automatic existence Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 (If the post has a tl:dr characteristic you can really just reply to the title.) Even though I have 12 years of public education, I don’t know much about math. We don’t learn to understand mathematics anyway, but rather to perform certain tasks without context or practical application in sight. Since I`m very interested in the humanities, my approach to science and math is more theoretical than practical. Which is to say; not only do I want to learn math, but also its cultural history. Who discovered what and why was it discovered at that time. What was its area of application? I have bought Mathematics for the Non-mathematician http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Nonmathematician-Dover-Explaining-Science/dp/0486248232 to take care of the historical and cultural part. What I really need help with is the practical part. Where do I begin if I want to start at the absolute bottom and work my way up to become fairly decent in regards to math. And I know this isn’t done in a week. I am planning to take some classes in collage, but I want to start now. Hopefully math may provide an entrance for me to understand physics too some time. All in all you probably know what I am asking about better than I do so lets hear them answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Where do I begin if I want to start at the absolute bottom and work my way up to become fairly decent in regards to math.I’m unable to recommend a course of text-book study – like a lot of people, my own experience has been a largely haphazard series of whatever texts my teachers preferred, and I’ve not tried to find an “ideal” course. However, IMHO, the “absolute bottom” of Math is the idea of formal systems and proof. For an introduction to that, I recommend the popular book “Gödel, Escher, Bach”. It’s possible to study this fairly long, dense book selectively, focusing only on the math elements, though its an enjoyable enough that many people are unable resist reading it cover-to-cover. The approach I suggest is slightly unusual – it’s customary to learn Math through the “hands on” study of algebra, calculus, set theory, and so on, studying “big picture” ideas only after you have lots of experience using them without fully understanding why. For some people, starting with the big picture is a better approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallenrm Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I would recommend Prelude to Mathematics by W W Sawyer, a real classic. It is available as a Pelican paperback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatic existence Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I really appreciate the tips so far. I will definitely check out the two recommended books, Especially Gödel, Escher, Bach since I have heard a lot of praise for it elsewhere too. That said though, I don’t think I will learn math just by reading. And I definitely won’t learn much math by doing the tasks in the math book I currently have for my classes. They are either much too easy or I feel like they are far to irrelevant. A lot of them are really ridiculous. It is the same type of exercises we did three years ago, with regards to difficulty. So what I need might actually be more in the direction of the “hands on” study of algebra, calculus, set theory[/Quote] approach. But then again, where do I begin? If my math teacher wasn’t completely useless (and that’s giving him too much credit) I’d ask him. But with that out of the question I really have no idea where to turn. And I feel at pretty stupid having to ask at all. But the case is that everyone I know want to learn as little math as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hm...ask at the university, perhaps. Maybe you can even find a tutor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatic existence Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I would if I could. I still go to high school or whatever you go to before you go on to collage or university. What I meant by saying: ”I will take some math classes” is that I will do so when I start at a university sometime next year. I`we talked with the counslers at my present school, and they’re either baffled that anyone would bother to go beyond the required curriculum or they are to busy to be bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallenrm Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 That said though, I don’t think I will learn math just by reading. And I definitely won’t learn much math by doing the tasks in the math book I currently have for my classes. They are either much too easy or I feel like they are far to irrelevant. A lot of them are really ridiculous. That's indeed the crux of the matter, One learns very little by just reading; to learn one has to learn the art of reflecting. Take small bites and chew them for a while; just like the cows, sure, in no time you will start experiencing the nourishment of knowledgae!!! :) Keep at it; my best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 What I really need help with is the practical part. Where do I begin if I want to start at the absolute bottom and work my way up to become fairly decent in regards to math. And I know this isn’t done in a week. ... All in all you probably know what I am asking about better than I do so lets hear them answers! A: I suggest you have a go at Katabataks here at Hypography, if for no other reason than to discount its application to your criteria. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 What I meant by saying: ”I will take some math classes” is that I will do so when I start at a university sometime next year.You’re prospects are promising, then. A university Math department is the ideal environment in which to learn math. Having been both a student and a faculty member, I can offer some advice about maximizing your college experience: understand that academic departments are small sub-societies. Instructors consciously and unconsciously distinguish between students who are “just passing through” and ones that have a deep interest in their subjects, and focus their attention on the latter, so know your faculty, and be known to them. Be clear you’re not “sucking up” for a grade – this is an immediate “turn off” – but realize that individual instructors have individual interests that may not completely coincide with the classes they teach. Knowing what each faculty member most likes to teach is valuable knowledge when trying to learn Math well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallenrm Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 ....know your faculty, and be known to them. Be clear you’re not “sucking up” for a grade – this is an immediate “turn off” – but realize that individual instructors have individual interests that may not completely coincide with the classes they teach. Knowing what each faculty member most likes to teach is valuable knowledge That's indeed an astute observation about the characters of instructors! :D :D :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 There are two key resources online that I recommend. MathWorld, the most complete mathematical reference you could ever need and MIT OpenCourseWare, an open publication of MIT course materials for self learners. Math courses are available with complete lectures and problem sets. Registration is not even required. There is also the Wikibooks site that is part of the Wikipedia project. It has a Math Bookshelf full of open source textbooks from basic math on up through advanced mathematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatic existence Posted October 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Thanks a lot for the websites Clay1 (especially MathWorld). I have looked for something like that in my own language but never found any. A: I suggest you have a go at Katabataks here at Hypography, if for no other reason than to discount its application to your criteria.[/Quote]I... I think I will wait just a little longer before I touch that. Instructors consciously and unconsciously distinguish between students who are “just passing through” and ones that have a deep interest in their subjects, and focus their attention on the latter, so know your faculty, and be known to them. Be clear you’re not “sucking up” for a grade – this is an immediate “turn off” – but realize that individual instructors have individual interests that may not completely coincide with the classes they teach.[/Quote]Luckily I have already been acquainted with this at my present school, and it is really beneficial to know, both when it comes to grades and getting a good relationship with the teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamarama Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Dear A. Existence, I've come to appreciate mathematics later in life and admire your early interest in the field. A desire to learn is probably the best start you can have. While trying to come to grips with Lagrange interpolations I stumbled across this site: http://www.cut-the-knot.org . I've only investigated a small piece of it but it seems to have lots of interactive applets to play with. By the way, you're not French are you? The French seem to have a particularly strong tradition in mathematics. Good Luck! Stam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 A: I suggest you have a go at Katabataks here at Hypography, if for no other reason than to discount its application to your criteria. I... I think I will wait just a little longer before I touch that. I... I think I will jump right in to ask about the basis for your polite yet cryptic reply. To whit, what is the basis for your polite yet cryptic reply? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 The online Euclid is nice: http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/toc.html Also, this book might be suitable (I haven't read it myself): Amazon.com: Journey through Genius: The Great Theorems of Mathematics: Books: William Dunham http://www.amazon.com/Journey-through-Genius-Theorems-Mathematics/dp/014014739X/ref=pd_sim_b_5/104-2024254-1423949 Turtle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatic existence Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 By the way, you're not French are you? The French seem to have a particularly strong tradition in mathematics.[/Quote]Ha-ha, no I am not French. I am from Europe though, actually the same country as your noble Host (Tormod). I... I think I will jump right in to ask about the basis for your polite yet cryptic reply. To whit, what is the basis for your polite yet cryptic reply?[/Quote]The cryptisism was a subtle attempt at explaining "to advanced for me" without risking humiliation. If I am supposed to follow that post without trouble, let’s just say I might be lacking more math skills than I thought. I might look further into it, though. I'm sorry to rip this thread up again, I just don’t like to have unanswered questions in my posts. Turtle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 The cryptisism was a subtle attempt at explaining "to advanced for me" without risking humiliation. If I am supposed to follow that post without trouble, let’s just say I might be lacking more math skills than I thought. I might look further into it, though. I'm sorry to rip this thread up again, I just don’t like to have unanswered questions in my posts.No worries mate. :doh: I didn't want to suggest a reason and so put words in your mouth. The Katabatak thread has become rather long, but if you start at the beginning I think (hope?:eek_big: ) you will find it begins from the simplest of math concepts. :) That certainly is my intention, so if that is not the case it is my humility, not your, that prevails. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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