I don't think they would make any worse parents then a couple who thinks lying on their tax forms is ok, or thinks speeding is ok. The real reason (i think) many have a problem with it is by allowing homosexuals to adopt children is seen as condoning the behavior, not because they would be bad parents.

[Fishteacher73]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishteacher73

In a recent overview, it has been concluded that gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people which may comprise up to 30% of completed youth suicides annually.

This would seem to be a good reason to steer children away from this lifestye.

 

Perhaps you should try reading my post. Your answer just further confirms the reasoning why so many young homosexuals are suicidal..

 

It is equally hard to be heterophobic and not homo.

 

I really do not know of any gays that hang out and decide to go straight bashing. Lets beat the breader to death that came into the gay bar. It is common and not socially "incorrect" to be derogatory toward homosexuals. It is seen on blatantly on the media. Homophobia is not really considered bad by many. They're just fags anyways. What does it matter?

[Biochemist]

It is unfair to compare homosexuality to pedophilia because what people object to in both cases is different. Pedophilia is wrong because a child is not fully capable of making decisions like that, and while we may try to claim that they are on intellectual grounds, we all know that they are not. There is no nine year old who can fully understand the emotional and physical ramifications of sex.

I appreciate the point, PgD. I (obviously, I hope) was not advocating pedophilia. I was merely suggesting that the criteria that anyone uses to establish propriety in sexual behavior is intrinsically idiosyncratic. I certainly agree that adolescents cannot make reasoned decisions about sexual behavior. I am not all that confident that my older children (18 and 21) can either. I don't think I was particuilarly good at making sexual behavior decisions at their ages. My two older children are thoughtful, educated, kind people, but sexuality is (I think) quite complicated.

 

I frankly don't really understand homosexual behavior any more than I understand pedophilia. I think that the evidence of biological support for homosexual behavior is weak. I think we look at that data, weak as it is, and use it to support a politically correct argument in favor of "equal" rights.

 

In spite of the nearly-universal public pressure to treat gays as "normal", I do not think of them that way. I think these are people that are stressed by specific proclivities, just like I am. I do not hold gay folk's behaviors against them. I am perfectly comfortable approving of people while I disapprove of their behaviors. It certainly applies to my children, and I think it applies to my view of myself as well.

[Fishteacher73]

There most likely is a biological component. I remember reading about various "gay genes" in bees and other animals. I wouldn't be surprised if genetics proves to play a reasonably large role..

 

There have been studies that if nothing else illustrate a biological basis for homosexuality. Many have hypothalamus that are relatavistically more similar to those of the opposite sex. (In straight males it is larger, in straight females it is smaller).

 

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~kripston/homosexuality/Biological.html

[Fishteacher73]

In spite of the nearly-universal public pressure to treat gays as "normal", I do not think of them that way. I think these are people that are stressed by specific proclivities, just like I am. I do not hold gay folk's behaviors against them. I am perfectly comfortable approving of people while I disapprove of their behaviors. It certainly applies to my children, and I think it applies to my view of myself as well.

 

Ones preference for, say the color blue, causes no one harm and make you happy. How logical would it be if there were laws that said only red should be used? You can go to jail if you have a blue car? Why is red legal and blue not? Someone saw it written down somewhere, so it must be true. The problem arises when someone else is imposing their preferences on you in a matter thateffects only consenting ableminded individuals.

[Biochemist]

Ones preference for, say the color blue, causes no one harm and make you happy. How logical would it be if there were laws that said only red should be used? You can go to jail if you have a blue car? Why is red legal and blue not?

FsT- I am not quite sure which point you are making here. I was discussion proclivities, not preferences. My point was that having a proclivitiy does not make it right. Something else has to be applied to the model to establish right and wrong.

... The problem arises when someone else is imposing their preferences on you in a matter thateffects only consenting ableminded individuals.

We, as a society, generally expect someone to impose behavior constraints on us in many instances. The constrained behaviors are either dangerous (for ourselves or others), "unfair" (e.g., theft) or arbitrary (e.g., federal tax policy). There is nothing intrinsically immoral about imposing a preference. I probably would try to drag you out of your burning house if presented the opportunity. If you contended that you wanted to stay and burn, I probably would still try to drag you out. Most folks would agree that my decision to drag you out of a burning house against your will was reasonable. The question really is what curcumstances make it reasonable for me to contend that your opinion (at that moment) might be better overturned.

[pgrmdave]

Maybe it is simply because most of my friends are homosexual, bisexual, or partially bisexual (they would be okay with a homosexual relationship, but wouldn't seek it out), but I understand how it feels very well. Homosexuals are the same as heterosexuals, they are simply attracted, physically and emotionally, to members of their own sex. I simply cannot see how it can be considered wrong in any way. Bisexuality is often very different. Most people who are bisexual simply choose to not limit themselves to the opposite sex when it comes to falling in love. It's a simple question of accepting people as they are, seeing the beauty in both the female form and the male form. I must point out that I have never met what I would consider a true bisexual, they all lean towards one or the other side. But I still cannot see what can be considered wrong with that. Would you choose to stop love simply because it makes you uncomfortable? Or do you think that there is some higher power who thinks that it is wrong for two people to love each other simply because they are both female, or both male?

[Biochemist]

... Would you choose to stop love simply because it makes you uncomfortable? Or do you think that there is some higher power who thinks that it is wrong for two people to love each other simply because they are both female, or both male?

Let's not equate love with sex, OK? I love my kids, my dad, and a whole bunch of my friends, but somehow sex doesn't enter the picture.

[niviene]

Bisexuality is often very different. Most people who are bisexual simply choose to not limit themselves to the opposite sex when it comes to falling in love. It's a simple question of accepting people as they are, seeing the beauty in both the female form and the male form.

 

I want to comment on this quote. For a long time I considered myself bisexual because I always thought that the female body was simply beautiful to look at. I feel that I am capable of physical attraction, but once I was faced with a girl who wanted to try a real relationship with me, and found that I simply can't have an emotional relationship with a woman. I am only capable of really loving a man, I think, but I still find that I am attracted to some females. I'm not sure what that makes me, but I think it's really odd that the two things can be separated. It makes me wonder if there are homosexual people who feel the same way - that they might be able to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex but just not comfortable or attracted emotionally.