Global Dimming

[InfiniteNow]

I wonder if all the world's black roads were painted white, would this reflect enough sunlight to make a difference either-way?

I imagine some. Isn't this called albumen or something? :smart:

 

 

I wonder if every floor, of every ofiice-block, of every city, were packed with indoor plants would this effect CO2 levels or reduce the mini-particles floating in the air?

And roofs and everything with outdoor plants too... What if we put some sort of requirement in place where by vehicles (jets included!) have a vegetation filter between the engine and the exhaust?

 

Maybe peat land vegetation, but then we'd have more methane... Anyway, we could then have a filter replacement of the vegetation with each petroleum refill. Just like chaning an air or oil filter, but on the exhaust end. And the filter is vegetation which helps scrub the carbon.

 

"At Sonny's Quick'n'Full, we've got the peat to assist in carbon defeat. Also, with each fillup, get a free wheat grass juice..."

 

Has this been discussed somewhere? Would it fail immediately? Have merit?

 

Fire away. :hihi:

[pgrmdave]

Isn't this called albumen or something?

 

Albedo, I believe. (If I remember my SimEarth correctly).

[InfiniteNow]

Albedo, I believe. (If I remember my SimEarth correctly).

Yep... hit the nail on the head. Thanks. Was having a senior moment. :D

[Michaelangelica]

I imagine some. Isn't this called albumen or something? :)

 

And roofs and everything with outdoor plants too...

Lots of plants are needed everywhere

 

What if we put some sort of requirement in place where by vehicles (jets included!) have a vegetation filter between the engine and the exhaust?

 

Maybe peat land vegetation, but then we'd have more methane... Anyway, we could then have a filter replacement of the vegetation with each petroleum refill. Just like chaning an air or oil filter, but on the exhaust end. And the filter is vegetation which helps scrub the carbon.

 

"At Sonny's Quick'n'Full, we've got the peat to assist in carbon defeat. Also, with each fillup, get a free wheat grass juice..."

 

Has this been discussed somewhere? Would it fail immediately? Have merit?

 

Fire away. ;)

 

How would a plant filter work?

How can vegetation scrub air?

Would activated carbon help?

 

Just started a new thread

"D.I.Y Planet Cooling

Want to post above there?

http://hypography.com/forums/earth-science/8290-d-i-y-planet-cooling.html?highlight=D.I.Y+global+cooling

[InfiniteNow]

Just started a new thread

"D.I.Y Planet Cooling

Want to post above there?

Feel free to transport through copy/paste if you want. In all honesty, I have absolutely no idea. I could find out more if I did some research, but was just throwing an idea out there to see what the ripples looked like. :doh:

 

 

Cheers. :esmoking:

[Valhalla]

In my studies I've learned of several factors affecting the amount of energy from the sun reaching the surface of the earth, affecting the temperature, so I figured I'd try and think of them here.

 

1. The solar constant - if you imagine a flat disc shape above the earth's atmosphere 1m squared, and you measure the amount of electromagnetic radiation energy from the sun hitting the disc, this gives an initial indication of how much heat is coming towards the earth.

 

2. The curvature of the earth - because the earth is a sphere, the energy from the sun is spread over a wider area than a disc (mentioned above) so that the energy from the sun for 1m squared on the earth's actual surface is less than the solar constant (about a quarter of the value).

 

3. Axial tilt of the earth - because the earth's axis is tilted 23.4 degrees, we have seasons and in the northern hemisphere summer the sun will be more overhead, focusing more of it's energy over a smaller area, (so it is warmer) compared to the winter where the sun is lower on the horizon and the energy is spread over a wider area, (so it is cooler.)

 

4. Latitude - because a cylindrical beam of solar radiation covers more of the Earth's surface at higher latitudes (near the poles), the incoming energy is spread out (and it is cooler there) But a beam of solar radiation covers less of the Earth's surface at lower latitudes (near the equator) because the incoming energy (the beams) are more direct, so it is warmer there.

 

5. Absorption of solar radiation in the atmosphere - Gases in the atmosphere, aerosols and dust particles can absorb the energy, meaning less energy reaches the surface and it does not heat up as much.

 

6. Scattering of solar radiation in the atmosphere - the atmosphere can also scatter or reflect solar radiation back into space. (The scattering effect is what causes blue skies.) - this means that less energy reaches the surface, or is diverted from hitting one spot, so the surface of the Earth does not heat up as much. Clouds can also reflect or scatter solar energy.

 

7. Surface Albedo - the reflectivity of the Earth's surface. If there is a highly reflective surface, the energy from the sun is bounced back (high albedo), and the surface is cooler. If the surface is darker, and rougher, the solar radiation is absorbed more, and it is hotter.

 

These are all the factors I can think of which affect how much energy reaches the Earth's surface, which affects heat. But I haven't mentioned greenhouse gases keeping heat in, which is another factor - and more about restricting heat -loss- than the rest of it, which is about how much heat is -gained- in the first place. I might have missed others points, but my main point is that global warming is dependant on more than one factor, some change in a short space of time and others don't. Global dimming by contrails could well be a factor, I think.

 

I think I did see the tv show about contrails causing global cooling, and it's something new to me, and definately interesting.

[Michaelangelica]

In my studies I've learned of several factors affecting the amount of energy from the sun reaching the surface of the earth, affecting the temperature, so I figured I'd try and think of them here.

 

7. Surface Albedo - the reflectivity of the Earth's surface. If there is a highly reflective surface, the energy from the sun is bounced back (high albedo), and the surface is cooler. If the surface is darker, and rougher, the solar radiation is absorbed more, and it is hotter.

Please see "D.I Y Planet Cooling" thread

http://hypography.com/forums/earth-science/8290-d-i-y-planet-cooling.html?highlight=D.I.+Y+Planet

What difference would it make to global temperatures if all black roads in the world were white (Say made from cement, not tar, or even painted white somehow).

Is it possible to do the math?

 

If cities were seriously "greened' with roof-top and massive internal gardens in skyscrapers, would this make a difference?

[Valhalla]

I reckon that roads being white would have little effect on global temperatures, because they do not cover a blanket area. If all the buildings in cities were painted white, as well as the roads, then it likely would have a noticable effect on the temperature of the Earth's surface, because you have larger areas reflecting the solar radiation. I think that making roads and buildings dark in colour could probably be contributing to global warming - or could do in the future as cities expand and swallow up more of the country-side.

 

Quantifying the effect of surface albedo on global temperatures is hard to do, as I understand it, so I don't think it's clear whether changes in albedo caused by humans so far have had an effect. But bare in mind that the ice-caps are retreating, so we are darkening the land with our cities, and by melting the ice, which will only warm the planet up faster, in my opinion.

 

Any greenery, or planting of trees I think is a good thing, they remove CO2 from the atmosphere. I think protesting against cutting down trees un-neccesarily and planting a couple of trees for every one cut down is something that people can do that'll help.

[Autopoeisis]

The one thing that painting roads white, buildings white, and greenroofs are going to do is reduce the heat island effect in cities which is good anyways. I'm not sure about the global warming part and whether it will make significant impact.

 

Now regarding the global dimming documentary I think that the predictions at the end were a bit dismal. They were saying we need to make 90% reductions in our carbon footprint by 2035 or we could pass the tipping point. That is a change from the 80-90% perscription by 2050 which has seemingly become the norm.

 

Now the consideration I have is while there have been reductions in pollutants in developed countries they have been growing in the developing world, I am curious whether that is significant enough of a shift to offset reductions in Europe and North America. I mean some of the most polluted cities on earth are in China. In addition while that two percent mark is clear in relation to contrails from airplanes, flights are the largest growing source of GHGs (and thus contrails equally) of any sector. That trend I feel is unlikely to reverse any time soon, air travel in Europe with deregulation, and discount airlines hase expanded massively.

 

They also made mention at the end of methane hydrate deposit leaks, but the last academic paper I read on the subject said that it was extremely unlikely because it would require a significant shift in water temperatures which was much slower to occur.

 

So are the people making projections with global dimming considering these changes, I'm sure they are brilliant people and must be. Lets hope they are not because the scenario looks pretty dismal.

[Michaelangelica]

According to Tim Flannery the difference in heat and reflection and temperature between the poles and the tropics generates most of our weather.

So what serious reflection in mid latitudes would do who knows? Then again there are an awful lot of black roads and highways out there that weren't there 50 years ago

 

Surely a few indoor plants in our cities would help?

The local "Mall' = shopping center (in Oz speak) has huge, life-like-sized palm trees throughout the massive structure.

Why?

What a terrible con!

Not only do these ersatz trees not help the planet, the indoor environment etc they would cost heaps of plastic=petro chemicals to produce.

My Plastic Plant Terrorist Group is looking better every day.

 

I think Flannery says in his book says that 20% of carbon emissions since the industrial revolution have happened in the past 10(?) years. A frightening statistic.

 

Methane levels have been going down for the last ten years.

This has everyone puzzled.

It may be a result of swamps, billabongs etc drying out.

 

I am told that house prices along the coast of Florida have dropped by as much as $300,000, due to the fear of hurricanes and the soaring Insurance costs (If you can get insurance.)

[TheBigDog]

The roads seem extensive, but they are so small relative to the total surface area as to be mathematically and statistically insignificant.

 

Bill

[Autopoeisis]

The methane declines might be associated with reduced plant life on earth. Destruction of rainforest areas in particular might be the culprit. There was a recent paper in Scientific American I am linking it below about plants emitting methane. I am not particularly sure about the volume of methane we are talking about but methane has a substantially higher global warming potential than CO2. It was a big surprise to people in academics and it may be a bit of a bummer for those people that think that planting trees is going to offset out carbon impacts. I am not allowed to spam so can't post links. But just google scientific american plants emitting methane and the article should come up.

[Michaelangelica]

The roads seem extensive, but they are so small relative to the total surface area as to be mathematically and statistically insignificant.

 

Bill

do you think so?

Anyway we could make the mathematicians I have annoyed here, work out the sums?

 

Methane

We still have farting (or is it burping?) cows. A major source of methane. This helps boost NZ's greenhouse gass emissions from the agricultural sector to 40% (30% in Oz)

 

We still landfill of waste decomposing anaerobically (more methane)

[Turtle]

Methane

We still have farting (or is it burping?) cows. A major source of methane. This helps boost NZ's greenhouse gass emissions from the agricultural sector to 40% (30% in Oz)

 

We still landfill of waste decomposing anaerobically (more methane)

 

I hear that the melting permafrost ringing the Northern Hemisphere is releasing a lot of methane. :hihi:

 

This topped a search of 'permafrost releasing methane' >> BlueClimate: Permafrost Releasing Methane Faster Than Previously Believed

[Michaelangelica]

I hear that the melting permafrost ringing the Northern Hemisphere is releasing a lot of methane. :hihi:

 

This topped a search of 'permafrost releasing methane' >> BlueClimate: Permafrost Releasing Methane Faster Than Previously Believed

Yes, but despite all this Methane levels are going down.

This is an enigma.

Autopoeisis

This is the link you mentioned thanks

http://www.pages.pomona.edu/~cjt04747/Chem106PS/Scientific%20American%20Feb%202007.pdf

This is a scary statistic fr4om that article

one kilogram of

methane warms the earth 23 times more

than a kilogram of carbon dioxide does.

(tell a few jokes in "Quality (sic) Jokes and Humor" to get your posts up or have a look at the quirky watercooler forum)

[DougF]

Michaelangelica

 

Then again there are an awful lot of black roads and highways out there that weren't there 50 years ago[/Quote]

and they are smoking HOT just try walking across a parking lot at noon like today it's 83 deg and I bet it's 95+ deg in the middle of that p-lot

 

My Plastic Plant Terrorist Group is looking better every day.[/Quote]

count me in' date=' what time and where?

 

I am told that house prices along the coast of Florida have dropped by as much as $300' date='000, due to the fear of hurricanes and the soaring Insurance costs (If you can get insurance.)[/Quote']

this is true but the housing market has drooped quite a bit too because they (big bro) is trying to change the tax structure in Florida also.

 

property in Florida, US housing market - Money Week

The US housing market has fallen on hard times. Mortgage rates have been driven up by 17 interest-rate hikes in a row, while overdevelopment means there are more properties than buyers on estate agents’ books. Investment bank Goldman Sachs recently went so far as to predict that “nominal US home prices may be headed for an outright decline in 2007”. The bad news for British property investors is that Florida, the US state most popular with UK holiday-home owners, looks likely to be one of the regions that suffers most.

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in the past five years, the median house price in the state has risen by 104%.

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The turmoil in the rental market means the housing market in Florida is looking to be among the least healthy in the US. The Florida Association of Realtors reported in July that sales of existing single-family homes and condos have seen double-digit falls every month for the past six months.

<-->

Mike Shedlock of investment letter Whiskey & Gunpowder reckons that “there is ten years worth of supply coming on the market at current sales rates. Prices will drop, and in ten years, there will be new condos still coming on at reduced prices… by the time rents catch up with carrying costs – if they ever do – those condos may be worth 50% less than they are today.”

 

The current state of the property market means that potential investors should be patient for some time yet – the bottom of the market is still a long way off.

 

 

 

:doh::doh::doh: If it get any worse here I'll be living in a cardboard condo. :lol:

(and i didn't even mention Flood Insurance ):)

Oh well I'ts a realy nice day I think I'll go plant a tree.

[HomoSapiens]

Global dimming is another false misinformation like Global Warming. These two cases are compared to same thing. The world is getting brighter and brighter because we build cities, industry flares and automobile lights including others.

 

I don't see any proof of dimming. I do not believe in two cases including global warming. Credibility why we are talking about global dimming? Look at the atmopshere, its too thin to cover the entire planet. Co2 isn't thick. We are close to the sun, we aren't dim as like Pluto and Neptune does. Thats where is like a street lamp. Here on earth isn't a street lamp, of course it will be at night excluding the major city lights. Daytime is alot brighter, i say 500,000 times brighter than the street lamp.

 

Incredibley i am going to laugh at politican jokes and great make up stories on these based cases.