Queso Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 You were all misinformed. Divine truth can not be spoken. Everything you have ever learned about God from other people, Forget. The realization of God is an epiphany that sticks with you, and blooms. No one can tell you what god is. Everyone can tell you what god is. God is love. God is light. God is atomic gravitation. God is everything, nothing. No one can tell you what god isn't. Everyone can tell you what god isn't. God isn't a man. Man is a part of god.Man observes god, and sometimes visualizes God in his own image,which is absolutely elementary,and prehistoric. Only an underdeveloped human being would believe such nonsense! God is mathematics, and consciousness. God is seeing everything the way it truly is. God is allowing yourself to surrender to the mysteries balancing as the universe. This has been a friendly reminder from your digital shaman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Only an underdeveloped human being would believe such nonsense! Well said! Except it should've been the very last sentence of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Good post Orb. It is unfair to say how you view god is more correct than another. I can't see it and neither can you. The only way you can describe god is by how well you know yourself, and by that it is simply a reflection of yourself. It tends to be a thing that nothing in this reality can properly explain because it is a place that is nothing like this, and hence its elusive invisibilty. And of course humanity expresses it in many forms, reflective on what they know. Of course it is all a form of art of that "epiphany that sticks with you, and blooms". At which point it seems to me that we have worked on coming full circled and are learning to express, or experience god inwardly where it came from in the first place. By whatever force drove it from material lable of god of the past to non-material form of the inside (not the outward world) of our current era I am not sure to say, but that is where it is heading, and what I gather the message of "christ" in the bible tried to get across, to find god inwardly and that is believing. However, each time a person tries to identify it by some image or thing it is becomes the opposite method and that is mainly ego related to identify the source. To be right to feel right is exaclty what puts us here, to validate this experience by our own self. However to avoid right/wrong and to harmonize, or perform duty is to accept what you dont know, or maybe, love what is not there in a right or wrong form but is there in the fact that it is, like everything. Queso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 That was cute. Would the God described here be the God of Spinoza and Einstein? I sure like theirs a lot better than I like everyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 I kind of agree with Orb in that all belief is subjective and that no two people can have identical belief systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Gotta agree there too. No two people will or do believe the same exact thing. But if I believe magical unicorns are real, or dragons, since there's a rich mythology surrounding both creatures. Does that mean they exist? No, of course not. There's only one truth, it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. There's only one true way our universe works, and it's not built in our arrogant egocentric mythologies placing our people as something special in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Gotta agree there too. No two people will or do believe the same exact thing. But if I believe magical unicorns are real, or dragons, since there's a rich mythology surrounding both creatures. Does that mean they exist? No, of course not. There's only one truth, it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. There's only one true way our universe works, and it's not built in our arrogant egocentric mythologies placing our people as something special in the universe. Very true. What makes us so much more special than the world around us that we would deserve to transcend it? And why would we want to leave it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 My opinion is that we are very special in the universe. But respectfully that is entirely relative to the view point you decide to embrace. For example, of course we appear small in comparison to the universe when you are capable to measure and study it. Also, we do appear to have very little influence to the outcome of the observed nature of it. However, in the respect to perception, it is an amazing thing that we, give life to the universe that the universe can not give to itself directly. Yes it may be true the universe happened to make us, however in that process we developed the ability of visual perception. This perception capability paints reason and understanding upon the canvas of our conscious self-aware mind. The imagery of stars, and galaxies, lakes, animals, and all things in the universe. The only place these perceptions exist happens to be in our conscious self-aware minds. When we put ourselves in the hypothetical mind of the universe we have to choose a point of scale of which to observe from. We can go atomic, sub atmoic, or futher yet right into the possibly most basic fundamental frame the photon at which all is blank and blind, and irrelavent to the universe we happen to observe. I could not begin to understand why blue happens to be blue in our mind and our mind only when we recieve a specific energy frequency of light but it is so, let alone all the other amazing versions of colors. As we see the universe has no obvious laws related to a requirement of color, or any other human related sensory capability. Color is not a thing that you can pull out and put on your hand. It is a creation we happen to be capable to perform by means I am not even capable to describe. And so as the universe ticks on asleep as we tend to observe as a mind boggling giant machine, we sit and we create the beauty that the universe would never have if it were not for here to experience, and we have the free will to do so. Now somewhere between photons and observing a volcanoe explode, I can not help but consider relative to this viewpoint we are special, even if it is just for a little while. Afterall we are the only ones who know what it is to wait and live on a little while anyway, the universe knows not to wait and would gladly end as quickly as it began if we werent around to take a peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 arkain101: My opinion is that we are very special in the universe. But respectfully that is entirely relative to the view point you decide to embrace. A faulty opinion shared by many religous people, but ok then... For example, of course we appear small in comparison to the universe when you are capable to measure and study it. Also, we do appear to have very little influence to the outcome of the observed nature of it. No, it's not that we appear as such, it's that we ARE. Your no more important in this universe then the lowly single celled bacterium. Yes, that is pretty much how significant we are in this universe. We can't affect how the universe ticks anymore then our bacteria friends can. However, in the respect to perception, it is an amazing thing that we, give life to the universe that the universe can not give to itself directly. The universe doesn't give anything. Life is a natural biproduct of natural consequence. Given the right conditions, life can, will, and has most certainly arisen elsewhere in the vast expanses of our universe. We don't give life to the universe anymore then the universe gives life to itself. It's something that just happens. Learn abit about chemistry as that is where it all starts. Yes it may be true the universe happened to make us, however in that process we developed the ability of visual perception. Yes yes *yawn*, the universe is a beautiful place. So vast and colourful and vibrant. Filled with wonderous mysteries just waiting around the next corner. Common religious mumbo jumbo. The imagery of stars, and galaxies, lakes, animals, and all things in the universe. The only place these perceptions exist happens to be in our conscious self-aware minds. No, thing's exist outside our conscious self aware minds. They exist without us percieving them. Sounds as if your trying to beat abit of QM to death here. Learn about QM before you do so. I could not begin to understand why blue happens to be blue in our mind and our mind only when we recieve a specific energy frequency of light but it is so, let alone all the other amazing versions of colors. Man, this sounds like an LSD inspired post here. If you can't begin to understand, then why not try and learn why then? Why remain ignorant as to what colours are and why they are the way they are? I can't begin to imagine why people choose ignorance over education. We didn't get to our current technological level and knowledge because thing's were frigging trippy maaaaaaan. we sit and we create the beauty that the universe would never have if it were not for here to experience There's nothing inherently beautiful about well... anything. You might see something as stunning, I might see the same thing's as mundane or ugly. It depends on the observer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And yet, another thing here to learn. Psychology. and we have the free will to do so. There is no such thing as free will. I know it's a neato burrito concept and make's people feel empowered, but let's face the truth here. Your no more free willed then a dead seal is. Heh, next your gunna say time is real too huh? The truth doesn't come from remaining ignorant. I can not help but consider relative to this viewpoint we are special, even if it is just for a little while. Afterall we are the only ones who know what it is to wait and live on a little while anyway, the universe knows not to wait and would gladly end as quickly as it began if we werent around to take a peak. No, we are not the only one's. That's our friend egocentric arrogant human talking there. The building blocks for life do exist elsewhere in this galaxy, we've seen them floating around in space. There is no reason to believe that life hasn't developed on other planets before, or even developed before our planet first had life on it's soil. If life developed elswhere before us, then how are we so special then? God(s) of various religous beliefs specifically state that HE CREATED US ONLY. There are no other's in the bible. There is only us and special little chosen people on this planet, all created after his own image. Are you an arrogant egocentric human? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Also, we do appear to have very little influence to the outcome of the observed nature of [the universe].Yes, that is pretty much how significant we are in this universe. We can't affect how the universe ticks anymore then our bacteria friends can. I'm not sure if bacteria have been studied in this context, but I suggest you both read up on the double-slit experiment and consider revising your statements regarding our ability to effect and influenced the observed universe. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I know of the double slit experiment. I'm thinking you've misunderstood it. The observers effect has nothing to do with effecting anything through the simple act of observation. A common misunderstanding of people who don't understand enough about QM. I used to have a link to a site that explained the observers effect, but can't find it right now. But honestly, learn abit more about QM, it'll do you some good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I know of the double slit experiment. I'm thinking you've misunderstood it. The observers effect has nothing to do with effecting anything through the simple act of observation. A common misunderstanding of people who don't understand enough about QM. I used to have a link to a site that explained the observers effect, but can't find it right now. But honestly, learn abit more about QM, it'll do you some good! How about you teach me then if I'm so wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I'm looking for the site as we speak. Unfortunatly I forgot to memorize it's contents in case people didn't want to look up the information themselve's to further their own education. But as I said, I am looking for the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 here's one link... not the one that explains the observer effect in detail though. Still looking for it. Hold tight! Forgot the link... heh Quantum Physics Quackery (Skeptical Inquirer January 1997) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Okay, thanks for the link. What I do find curious, however, is your insistence that my understanding of QM was lacking, a judgement you made based on your own understanding. Yet, when I asked you to elaborate, you said you did not know enough about it to elaborate on your own and had to find a link. Curious indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 here's one link... not the one that explains the observer effect in detail though. Still looking for it. Hold tight! Forgot the link... heh Quantum Physics Quackery (Skeptical Inquirer January 1997)I've just read your article, and can tell you've missed my point. The observer defines which wave function collapses, so we do in fact effect the universe. See also Schroedinger's cat. Look, I just threw a rock at the window and it broke. Universe thusly effected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbyrd Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Your understanding of QM is most definatly lacking. Your seemingly trying to marry QM and mysticism together when the theory speaks nothing of such a thing. No, I don't have everything memorized, but that doesn't invalidate what I've learned. I'm still looking for the link which can explain it much better then I can. But being so arrogant as to thinking your misguided thoughts are true isn't going to help much. Now, you can do either on of two things, help look or wait patiently for me to hand feed you knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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