Dabo Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 You seem to be a learned bunch... Every few years I chase a rabbit... JFK assasination, Chappaquidik, "Silent Coup".. sort of stuff... A number of years ago, I got on the UFO/sighting/abduction wagon, and read everthing I could get my hands on... not just the paper back sensationalism, but government stuff too, mostly from reliable, professionals. I have several personal contacts in the usaf, nas, ... and several close friends/relatives who have had serious experiences. I don't talk to hardly anybody I know about this stuff, because they think I'm wack... I've lost one good friend over it. Nevertheless, I have my opinions, and they are not based on drunk rednecks... Most of you have read seriously credible evidence... I won't go into it, except to say that I got far enough into it that it scared me, and I kinda stopped looking into it.... Again, I'm not talking tabloid stuff, but serious, documented occurences, from sightings to abductions and all the scary stuff associated with them... Not drunkards, but contributers to society, who have nothing to gain, and everything to lose with their reports...Anyway, that's what's up with me on this issue....Right now, I'm believing it big time.... Just wondering what Y'all might think... I have no problem with dissenters... I just know what I believe.... Looking forward to hearing y'all's ideas... thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 You will find no fear of facts here. Your post would be greatly helped by letting us be pursuaded by the same compelling information that has convinced you. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabo Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I was afraid somebody might say that... I will get my chit together, and try to do that.... I didn't think posting up would be this much work! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Welcome aboard Dabo! Very compelling first real post. S' funny how ignorant people can be. I think its great that you are serious about this. Just don't isolate facts from drunken rednecks.Cuz' from what I know about this site, is that it's full of Drunken Rednecks WITH Facts!! :angel: Keep marching on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Dabo, while you are digging up your data, I will give you my two cents on the topic of aliens. I believe that anyplace in the universe that can support life, does support life. But that higher intelligent life forms are at least a bit more rare. Planets may have them, but because of the unstable nature of the universe, the existence of any specific life form will rarely be long enough to attain the intelligence and technology required to escape the perils faced by unintelligent species. Now those that have survived the perils of single planetary life now face the daunting task of interplanetary travel. I am making an assumption at this point that they do not possess the ability to travel at speeds greater than light. So in the process of extended space travel they would not have a recent view of any planet that they chose to visit prior to leaving to explore it. In fact from the time a planet is observed remotely until the time it could be visited would be a hundred years or more - VERY conservatively. Now you have a choice to make. You are looking for a planet. What is your purpose? Research? Settlement? Raw materials? It is undoubtedly a huge investment for any culture to initiate interplanetary travel. So you need to make this choice very carefully. Let us assume research. What have we done with every single space exploration prior to going personally? We send probes. Making remote observations of earth 100 years ago there would be no reason to believe that there was any higher life on the planet, so there would be no reason to send a stealthy probe. But lets assume that the need to protect your investment from the unknown is extreme, so you send a stealthy probe that can do whatever research you require, and protect itself from whatever intelligent or unintelligent things that it may encounter. But this assumes that the research can take hundreds of years, and it is just pure research. Let us assume raw materials. If that is the case then the visitation cannot be hidden. Mining a planet for raw materials is going too have tell-tale signs. Taking amounts too small to notice would not be worth the cost of the trip. Settlement is the third logical option. If you were going to settle a planet, and had the capability for interplanetary travel, you would either be confident in your ability to dominate as needed any life forms you may find on the planet, or you would be careful to choose a planet without any life forms capable of resisting you. No need to be stealthy when you can do anything you want. The other scenario that I like to muse about is what I like to call the "Earth Experiment" option. In this option the earth is a laboratory of highly intelligent beings. They observe for thousands of years at a time. And occasionally clear the slate by tripping natural events that allow them to engineer new life forms and then give them adequate time to evolve, all in the name of science. So if there are alien visitors, what is their purpose? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drip Curl Magic Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 My father recently told me that he heard somewhere that there is a doctor who removed what was thought to be a "probe" left over from an alien abduction. And it's supposedly made of a material unknown to anyone here on earth. What's even more weird.... is that when it was inside the patient... it was transmitting weird frequencies. When the doctor removed it, the frequencies stopped. I'm not sure where this information came from- so I have no idea how plausable the resource is.... but it's interesting to pretend to believe in it.:hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabo Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Wow...First; Dog; you've spent some time on the issue... Good points.Coon; Like you said; ...funny how igganant people can be.... but in ALL things, we muse keep an open mind and EXAMINE the evidence.... Anyway, here's a bit of what I've discovered, and I'm thinkin' most of your are aware of all of it, nevertheless... Robert Lazar; claims to have worked on reverse engineering (or whatever they call it) on an alien craft at area 51. Talks a good bit about gravity propulsion, which could explain a lot about ufo behavior. BUT he has been attacked and attemptedly debunked, but who knows what's true. If his stories are legit, it explains a lot. But there are folks out there wickedly trying (or tried or did) to debunk his accounts. If he's legit, that makes sense... I don't know... I read a book (among MANY others) called Alien Contact; Top Secret UFO Files Revealed... by Timothy Good. His name is well know in UFO circles. If you can get your hands on this book, it is REPLETE with WELL documented accounts, from cattle surgeries in the midwest, to abductions and implants and abortions (or harvests) by aliens. I could be mixing books in my memory, but I don't think so. Includes government documentation of such. Where I got scared was where I was reading about women with abduction experiences finding themselves pregnant, and later.... not pregnant, and visa versa. Implants..... bla bla bla I could go on and on... I've seen some serious stuff (I thing serious), documentaries and the like, about these issues. I've watched dozens of (alleged) hypnotisms of abductees, and am fairly convinced that SOMETHING is going on with these folks, beyond delusions or schytzophrenic behavior... I can't recommend Alien Contect more strongly. The appendix and refereces are replete with Fed. Govmt. documents and letters, and interviews with ranking military folks. My Uncle and Aunt had an experience where they had a UFO follow them CLOSE in their car in west Georgia, and my aunt doesn't like to talk about it. It scared the livin' chit out of her. The craft followed them closely for a number of miles as they ran at 90+ mph. This was in about '67. Before the hype... Anyway, these are a few reasons for my belief... Too many folks with too much to lose are talking about fantastic experiences with sightings and abductions. I honestly don't know what to think, but I'm leaning heavily toward believing much of what I've seen and read. Now; since I'm not an evolutionist, not believing that complex man developed via random motion of molecules against the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and believing that such development is equally unlikely in other places in the universe, MY theory coinsides with others, that so called aliens (who are described as humanoid) are humans from the distant future who have discovered time travel, and UFOs are time machines and different looking aliens and UFOs are from different times in the future..... KRAZY, huh???? That's my best guess....:hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I'm recommending that this thread be moved to The Strange Claims Forum. I sincerely hope this does not offend anyone, this is only done as a matter of policy. Unless someone can provide credible evidence that aliens truly exist, this topic cannot remain in the space forum. Even though I have personally had experiences unexplained, proper scientific investigation needs verifiable evidence..............Infy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 … What is your purpose?…Let us assume raw materials. If that is the case then the visitation cannot be hidden. Mining a planet for raw materials is going too have tell-tale signs. Taking amounts too small to notice would not be worth the cost of the trip.True, if the visiting miners are so energy-rich that they think little of the cost of a mining operation at the bottom of a planet-size, atmosphere-clogged gravity well. If the miners are closer to us in technology, they may be so daunted by the challenge that they prefer the easy pickings of lesser bodies such as Kuiper objects, which, recent computer models estimate, have a composition and combined mass similar to the Earth. If this is the case, how certain can we be that we would be able to detect such an operation? The Kuiper belt is vast, far away, and back-lit by stars of many spectra. I’d not be astonished, or in a hurry to revise the predictive simulations, if continued observation and exploration of the Kuiper belt reveal less mass, or even relics of such an operation. On a grim note, another solar system mining approach not too far from our own technological grasp is to divert a comet or very elliptical-orbit asteroid into a collision with an inner planet, then mine the ejected debris cloud. That would be hard for us to miss, even if it had happened in ancient times. If ET miners fond of this technique do show up, we can at present only hope they’re observant and have a reverence for life, or prefer the other inner planets to Earth for technical reasons. That, or that a good science fiction movie plot can be made real in a hurry! PS: I can’t claim credit for the first of these ideas – I grasped the possibility that such a visitation might occur without human notice from the reprint of a 1979 short story by Greg Benford. The doomsday idea is my own. :hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I'm recommending that this thread be moved to The Strange Claims Forum. I sincerely hope this does not offend anyone, this is only done as a matter of policy. Unless someone can provide credible evidence that aliens truly exist, this topic cannot remain in the space forum. Even though I have personally had experiences unexplained, proper scientific investigation needs verifiable evidence..............InfyI have no issue with such a move. The topics discussed here are speculative at best. The presentation of incontravertible evidence would be weighty enough to bring it back to SPACE, only if the visiting aliens prove to be from space themselves. In scenarios of time travelers they are in fact not alien at all, but rather our forefathers or decendants come to visit. That would not belong in SPACE. I am eager to see Dabo's outlay of compelling evidence. I think it is an uphill battle, but I am eager to see the attempt at the ascent. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Now; since I'm not an evolutionist, not believing that complex man developed via random motion of molecules against the 2nd law of thermodynamics,Neither does anyone else who has even the most rudimentary knowledge of biological evolution. It is obviously not against the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and it's not a totally random process, unless you're seriously suggesting that natural selection is random. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Moved to Strange claims. Citations from books by a well known UFO proponent do not constitute scientific evidence. Please come up with credible criticism by his works and show why the criticism is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabo Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Like I said, get your hands on the bood, Alien Contact, by Timothy Good. It's replete with the best evidence I've ever seen. Also, I've seen interviews with folks who were PRESENT at Roswell when they recovered and transported bodies of aliens. This has been well documented as well, but has been deep sixed by the government to the point that nobody talks about it. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want to... but we KNOW how the government can cover up whatever they want to... Also, I don't care where the thread is moved to.... wherever you want is fine with me.... no offense taken...:hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I recommend Communion: A True Story http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380703882, by Whitley Strieber. Strieber is a competent, experienced writer. Although the book is an account of his own and his family members’ dream-like, disturbing experiences, he draws no conclusion as to whether their experience, or those of the many fellow “abductees” he subsequently encountered were physically real, or have a psychological. He manages to maintain this skepticism without assuming the condescending tone all too many skeptics fall into, because, having had “abduction” experience himself, he understands that, to the “abducted”, the experience is real. Although the 1989 movie made of it was reasonably faithful to the book (unsurprisingly, as Strieber wrote the screenplay), I don’t recommend it, since one of the books greatest strengths – is level-headedness and skepticism – doesn’t translate well to video. My own experience in this area consists in the main of having been the “scientific advisor” to a “UFO research” organization formed several years ago in the Washington DC metro area. It was an odd role, as nearly all my “advice” consisted of providing general background in classical mechanics (eg: “what is force?” “what is energy?”) and modern physics (eg: “what is Special Relativity”, “what is a ‘quantum leap’?”) to very non-technical people, and explaining to them, often on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis, that nearly all of their carefully gathered UFOlogy books and monographs were packed with pseudo-scientific fast-talk by people who were not, thought they frequently claimed to be, respected members of the mainstream scientific community. Ruling out obvious falsehoods (eg: propulsion using magnetic fields can accelerate massive vehicles to relative velocities greater than the speed of light) has an curious effect on a UFO research group – it turns discussion toward stranger hypotheses (eg: many world interpretations of quantum physics, manipulation of fundamental physical constants) that can’t be easily ruled out, because they can’t be easily understood. It also encourages independent thinking, as people realize that the opinions of many alleged experts in the field should not be accepted unskeptically. A lot of UFO enthusiasts are very nice people working though very nasty personal issues and experiences. Although I share few of their beliefs, I would no more engage them in an all-or-nothing debate of the objective reality of these beliefs than I would attack the historical accuracy of the beliefs of a deeply religious person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabo Posted February 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I read Streiber's book several years ago. Very interesting... creepy! And by the way, concerning evolution, no natural selection doesn't take place until there is a gene pool. If you know about DNA replication, the question is, if DNA needs certain specific proteins to unzip and replicate, and the "recipes" for those specific proteins are IN the DNA, which came first, the chicken or the egg?? Paradoxical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabo Posted February 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 I am anxious to see what some of you guys think of this video footage, taken from a helicopter in Japan, of a UFO. You can just see it on the left, to the right of the hirise, then it SHOOTS to the right, then, buzzes the chopper, turning away at the last minute, leaving a trail of vapor.... They slow it down a few times too.... I know.... seems to defy the laws of intertia..... http://www.fugly.com/media/view.php?cat=MOVIES&id=4753 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 I am anxious to see what some of you guys think of this video footage, taken from a helicopter in Japan, of a UFO. You can just see it on the left, to the right of the hirise, then it SHOOTS to the right, then, buzzes the chopper, turning away at the last minute, leaving a trail of vapor.... They slow it down a few times too.... I know.... seems to defy the laws of intertia..... http://www.fugly.com/media/view.php?cat=MOVIES&id=4753Dabo, It was not clear enough for me to really tell what was happening on that tape. As is typical of these tapes, there is enough visible to allow people to believe what they want. I was thinking about this thead when I started this other thread. http://hypography.com/forums/science-projects/5579-faking.html#post86393 I would be interested in what details help to convince you that something is real. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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