Racoon Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 God clearly doesn't love you. Or you wouldn't be stuck here on Earth trying to prove your worthiness... Ever consider that?? GAHD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well if you listen to the book apparently he is all knowing and thus created us knowing we would experience pain and suffering:shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaromine Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I thought we had 'no knowledge' of pain and the like until after Eve was a naughty girl and disobeyed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well if you listen to the book apparently he is all knowing and thus created us knowing we would experience pain and suffering:shrug: So God's Love is conditional? Provided you jump through all the hoops and do what the good clergy tell you to do?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmtreepathos Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 From all the evidence God does love humans. He gave them this beautiful earth, a pefectly pleasant mate and the opportunity to produce children in a Paradise also they had assignment to spread that paradise earthwide... so meaningful work. After providing all that he set the only condition *'don't think so much of yourselves that you take the only thing I have held back from you'.... the tree of life stood for his right to govern.*(paraphrased) He told them clearly in advance the price was dear. When they separated themselves from the source of life after all he had given he was no longer obligated to support them. Remember they were now murderers as they could only bring forth children with death in view. Willing to risk our future for the right to KNOW(determine for themselves) right and wrong. He let justice continue it's course, they sided with his enemy and they grasped for independance. He let them have it and they died as a result. But there is a hope for those who don't turn their backs on the evidence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 I stopped reading your post talking of God once I saw the word "evidence" PTP. :cup: FYI - there is no word of God, just words shared by those who claim to speak for this concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmtreepathos Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 there are no words against God, just words shared by those who claim to speak against this concept when I was a child I thought that a slug was money. And I was mocked and told "that is worthless/nothing". Now I know that it may not have the value of money but it still bore evidence of thought, planning, mining, smelting, pressing, handling and distribution. I accepted w/o thinking the view of someone who acted superior and told me little about it. I now know better. (it still won't buy a sucker though :cup: ) If something as low tech as a slug needs that much input how much more the complex world and ecosystem around us. As an adult I clearly see the work of intelligent design. And this design brings so much delight that I truly feel loved by the awesome designer. In fact the simplistic view of mankind and scientists in general is that "it ain't so if I can't see it". Then it comes back to haunt them 20 or 30 years later when a whole system is on the verge of collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomoSapiens Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 There are no evidence of Gods and Jesus. How we know there are ? I can't pick a side who doesn't believe them or believe them. Just because the evidence haven't been proved. Just think about science first before you would know how it formed. Maybe it wasn't God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 If something as low tech as a slug needs that much input how much more the complex world and ecosystem around us. As an adult I clearly see the work of intelligent design. And this design brings so much delight that I truly feel loved by the awesome designer.I suggest that just because you do not fully understand the complexity is no reason to jump to the conclusion that some suber uber omnipotent all powerful cloud surfer designed it. I too find immense beauty in nature. I look at the patterns, the connections, from the ocean to the forests to the stars, and find myself awe struck. I feel humbled knowing I'm a tiny piece of nothing on a tiny piece of blue world on a tiny piece of cosmic time. I love searching for knowlege and understanding, and trying to more fully connect myself with that which is natural beauty. But why waste so much effort putting all this faith into a being which is unprovable, and tends more to satisfy weak minds? Again, just because we cannot fully comprehend the awesomeness of the universe does not logically dictate that there must be a super intelligent puppet master behind it all. If you show me some evidence of an intelligent designer that is not simple poetic rhetoric or calls to a 2 thousand year old book written by humans, I will re-evaluate my stance for sure. Until then, I'll find my own mind supporting the beauty of the vastness as a wonderful collection of random events spread across billions of years... without some ethereal editor behind the curtain. :):) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaromine Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Ditto InfinateNow. And for humans ourselves, isn't there more "proof" that our 'design' is "unintelligent" ? Tailbone ? Why doesn't our spine end before this ?– we've no necessity for a tail ; though, past creatures did. Appendix ? All it does is little to nothing or pain humans. Tonsils ? Same as appendix – little to nothing or pain. And with tonsils and appendices, they both can be removed and one lives just as well or better (because of the pain from them) than when one had them. Such a waste of tissue, things that aren't needed. Not so intelligent on the 'designer's' part... DougF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 did I imply that? I didnt mean that ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaromine Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 did I imply that? I didnt mean that ;) Oh, no. Didn't even have your post in mind while typing ; was just adding to the general discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 I suggest that just because you do not fully understand the complexity is no reason to jump to the conclusion that some suber uber omnipotent all powerful cloud surfer designed it. I too find immense beauty in nature. I look at the patterns, the connections, from the ocean to the forests to the stars, and find myself awe struck. I feel humbled knowing I'm a tiny piece of nothing on a tiny piece of blue world on a tiny piece of cosmic time. I love searching for knowlege and understanding, and trying to more fully connect myself with that which is natural beauty. But why waste so much effort putting all this faith into a being which is unprovable, and tends more to satisfy weak minds? Again, just because we cannot fully comprehend the awesomeness of the universe does not logically dictate that there must be a super intelligent puppet master behind it all. If you show me some evidence of an intelligent designer that is not simple poetic rhetoric or calls to a 2 thousand year old book written by humans, I will re-evaluate my stance for sure. Until then, I'll find my own mind supporting the beauty of the vastness as a wonderful collection of random events spread across billions of years... without some ethereal editor behind the curtain. ;) Beautifully said IN , But even though your science doesn't allow you to conclusively admit God, your natural side still holds out the possibility of God.. ?? And if He/She loved you and your virtue in question, then why would your soul be sent down to Earth when the Cosmological Court already knows the outcome?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 The question “does God love me” reminds me of Descartes’s philosophical writings. As best I recall, his conclusion was short of “God loves me”, or even “God is capable of love”, but went as far as concluding that it’s useless to conclude that “God hates me”. Early in his philosophy, reasoning from the necessary existence of God per the ontological argument, Descartes considered the possibility that God purposefully made the universe and the human mind such that the former could never be understood by the latter, and concluded that, for truth-seeking beings like us, this would be the ultimate hateful cruelty. If it were the case, there would, he reasoned, be little point in contemplating science of philosophy, so, unless one chooses to give up on these things as impossible pursuits, one must assume God did not make it so, and thus doesn’t hate us. Although I never found Descartes a convincing philosopher (or the ontological argument a very useful theological argument) he had a knack for catchy ideas and aphorisms (“I think, therefore I am” being arguably his best). I rank his “God wouldn’t create a universe we can’t understand” idea high on the scale of catchiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 the tree of life stood for his right to govern The fruit of the tree conferred knowledge of good and evil, I think that's pretty well accepted. The problem is that god prohibited them from performing a certain action before they had knowledge of G+E, but without that knowledge they were unable to make any moral judgements, so they could not know that it was wrong to eat the fruit. God set this up and god punished them for the result. At best, this suggests that god is not very bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 love is god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaromine Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Interminable punishment is Hell.God is love ?– Hell is love of God ?Heaven is love of God.So Hell can only be a direct opposite... No ? We've done nothing eternal. By God's standards, we deserve eternal pain for imperfections of which we didn't know would be the result of disobeying God while we were perfect and unknowing of those imperfections (which are really only sin, which no perfect human could know of, or it makes the human imperfect, as an "example" would be current life). And those resulting imperfections only last an average 70 years. Not a bit near eternal, nor realistic for eternal-Hell–giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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