8 replies to this topic

[Alpine]

Hello World. One of the most fascinating (and ironic) things I come across on daily basis are conversations related to imperfections in the current systems. The system could be the government, education system all around the world or in a certain locality or just the way people behave, the term is ambiguous. We all have different ideas about how a particular system should work but more often than not, our ideas are subjective and are controlled by human tendencies.

Be that as it may, I came up with this little thread to know how YOU would construct a Utopia. There are no rules and guidelines on what you can and cannot do, in short, you are playing in God-mode.
So, you are given a country, Utopia, and you are in total control. You have to decide how everything will work, what kind of political and government system this country will have, the education system, punishment for crimes, the major and minor religions,military,etc.

Discuss away.

[phillip1882]

Wow tough call. let's start off with the most important thing, currency.
first, the currency should be based on a deflationary model, that is less and less currency gets produced every 10 years.
the government is the primary issuer of the universal currency, but local communities and banks can form their own currencies if they so desire. i imagine currency working something like bitcoin. every person is assigned a privite key that only they know, and a public key that they can share with others. with the public key you can deposit currency, with the private key you can withdraw money stored. currency should be linked the amount of electic power being produced.
so, when you withdraw, you're basically buying electricity.
then taxes.
i imagine five teirs of taxation,
lowest- no taxes
low-mid - 3%
mid - 5%
up-mid - 7%
high - 10%
these taxes pay for the bare essintails, sewage, roads, water, police, liabraries, courts, and power plants.
then if popular demand is high enough, you can vote for partional taxes.
for example if you want public schools, and 33% of people or more want it, then an additional tax amount of the amount tax you pay *proportion voting% goes toward construction of buildings and hiring of teachers.
that is high would now pay .1*1.33 = 13.3% taxation. up-mid would pay 0.07*1.33 = 0.0931 = 9.31%
and so on.
a vote on what taxes should be spent on, and if any new taxes should be established gets voted on every 2 years. taxes should never exceed 33%.
then religion.
i would ecourage freedom of religion, but make christainty the standard.
here would be the way i would set up some tough topical issues.
abortion - leagal up to one month. if abort a baby after that time 1 year sentance.
marriage - if government issued - classified as civil union, if church issued, classified as marrage. only differance, if issued by the state a small fee is extracted for keeping it on record.
minimum wage - based on the amount of currency issued in the year. say .0001%
handguns - legal to own and carry, as long as you know how to use properly, and keep it conceled unless you need it. doesnt require a permit but does require test.
machine guns - illeagal for citizens, only military can carry.
business- citizens are free to buy and sell goods and services directly form their home without permit, as long as they pay a proportion of what they earn to the government.
jury selection - random, and judges have the duty to inform citizens that they cna cast a null-vote if they belive the law is unconstutional.
search and seisure - it is illeagal for police to search vehicles or homes without a warrant issued from a judge, or suffeceint cause to belive someone is in danger. when searching a vehicle, police should ask if they have a hand gun, if so, must surrender it during examination.
marajauna - leagal as long as it's for medicanal use and can prove that with a doctor perscription.

[ErlyRisa]

In a Utopia (My ONE)

 

-don't we all just have sex all day?

 

ie - everything is made in a manner that needs no attention, and food (the necessity) is abundant

 

we are pretty much there anyway (robots do the work)

[SaxonViolence]

Phillip 1882...

 

Machine Guns Illegal? Why?

 

This shows that you haven't read and understood Colonel Jeff Cooper.

 

Technically "Machine Gun" means a belt fed, crew served, tripod mounted weapon in a full-powered rifle cartridge.

 

As The Good Colonel said over and over again, a "Machine Pistol"—as he used the term, any carbine in a pistol caliber—is heavier, bulkier, burns beaucoup more ammunition and makes a good deal of racket...

 

But is no more effective than a Pistol in the same caliber. 

 

"Eighteen rounds of .45 in the torso from a Thompson won't make him any deader than two rounds from  1911a1 and actually take longer to deliver."

 

Cooper also said, "Hand-Held Auto-Fire is generally a drag."

 

By which he meant relatively ineffective.

 

People who "Spray" find that even with many foes there is much more empty air that sprayed rounds can disappear into without effect than enemy torsos that can be randomly hit.

 

But that presupposes that people shouldn't be allowed really awesome weapons—I don't agree so arguments about efficacy are pointless.

 

I will say that men live via their Weapons and outlawing things like Sawed-Off Shotguns, Automatic Weapons, Switchblade Knives, etc.—Warps and Distorts a man's Psyche as much as the old Chinese Foot-Binding Warped Women's feet.

 

********************

 

Utopia?

 

If I had one wish to ask the magic Genie—I'd wish that all restrictions on Weapons were permanently removed and the very concept could no longer Exist in the Human mind.

 

{That would prevent a subsequent wisher from unwishing my wish...}

 

And I'd be selling plasma to save up enough money for a Czech Skorpion and a Roadwarrior 12 Gauge.

 

{Disabled me—like about $950/month net...}

 

But aside from that:

 

As Robert Ringer once observed (paraphrased)...

 

"One Dude's idea of 'Peace' is to enjoy his 10 000 Acre ranch without let or hindrance while another Dude's idea of 'Peace' is to forcibly appropriate the first Dude's 10 000 Acre ranch, cut it up into 100 Acre Plots and distribute the parcels to those he feels are worthy.

 

"As long as people have such disparate ideas as to what constitutes 'Peace' lack of hostility is highly unlikely."

 

I assume that "Peace" is a requisite to "Utopia'.

 

Since Utopia is a Phantasy anyway—a true Utopia would have a never-ending Frontier where Recalcitrant folk could load up and move to and do things their own way.

 

"Space" certainly doesn't fit the bill. It is almost certain that emigration to Space will never make even the most minor inroad into the Earth's population and the folks selected will almost certainly be buttoned-down, professional, obedient and have what Tom Wolfe called, "The Right Stuff".

 

I had an idea for a SF/Phantasy story that I may write one day...

 

But in our near future "Alternate Universes" _{{Which in this sense are almost certainly a Phantasy—or at most an Urban Legend—but never mind—the concept is well defined in Fiction...}} are discovered—the vast majority largely images of our Earth say 1000 or 2000 years ago—same continents, flora and fauna, even generally having mineral deposits in the same place...

 

But 999 out of every 1000 without man.

 

And moving from one World to the other turns out to be dirt cheap.

 

It would kinda be like Cyberpunk meets "Silverado"—there would be many modern devices—particularly hand held ones—but a lot of the day to day life would be almost Amish or old West...

 

And the Frontier never ends. 

 

Mankind continues to expand geometrically into an infinite number of parallel worlds forever.

 

But imagine Recalcitrant and Trucelent folk who are always on the cutting edge of the advancing horde and their ancestors have also been in the vanguard for thousands of years.

 

That would be a UTOPIA!

 

 

Saxon Violence

 

 

[Eclogite]

 

I will say that men live via their Weapons and outlawing things like Sawed-Off Shotguns, Automatic Weapons, Switchblade Knives, etc.—Warps and Distorts a man's Psyche as much as the old Chinese Foot-Binding Warped Women's feet.

I am a man. My weapons are intellect, reasoned argument, wit, knowledge, wisdom and a disarming smile. I've never felt a need to compensate for some inadequacy by bolstering my ego with devices designed to kill. Perhaps when senility sets in I shall view things differently.

 

 

 

Utopia?

 

If I had one wish to ask the magic Genie—I'd wish that all restrictions on Weapons were permanently removed and the very concept could no longer Exist in the Human mind.

You don't think that wishing that any need for weapons should be permanently removed from the human condition would be a better wish?

 

 

 

Since Utopia is a Phantasy anyway—a true Utopia would have a never-ending Frontier where Recalcitrant folk could load up and move to and do things their own way.

Herbert Spencer has a lot to answer for. It was he who coined the phrase survival of the fittest to summarise aspects of Darwin's theory. Unfortunately that has contributed to the perception that evolution is wholly about competition and quite ignores the central role played by cooperation. You seem to be Spencerian in your oulook. Does it create feelings of insecurity?

 

 

But imagine Recalcitrant and Trucelent folk who are always on the cutting edge of the advancing horde and their ancestors have also been in the vanguard for thousands of years.

 

That would be a UTOPIA!

Forgive me, but I have this mental image of you starting at the sound of a car backfiring.

[ErlyRisa]

Since Utopia is a Phantasy anyway—a true Utopia would have a never-ending Frontier where Recalcitrant folk could load up and move to and do things their own way.
 
"Space" certainly doesn't fit the bill. It is almost certain that emigration to Space will never make even the most minor inroad into the Earth's population and the folks selected will almost certainly be buttoned-down, professional, obedient and have what Tom Wolfe called, "The Right Stuff".
 
I had an idea for a SF/Phantasy story that I may write one day...
 
But in our near future "Alternate Universes" _{{Which in this sense are almost certainly a Phantasy—or at most an Urban Legend—but never mind—the concept is well defined in Fiction...}} are discovered—the vast majority largely images of our Earth say 1000 or 2000 years ago—same continents, flora and fauna, even generally having mineral deposits in the same place...
 
But 999 out of every 1000 without man.
 
And moving from one World to the other turns out to be dirt cheap.
 
It would kinda be like Cyberpunk meets "Silverado"—there would be many modern devices—particularly hand held ones—but a lot of the day to day life would be almost Amish or old West...
 
And the Frontier never ends. 
 
Mankind continues to expand geometrically into an infinite number of parallel worlds forever.
 
But imagine Recalcitrant and Trucelent folk who are always on the cutting edge of the advancing horde and their ancestors have also been in the vanguard for thousands of years.
 
That would be a UTOPIA!

 
 
WOW: perfect!

Edited by sanctus, 12 June 2014 - 06:47 AM.
added quotes

[Racoon]

No Utopia will ever exist when there is the dicotomy of Man between the forces of Good and Evil.

 

And whether you you think the fallacy of Religon and the ensuing belief of Good and Evil is not some super-natural occurance, it is still a reality in the minds of most  Humans.. (thats called Ego and Id)

 

Its been talked about, written about for Centuries, and it's not going away with modern science proving that Heaven and Hell don't really exist in any physical cosmic matter.

 

People have an inner-psyche that compels them. Which leads to religion.

 

Basically its an Inner-Struggle within our own minds to accept that which we cannot. For whatever reason or Upbringing.

 

Some people make it, and many do not.

[ErlyRisa]

 

No Utopia will ever exist when there is the dicotomy of Man between the forces of Good and Evil.
 
And whether you you think the fallacy of Religon and the ensuing belief of Good and Evil is not some super-natural occurance, it is still a reality in the minds of most  Humans.. (thats called Ego and Id)
 
Its been talked about, written about for Centuries, and it's not going away with modern science proving that Heaven and Hell don't really exist in any physical cosmic matter.
 
People have an inner-psyche that compels them. Which leads to religion.
 
Basically its an Inner-Struggle within our own minds to accept that which we cannot. For whatever reason or Upbringing.
 
Some people make it, and many do not.

 

Make it where?

[Ahmabeliever]

Cynicism cynicism. "We stopped dreaming" - Neil deGrasse Tyson.

So we rejuvenate the dream, refund NASA and head for the stars. Here, on a planet similar to our own, we find Utopia, many many Utopia's. Blank canvasses for artists with which to create.

First, the most important thing - people. People need food, water, clothing and shelter. They also require community, love, purpose, certainty, and uncertainty. These can be adressed by giving each member a role as we pioneer this new world. Uncertainty is a given, the project unites all in a common bond - community and purpose. Love should be a given, babies die without it. Together using permaculture principles one autonomous community unit is built. It supplies its own energy, food, water, clothing shelter and some excess - sustainably, The excess is for expansion, and insurance to help yourselves or other units after hardship eg crop failure/storm events. Part of the excess goes to R&D - for the betterment of society and it's members, never for a few at the expense of others. As populations increase more units are built. Connected socially, but no trade of goods a community is capable of producing itself unless crop failures occur. Keeping people busy (enough) gives them purpose - outsourcing labor is a mistake for any society (good for greed though). 

Everyone's opinion is valid. Decisions come from the bottom up, not top down. Change is slow, decisions affecting all are never made lightly or with insufficient research, except where things must be done to preserve life. Common sense will be found in our species more and more if we lose all the influences like corporates/media/religious shills. 

Corporations exist for the purpose of advancing and producing advanced technologies and goods. Their income is redistributed towards further R&D and back into society. Everyone has the income to fully participate in society.