InfiniteNow Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Again, you've missed my point, as I'm attempting no such thing. Also, I suggest you watch your tone. One who is so enlightened need not attack others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Look, I just threw a rock at the window and it broke. Universe thusly effected. Ooook... First off, that example has literally nothing to do with QM, so again, go and learn about QM. but I suggest you both read up on the double-slit experiment and consider revising your statements regarding our ability to effect and influenced the observed universe. This exmaple is entirely different then the rock/window example and was your first initial example of effecting the universe and this deals with QM, whereas the other example does not. Either figure out what your trying to say and repost it or just keep playing games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I can tell you'll go far here, pheonixbird. You've got the right stuff. Cheers ole pal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 shhhh... ONG NA MO GURU DEV NA MO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 argh! I gotta go cool off and kill some people in planetside. bbiab, hopefully with that link despite being unsure of which observation/effect of the universe your trying to talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Whoa! lol This is one of the most asumptious responses I've encountered in awhile. I respect your points whole heartedly, and infact I agree with your standpoint 100% for that kind relative reasoning. Though it is not required by any means, I will share a bit about myself. I have never been inside a church. I am not religious. I do not have blind faith in any religious teaching. I am well roundedly educated in most aspects of science. It just appears you missed my point that our mind is unique relative to the universe we measure in the study of physics. My main point is that there is a sort of relative context for viewpoints held.-For example if a bear ran out of the woods and started chasing you, you might start running and all logic would go out the window and suddenly your self would be the #1 concirn in the universe for that given context What you argue is entirely agreeable in the scientific context, and I would argue the same thing you have stated However, even with this knowledge it does not effect our nature, nor should we abide by that logic as a method of living. As it does not help ones survival to consider yourself so worthless that you may aswell walk off a cliff to hurry up and get it over with, if you catch my drift, not that you were intending that we should do that. I also bring up the same arguments to counter-argue religious teaching. However I do not bring up those points by just enjoying life. (Different contexts, relative reasoning) My points were all entirely scientific related. Sorry if there was confusion. Everything related to a life forms sensory perceptions does not exist relative to the physics of the universe. Thus it seems rather unique (instead of special) that we are capable to experience life. Considering the realisation that if one atom has no self-aware mind, then likely adding more is not going to change the situation. We dont really need to get into any kind of debate here. In my view and entirely from a scientific standpoint, life forms are unique because they give the experience of the universe. If you were unconcious, say knocked out, then in my opinion that is the same experience of the universe relative to itself, blank, nothing. So for a life form to appear and create the universe in its mind by perceptions is quite remarkable. This is not that typical statement as close your eyes and the universe disapears. Surely if I close my eyes and run into a tree, the tree and I are going to collide. However obviously I am going to experience that because closing my eyes does not end by perception. If you rendered me unconcious however, then yes no longer am I going to experience, and you could put me infront of a bus, relative to my particular "SELF" (the only place there is experience) It never happened. Relative to other observering 'selves' of course the bus hit me, but thats the point, there is no observation frame other than an aware observer, the universe fundamentals have no observation frame. A faulty opinion shared by many religous people, but ok then... No, it's not that we appear as such, it's that we ARE. Your no more important in this universe then the lowly single celled bacterium. Yes, that is pretty much how significant we are in this universe. We can't affect how the universe ticks anymore then our bacteria friends can. The universe doesn't give anything. Life is a natural biproduct of natural consequence. Given the right conditions, life can, will, and has most certainly arisen elsewhere in the vast expanses of our universe. We don't give life to the universe anymore then the universe gives life to itself. It's something that just happens. Learn abit about chemistry as that is where it all starts. Yes yes *yawn*, the universe is a beautiful place. So vast and colourful and vibrant. Filled with wonderous mysteries just waiting around the next corner. Common religious mumbo jumbo. No, thing's exist outside our conscious self aware minds. They exist without us percieving them. Sounds as if your trying to beat abit of QM to death here. Learn about QM before you do so. Man, this sounds like an LSD inspired post here. If you can't begin to understand, then why not try and learn why then? Why remain ignorant as to what colours are and why they are the way they are? I can't begin to imagine why people choose ignorance over education. We didn't get to our current technological level and knowledge because thing's were frigging trippy maaaaaaan. There's nothing inherently beautiful about well... anything. You might see something as stunning, I might see the same thing's as mundane or ugly. It depends on the observer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And yet, another thing here to learn. Psychology. There is no such thing as free will. I know it's a neato burrito concept and make's people feel empowered, but let's face the truth here. Your no more free willed then a dead seal is. Heh, next your gunna say time is real too huh? The truth doesn't come from remaining ignorant. No, we are not the only one's. That's our friend egocentric arrogant human talking there. The building blocks for life do exist elsewhere in this galaxy, we've seen them floating around in space. There is no reason to believe that life hasn't developed on other planets before, or even developed before our planet first had life on it's soil. If life developed elswhere before us, then how are we so special then? God(s) of various religous beliefs specifically state that HE CREATED US ONLY. There are no other's in the bible. There is only us and special little chosen people on this planet, all created after his own image. Are you an arrogant egocentric human? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I don't think I'm following you. Still sounds like mumbo jumbo mysticism to me. The universe doesn't experience anything itself, so why bring that into play? Thus it seems rather unique (instead of special) that we are capable to experience life. Considering the realisation that if one atom has no self-aware mind, then likely adding more is not going to change the situation. But it is likely. Look at you and me and everyone here. A bunch of atoms came together to form a rudimentary biological computer that developed a seemingly intelligent species that is able to moderatly manipulate it's enviroment. Which is nothing unique at all. There's lot's of species who do the same, just not at the level of sophistication that we've been able to accomplish. Although some seem to have no problems adapting our technology and tools into their daily lives, for food gather or communicating basic needs and wants for it's own survival. The universe will continue to exist regardless of any life experiencing it or percieving it being there. It existed billions of years ago regardless of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Yep. But life invents a perception. Its invisible without life percieving it visually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Yes, without something experiencing something then experiences don't occur, but the universe doesn't go away as a result. We have no major impact on how our universe functions, not through observeration. And we can throw as many rocks around as we want, it still won't affect how the universe functions. I wouldn't be so bold as to say life invented perception. Life itself is just a group of organic molecules doing what it does naturally when given the right conditions. Perception is rather a product of life, all we're doing is sensing our enviroment to ensure survival. Even a lowly bacteria can 'percieve', preception is just sensors to sense the enviroment, our sensors are alot more advanced then a bactaria's though. Nothing immensly unique or special about it nor mysterious as to why we have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Perception is just using our various senses/sensors to sense the enviroment. Sound FearOfPhysics.com: Introduction to what sound is Sight Webvision Home Page Taste How does taste and smell work? Smell How does taste and smell work? Touch How does the sense of touch work? | Answerbag.com The explanations of the senses aren't as good as I would like them to be on these sites, but they're fine for now. All perception is made of these five senses, nothing more. All these senses developed naturally in accord with the laws of physics in this universe. None of these senses require an intelligence of any sort to 'experience' them. The universe is not invisible if sensor's don't exist to sense it. Stars will still shine light regardless of you percieving it as doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Perception is more than just sensing, but this isn't the right thread for that discussion... (Example, I perceive dreams. I alter my perception) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 lol ... No. The brain does experience a perception of sorts in dreams, but this is abit different then the perception/sensing that goes on in waking life. You could alter your perception through drug abuse if you'd like, but all your really doing is altering your brains biochemistry which just really screws up how thing's work. Your not altering perception, your altering the function of your brain and in not such a good way may I add! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hmmm, what to do with all this sensory input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 This is the 6+ planes and the 6- planes seperated for logical geometric observation. In otherwords, viewing the unvierse inside out. Each plane is viewed, frome the center, into 1d light, at 2D image, through a 2 dimensional window, AT the 3 dimensional matter. we concieve in our minds the anti planes with the non anti planes. And form a singular whole, from a mirrored parity design. This is the function of entangled particles, as they are duplicates of eachother in everyway mirrored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Um that's probably one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 arkain101, What in the hell is that thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 It's what's inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.