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Do You Think We Are Alone In The Milky Way?


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#18 Amplituhedron

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 12:08 PM

Simple life arose early on earth after it cooled, some 3.8 billion to 4 billion years ago. However, it took some three billion years for prokaryotes to evolve to eukaryotes, the basis for all complex life, including us, of course. This strongly suggests (though of course does not prove) that it will be staggeringly unlikely for life on any planet to be much more than very simple. Eukaryote evolution may have been an astounding fluke accident.

 

To put it into further perspective, even after eukaryotes evolved, it took further hundreds of millions of years for proto-humans to evolve. Had a meteor not wiped out the dinosaurs, there would be no humans. It is unknown whether some species of dinosaur could have evolved to human-style intelligence, but I think it highly unlikely. After all, we’re the only species that ever lived that evolved the capacity to send radio signals into outer space.

 

More perspective: if you compressed the entire history of the earth into a single calendar year, with earth forming on Jan. 1, then modern humans made their first appearance at about one-tenth of one second to midnight on the last day of the year, Dec. 31. 

 

Just considering human history by itself, the vast majority of our time was spent as hunter-gatherers, without even a concept of settled communities or agriculture. This notwithstanding the fact that humans of 200,000 years ago were just as intelligent as we are.

 

Radio only first appeared less than 150 years ago! 

 

This strikes me as good evidence for the extreme unlikelihood, in the Milky Way, of other radio-signal-sending, spacefaring aliens apart from us. The odds against such entities seem far too great, judging by the evidence we have here on earth. There is also the issue of time. Maybe such beings existed 200 million years ago and then perished; maybe we will perish and some other species somewhere will achieve what we did 200 million years from now. Any civilizations, if they exist at all, must be separated not just by vast gulfs of space but of time as well.

 

There is also the problem of mutual intelligibility. Even if somewhere in the Milky Way there is a species with comparable cognitive abilities to our own, they may well be so different from us, and we from them, that we would not even recognize each other. It is often said that math would be a universal language, a Rosetta’s stone that would facilitate mutual communication even among radically different species, but there are good reasons to think this is false.



#19 sanctus

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:39 AM

It would be pointless to make a one way trip to Alpha Centauri if no one is home.  Even if such an achievement was possible then we still run afoul of some principal issues:

  1. Is there intelligent life?
  2. Does that life communicate by means of the electromagnetic spectrum?
  3. Is that intelligent life monitoring our area of space?
  4. Would that intelligent life recognize our signals as communication or confuse it with natural phenomena?

If the technology was available and there was an unlimited amount of money to spend on such a folly, who would volunteer for such a mission?  We have enough trouble sending interplanetary missions to our neighbors

Light-sails are not for transporting humans. Or anything at all.
To your issues:
1) Does it matter? I do not agree that it is pointless, both the creation of such light-sails or the images sent back or the technology needed for sending a signal etc are all yielding potentially huge leaps in science.
2) Again does it matter? Again, finding other life is a big thing in itself, if we have to find new ways of comunication so be it
3) Maybe yes, maybe no.
4) Maybe not but again does it matter, we would still know we are not alone.


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#20 VictorMedvil

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:42 AM

Light-sails are not for transporting humans. Or anything at all.
To your issues:
1) Does it matter? I do not agree that it is pointless, both the creation of such light-sails or the images sent back or the technology needed for sending a signal etc are all yielding potentially huge leaps in science.
2) Again does it matter? Again, finding other life is a big thing in itself, if we have to find new ways of comunication so be it
3) Maybe yes, maybe no.
4) Maybe not but again does it matter, we would still know we are not alone.

 

I think it is a wonderful idea sanctus to send probes to all the stars in the sky, probes aren't that expensive and can be run by A.I. why would you not send a probe to all the stars within 100 ly just to get a better understanding of what our galactic neighborhood is like and explore for life along with to see what other exoplanets are like. To see the other Stars Exoplanets should be reason enough maybe we will find a planet that is earth like.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 08 April 2019 - 02:44 AM.


#21 fahrquad

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:07 AM

We have already sent probes to the stars.  Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyager 1 and 2 supposedly are in interstellar space heading for 4 different stars...eventually.  No warp drives available when they were launched.  <_<

 

https://space.stacke...timately-headed

 

ADD:  They will be dead long before they arrive.  As a matter of fact, I think Voyager 2 is the only one still transmitting.


Edited by fahrquad, 08 April 2019 - 05:12 AM.


#22 fahrquad

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:09 AM

I think it is a wonderful idea sanctus to send probes to all the stars in the sky, probes aren't that expensive and can be run by A.I. why would you not send a probe to all the stars within 100 ly just to get a better understanding of what our galactic neighborhood is like and explore for life along with to see what other exoplanets are like. To see the other Stars Exoplanets should be reason enough maybe we will find a planet that is earth like.

 

A short answer, no power supply.  A nuclear power source will eventually decay, solar panels can't run on starlight, and we don't make extension cords that long.



#23 VictorMedvil

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:10 AM

We have already sent probe to the stars.  Pioneer 10 and 11 and Voyager 1 and 2 supposedly are in interstellar space heading for 4 different stars...eventually.  No warp drives available when they were launched.  <_<

 

https://space.stacke...timately-headed

 

I demand Jump Drives immediately If I had built them they would have used a Wormhole.



#24 fahrquad

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:16 AM

I demand Jump Drives immediately If I had built them they would have used a Wormhole.

 

No conveniently located wormholes have been found yet in our neck of the woods.  Sorry.  :Little:



#25 VictorMedvil

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:24 AM

No conveniently located wormholes have been found yet in our neck of the woods.  Sorry.  :Little:

 

Thats it Fahrquad, I am building Warp Gates.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 08 April 2019 - 05:24 AM.


#26 fahrquad

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 08:53 AM

Did you mean Whorf or Gates?  :innocent:  Yeah, Star Truck was on earlier.  Futurama is on now.

 

Warp Gates seem to be a popular subject in the gaming world.

 

https://www.google.c...-d&q=Warp Gates


Edited by fahrquad, 08 April 2019 - 08:56 AM.


#27 Dubbelosix

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 09:00 AM

Most likely not 100% true anymore, with light_sails and if Aplha Centauri has life,  a one way trip is expected to take 20 years. So if there was life there, one could comunicate with them with one msg every 20 years :-)

Just was at a lecture from Avi Loeb (google him), that is where I got this info from. And check this https://breakthrough...rg/initiative/3

 

A very good point. There are a few other local ones as well, which could span up to a single lifetime to reach.

 

Related to it, if we have been visited by an alien race, as some jokingly have mentioned, then it is likely they come from Alpha Centuri due to its close proximity. I predicted we would one day find a planet there that could host life. I was ridiculed at that time because there were no such planets that had been detected.

 

A few years later, they did find a planet, locked in the habitable zone. So who knows?



#28 VictorMedvil

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 02:04 AM

It seems it is already happening, Link = https://www.space.co...spacecraft.html and https://www.jpl.nasa...hp?feature=7374

 

 

your-wish-is-my-command-2-left-and-you-c


Edited by VictorMedvil, 11 April 2019 - 09:43 PM.


#29 sanctus

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 04:24 AM

A short answer, no power supply.  A nuclear power source will eventually decay, solar panels can't run on starlight, and we don't make extension cords that long.

You did not read the link I posted... https://breakthrough...rg/initiative/3
Look for starshot.

The craft needs no power on board, it is a light-sail powered by a laser from earth. So yes, a 1-way trip but which can send info back.
 



#30 fahrquad

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:19 PM

A very good point. There are a few other local ones as well, which could span up to a single lifetime to reach.

 

Related to it, if we have been visited by an alien race, as some jokingly have mentioned, then it is likely they come from Alpha Centuri due to its close proximity. I predicted we would one day find a planet there that could host life. I was ridiculed at that time because there were no such planets that had been detected.

 

A few years later, they did find a planet, locked in the habitable zone. So who knows?

 

Actually, I think you are referring to Proxima B orbiting Proxima Centauri which is a red dwarf loosely associated with the binary pair of Alpha Centauri.

 

https://www.space.co...tar-system.html


Edited by fahrquad, 10 April 2019 - 04:24 PM.