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Is The Bohr's Model Of Atoms Still Used To Analyze Emission And Absorption Of Em Energy?

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#35 rhertz



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Posted 05 May 2019 - 09:09 PM

Therefore they are only metaphors that help describe what light seems to be able to do.


So bye bye Einstein and Quantum.


Incidentally, Maxwell never "proved" that light was part of the electromagnetic spectrum, if there is even such a thing. He never "proved" that an electromagnetic spectrum exists.


What he found, on his math pages, and supported by Faraday, was a correlation between electricity and magenetism. Which does not "prove" that they are one in the same thing.  Electricity given the right conditions, enabled magnetism, and magents, under the right conditions, enable electriicity.

If Light is part of the electromagnetic specrum, (the existance of which I question) then please explain why light is not effected by a magnet, or by electricity?


Maxwells conclusions are still only his intepretation about whats going on. They are not necessarily correct.


The fact that his math failed if there was motion involved, and prompted Lorentz to develop his crazy work around, the Lorentz Transformationis, is evidence that Maxwell is simply incorrect. Applying fudges does not make things corrrect does it?


Maxwells equations are ok, giving reasonable results that mimic the observations we make, so are useful for estimating possible outcomes.


But they are not a explanation for anything.



marcopolo, I want you to know that I know that you are a troll.


The only reason by which I answer your posts is because I'm amused trying to

explain something complex in few words using alternative points of view. That is,

I write for myself and not for you, as you are irredeemable.


But as the troll you are, you're dissapointing me because you are making mistakes

that display your weakness in some areas.


Being a troll is not for anybody. It requires wide imagination, knowledge, taste for

private jokes, intelligence, coherence and NOT BEING repetitive.


The Art of Trolling is an innate quality, which requires that a person can convince

most of others about something in a given day, and come again the next day to convince

people about the exact opposite. You could learn something from one of the Master Trolls

of the XX century: Lord Keynes.


Now, back to business: You made a HUGE MISTAKE. You talked about Maxwell with utter ignorance.


For me, you can bash Einstein or Planck as long as you want. Even you can bash the overrated Newton who,

like Einstein, was a deranged psychopath, narcisist and plagiarist (Kepler, Galilei, Hookes, Huyguens, Leibnitz,...).


But, when it comes to James Clerk Maxwell, first wash your mouth and second, read the proper history from its time,

with his original works at hand and the biography written two years after his death by one of his closest friends.


Maybe, once you read Maxwell, you will understand that you are talking about the greatest genius since Aristotle.


Here are some excerpts from the original 1864 paper with which Maxwell founded the science of electromagnetism,

and also stated that light is only a part of a vast electromagnetic SPECTRUM, which contains termal radiation.

and that propagates as self-sustaining orthogonal waves of electrical and magnetic fields across the vacuum, and

suffer attenuation by the rule of the inverse square of the distance, as gravity does.


Also, he theoretically calculates the speed of light using parameters from electricity and magnetism measured by

several scientists before him, and by himself (he was a polymath and an experimental researcher also):



A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field. By J. Clerk Maxwell, F.R.S


Received October 27, -- Read December 8, 1864




(18)  I then apply the phenomena of induction and attraction of currents to the exploration of the electromagnetic field, and the laying down systems of lines of magnetic force which indicate its magnetic surfaces, cutting the lines of force at right angles.

In order to bring these results within the power of symbolical calculation, I then express them in the form of the General Equations of the Electromagnetic Field.


There are twenty of these equations in all, involving twenty variable quantities.


(20)  The general equations are next applied to the case of a magnetic disturbance propagated through a non-conducting field, and it is shown that the only disturbances which can be so propagated are those which are transverse to the direction of propagation, and that the velocity of propagation is the velocity v, found from experiments such as those of WEBER, which expresses the number of electrostatic units of electricity which are contained in one electromagnetic unit.


This velocity is so nearly that of light, that it seems we have strong reason to conclude that light itself (including radiant heat, and other radiations if any) is an electromagnetic disturbance in the form of waves propagated through the electromagnetic field according to electromagnetic laws





97)  Hence the velocity of light deduced from the experiment agrees sufficiently well with the value of v deduced from the only set of experiments we as yet possess.  The value of v was determined by measuring the electromotive force with which a condenser of know capacity was charged, and then discharging the condenser through a galvanometer, so as to measure the quantity of electricity in it in electromagnetic measureThe only use made of light in the experiment was to see the instruments.  The value of V found by M. FOUCAULT was obtained by determining the angle through which a revolving mirror turned, while the light reflected from it went and returned along a measured course.  No use whatever was made of electricity or magnetism.


The agreement of the results seems to show that light and magnetism are affections of the same substance, and that light is an electromagnetic disturbance propagated through the field according to electromagnetic laws.



(101)  The velocity of light in a medium, according to the Undulatory Theory, is


                                                                                  1/iV0 ,


where i is the index of refraction and V0 is the velocity in vacuum.  The velocity, according to the Electromagnetic Theory, is


                                                                                  (k/4π μ) ^ .5


where, by equations (49) and (71), k = 1D/k0 and k0  =  4π(V0)^2 .


Absolute values of the Electromotive and Magnetic Forces called into play in the Propagation of Light.


(108)  If the equation of propagation of light is


                                                           F = A cos 2 π (z-Vt),

the electromotive force will be

                                                           P = -A 2 π/λ V sin 2 π/λ(z-Vt);

and the energy per unit of volume will be

                                                           P^2/Sπ μV^2 ,

where P represents the greatest value of the electromotive force.  Half of this consists of magnetic and half of electric energy.

The energy passing through a unit of area is


                                                           W=P^2/8π μV ;

so that


                                                           P = (8π μVW)^.5 ,


where V is the velocity of light, and W is the energy communicated to unit of area by the light in a second.

According to POUILLET'S data as calculated by Professor W. THOMSON*, the mechanical value of direct sunlight at the Earth is

                        83.4 foot pounds per second per square foot.

This gives the maximum value of P in direct sunlight at the Earth's distance from the Sun,

                                                           P = 60,000,000 ,

or about 600 DANIELL'S cells per metre,

At the Sun's surface the value of P would be about

                                                           13,000 DANIELL'S cells per metre.

At the Earth the maximum magnetic force would be .193.

At the Sun it would be 4.13

These electromotive and magnetic forces must be conceived to be reversed twice in every vibration of light;  that is, more than a thousand million million times a second.


Personal Note: Here Maxwell is stablishing that the frequency of visible light is in the TeraHertz range, which is correct.




This theory was experimentally proven by Hertz, 20 years after, by using tuned RLC circuits at 50 Mhz and a dipole antenna (he didn't

know what a dipole was, but Hertz was a genius also, so he created it. He also discovered the photoelectric effect 15 years before

von Lenard (1902),


Only 40 years after Maxwell's theory on electromagnetism, the first applications were tried by Tesla, Marconi and others. 16 more years

were needed until the development of commercial radio-broadcasting (KDKA station at Pittsburgh, in the evening of Nov. 2, 1920).


Then, the modern world exploded (thanks to Maxwell (and Tesla)).


This is enough FOR ME.




If you want to troll about something older than this, and used frequently, I suggest some topics:


1) What is HEAT? Really, really, what is it?

2) Why Kinetic Energy was settled as KE = 1/2 mv2, instead of mv2?

3) Why two similar concepts of physics: P = mv and KE = 1/2 mv2,  were allowed to coexist?

4) Why was allowed that concepts of absolute zero temperature at (-273°C) existed 70 years

    before the generalized proof of existance of atoms, and later molecules (1911, Rutherford)?

5) Why the concept of infinitesimals and convergence to limits was allowed as the foundational

    mechanism of differential calculus and the concept of infinity was allowed as foundational

    for the development of integral calculus?

6) Who gave mathematical form F=ma to the second law of Newton? ORIGINAL "Law II: The alteration

    of motion is ever proportional to the motive force impress'd; and is made in the direction of

    the right line in which that force is impress'd."

7) Who changed Kelvin's Conjecture: "It is impossible to convert the heat from a single source

    into work without any other effect." into the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and introduced

    the irreversibility of entropy? Why is the new definition still valid?



I can give you more examples, so you troll about it over here or another physics forum.

#36 OceanBreeze



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Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:08 AM

marcopolo, I want you to know that I know that you are a troll.





You are not the only one who has made that observation; and an arrogant troll as well.



 can give you more examples, so you troll about it over here or another physics forum.




Preferably some other forum; we are getting a little tired of him here.

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#37 Flummoxed



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Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:44 AM



Einstein was right, ''a theory should be no more complicated than it has to be.''


My memory is Andromeda is blue shifted I got the approach rate wrong, that is a minor point, but it was not the point I was trying to make.


The reason I was trying to discuss the red and blue shift of galaxies is that it had dawned on my powerful intellect that rhertz doesn't think the universe is expanding, and doesn't believe CBR is anything to do with any hot big bang, and does not believe wave particle duality explanations.


Arguably red shift could be explained via tired light, but not blue shifted galaxies, which demolish the concept of tired light.


By discussing relativistic effects on a photon/quantum fluctuation moving through space, I was thinking perhaps, I could avoid discussing planck and frequency of photons and focus on another way of proving red and blue shift are due to galaxies moving away from and towards us.


In the beginning there was light  the HUP therefore photons were created by interactions between virtual particles, and unstable particles decaying to produce radiation and stable particles. ie spontaneous emission of photons from the vacuum of space was not caused by god, it is caused by virtual particle interactions.  :sherlock: