Wtf?

[Racoon]

I don't find this relevant at all. Enough historic fact exists to say that Christianity is based on a few true events, which details of the Gospels are exact isn't so fundamental.

 

And enough Historic Facts and Documents have been/were burned and destroyed (ie Great Library of Alexandria) that we can't really consider the "facts" or "true events" you speak of to be sufficient either...

[Spiked Blood]

This was a good post I thought by Spiked Blood, as a newbie here jumping right into the Fire and Brimstone!! :rainbow:

 

I'm destined for the ninth level.

#1) But there isn't "proof" that Jesus was a superioir being.

Beg to differ! Can you turn water into wine??? (I know, I know)

Thats the whole point of WTF?! No proof of Heaven,No proof of your Salvation, No proof of God...

Churches like the Vatican have been Banking Mad Cheddar$$$ due to the "writing" of this in scripture for a long, long time...How the hell do we really know what went on 2000+ years ago??

By listening to the Popes and preachers who exploit, control, and profit from peoples eagerness to believe what they are told??

 

Good, back to the point. Not ALL religions are corrupted by penny pinching thieves. It's wrong to label ALL religions under this same bracket.

Religion can be used to do "evil", but it can also be used as a tool to do greater things. A life without meaning, is a life without satisfaction.

 

As for proof, while I don't believe, I think there is more "proof" that there is a god than any other theory I have read or been told. I think I covered this with the gravitons. There is gravity, there must be gravitons. There is life, intricate complex life, it didn't create itself. How could it?

 

As for control? Are all people born with an inherent desire to be morally good? You can look at all religions through cynical eyes, or you can look at it as teaching people to be morally good.

#2) Ignorance is Bliss! :rose:

personally I'd rather be Right and a little bitter...

 

meh...

 

It's not about right or wrong. As is often the case, when you think you are right, someone will come along and prove otherwise.

[Racoon]

I'm destined for the ninth level.

 

Good, back to the point. Not ALL religions are corrupted by penny pinching thieves. It's wrong to label ALL religions under this same bracket.

 

You can look at all religions through cynical eyes, or you can look at it as teaching people to be morally good.

 

It's not about right or wrong. As is often the case, when you think you are right, someone will come along and prove otherwise.

 

Yes Spiked Blood. on all that I am quoting you on here! :)

 

Not ALL religions are corrupt and bad. And I never said anything along those lines. I just have a disdain for the Catholic Church due to its History of Burning people, Crusade Launches,Science Squelching, Choir Boy Sodomizing, etc, etc..:rose: (so please don't add words like "ALL", when I refer to Christ-centered religions as posed by you and many others as the primary religion being discoursed)

 

I am Buddhist myself, and try to find a Balance with the world...

Enlightenment is what I do not seek...I respect respectful religions and morally upstanding people.

Helping my fellow man is a duty to be performed whenever possible.

 

And as much as I would like to think I am right, I realize I don't really know Jack!! :rainbow:

I was just saying that I would rather know the Truth and would sacrifice some contentment; as opposed to being absolutely clueless and being happy as a clam.

 

:)

[Boerseun]

Ok. Well, could you like, explain to me where the universe is expanding into, cause, like, I don’t understand.

The Universe isn't expanding *into* anything, it is the fabric of space itself that's expanding. What lies on the other side is anybody's guess. We might be but one bubble in a foam of universes.

Frankly, my good man, I am deeply offended. Why would anybody want to question the ingenuity of turning water into wine?

Meant as a joke, I cannot disagree with you - although if He turned water into Lager, I would've been sold. Meant seriously, miracles are mythical constructs in order to awe the ignorant into believing in a certain religion in order to part with a tenth of their hard-earned shekels. Miracles are the "New! Improved!" marketing spin put on to religions, where religions try to bludgeon each other into submission with tales of bigger and more impressive strongmen. My God is better than yours! See - he can feed thousands with a few fish and a couple o' loaves!

Jesus was a superior being, he could do a hell of a lot more than just defy science.

To quote the newly-resurrected UncleAl: "Leap of faith!"

As for using Christianity to prove Christianity. Are there not different factions of Christianity?

Yes, and that fact serves as a very handy example of why I suspect the whole rock-solid Institution of Faith to be built on very crumbly foundations indeed. From their respective interpretations of the Bible, seperate branches of Christianity differ to the point of complete incompatibility with respect to fundamental issues like Birth Control, the status of the Virgin Mary in the Church, Homosexuality, Creationism, the list goes on. However, interestingly enough, the one thing that the separate Christian divisions seem to be in complete agreement upon, is the idea that you, as a believer, should part with 10% of your net income for the benefit of the Church.

I mean, is the scientific community a collective whole that all believes the one thing?

No, and I've made no claim in this thread to speak for the Scientific community. This whole thread is about my personal opinion and perspective with regards to what I believe to be a wholesale delusion, the global Institution of Faith. This happens to include, amongst others, Christianity, but is not limited to, or bound by the Bible.

Speaking of things that don’t make sense to me, can you prove the existence of gravitons? Cause, like, if I can’t see one, how do I know it’s there?

Not one single scientist on planet Earth can prove the existence of the graviton to you. A graviton is a postulated particle, and experiments are being set up to detect it. As long as it hasn't been proven experimentally, a graviton is mere speculation. And all scientists will agree to that.

Uhm, what? Are you suggesting that Santa Claus doesn't exist? You fool! Don't make me call up my friend, the Easter bunny, to come kick your ***!

He tried last year. He made an excellent rabbit stew.

It doesn’t matter if a person is right or wrong. If they’re happy being wrong, then good, just as long as they’re happy and they don’t infringe on others.

As long as they know that they might be wrong, I'm fine with that. Killing infidels or non-believers just because their belief tells them (erroneously, since they're wrong) to do that, might make them happy in the expectation of receiving rewards for their righteous actions, but kinda sucks, in my opinion. You can't expect them to not infringe on others, because they're explicitly told to do so. Christians are told in so many words to bring the Word to all the people of the World, regardless of how intrusive or obnoxious they might be whilst doing so.

[Spiked Blood]

Not one single scientist on planet Earth can prove the existence of the graviton to you. A graviton is a postulated particle, and experiments are being set up to detect it. As long as it hasn't been proven experimentally, a graviton is mere speculation. And all scientists will agree to that.

 

Good. Then I submit the existence of the mighty wineton!(prove me wrong) A particle that used the correct way can turn any liquid into wine!:rainbow:

 

I don't dispute that certain religions are corrupt or essentially harmful to society, but I don't think all are.

 

It's just my opinion, oddly (because of my upbringing), I'm usually the one to bash religions.

 

No biggie. I'm sure current religions will die out and be replaced with even bigger absurdities.

[Queso]

 

No biggie. I'm sure current religions will die out and be replaced with even bigger absurdities.

 

I'm pretty sure we're going to evolve and deemphasize religion all-together.

Prediction #93750000000000000000000000000001

[Boerseun]

Good. Then I submit the existence of the mighty wineton!(prove me wrong) A particle that used the correct way can turn any liquid into wine!:rainbow:

Okay. Us mere mortals would refer to the 'wineton' as 'yeast'. But I won't be anally retentive with this issue; I appreciate the humour, but would like to point out that the burden of proof would be on *your* shoulders regarding the wineton, as the burden of proof lies on the scientists who claim the existence of the graviton. There's a world of difference here as applied to religion, and miracles in general.

I don't dispute that certain religions are corrupt or essentially harmful to society, but I don't think all are.

By all means - I agree with you. Some religions might even be beneficial, if you look at the results of care for the homeless and the poor under the auspices of religion. Religion have also served in a big way to enforce civil law in countries of old that lacked central governments, like the ancient lands of the Bible. What I have a gripe with is that all these *good* effects and results are built upon a flawed premise, a flawed premise perpetuated to this day.

I'm sure current religions will die out and be replaced with even bigger absurdities.

Absolutely, I'm afraid. Just as a point of reference, I don't think mainstream Christianity would be recognizable at all to a Christian of the 1500's, one and a half thousand years after Christ's crucifiction. Can you imagine what Christianity would look like five hundred years from today? Televangelists, and charismatic preachers have turned the Christian church into an even bigger money-making racket, being no more than circus performers. Some of them even have their own circus tents! They have also destroyed what credibility the moral philosophy of Christianity had. (Send your check now and receive the new calf-skin covered Holy Bible - waterproof to 50 meters! Yes, brothers and sistahs, send now for the new scuba bible! But wait, the Lord jus' tole' me - praise be the Lord, brothers an' sistahs - the Lord jus' done tole' me that if you send and extra $100, you'll receive eternal life! But only for the next two hours, brothers an' sistahs! This amazing offer, brought to you by Hard Cash Ministries in conjunction with the Lord -praise be the Lord, brothers an' sistahs - can not be repeated! The Lord jus' done tole' me that He's considering sending the members of this Great Church who don't take up this offer straight to hell! To hell, brothers an' sistahs! Etc...)

 

The above example is not as extreme as you might think at first. But this didn't exist even 20 years ago. Imagine the church 200 years from today.

[Qfwfq]

The above example is not as extreme as you might think at first. But this didn't exist even 20 years ago. Imagine the church 200 years from today.

From one of Woody Allen's films:

 

It's like the 2nd principle of thermodynamics... everything goes to s!

[Racoon]

I don't find this relevant at all. Enough historic fact exists to say that Christianity is based on a few true events, which details of the Gospels are exact isn't so fundamental. Hermeneutics are applied by religious scholars to many of the described events, rather than assumption of them being fact.

 

Please tell us what those Historic facts are Qfwfq!! ;)

 

I am and we are all very curious??? ;)

Otherwise don't hit and run my posts....

 

I said enough of the Ancient facts and recorded history around that point had been burned and or destroyed to make the little facts you speak of to be insufficient..

Is that a Historical misinterpretation by my part??

 

As much as I enjoy the science you bring to the forum, I don't really appreciate the condescending tone.. ;)

[Qfwfq]

There's no need to get upset Racoon and I hadn't meant any condescending tone, not that I think you're my granpa. I hadn't seen your reply:

And enough Historic Facts and Documents have been/were burned and destroyed (ie Great Library of Alexandria) that we can't really consider the "facts" or "true events" you speak of to be sufficient either...

I'm not a historian but I know that historians don't usually find any reason to doubt the basics of the Christian narrative, any more than they doubt the existence of Cæsar, Pompeus or Cleopatra who came a few decades previously; I've only heard of a few odd ones raising such doubts about Christ. Was Alexandria the only source and are there exactly no remaining ones?

 

If I had any condescending tone, perhaps it was because the only support you gave in your own remark had been "2000+ years ago", as if that were itself a reason against the possibility of knowing anything about it. Before introducing your attitude, why didn't you reflect on the clarity of your remark and make a comparison? Not that this thread has been the coolest and most collected around but you could have made a self-clarification before turning up the heat.

[Racoon]

There's no need to get upset Racoon and I hadn't meant any condescending tone, not that I think you're my granpa. I hadn't seen your reply:I'm not a historian but I know that historians don't usually find any reason to doubt the basics of the Christian narrative, any more than they doubt the existence of Cæsar, Pompeus or Cleopatra who came a few decades previously; I've only heard of a few odd ones raising such doubts about Christ. Was Alexandria the only source and are there exactly no remaining ones?

 

If I had any condescending tone, perhaps it was because the only support you gave in your own remark had been "2000+ years ago", as if that were itself a reason against the possibility of knowing anything about it. Before introducing your attitude, why didn't you reflect on the clarity of your remark and make a comparison? Not that this thread has been the coolest and most collected around but you could have made a self-clarification before turning up the heat.

 

You haven't stated the facts I requested after you said there where enough of to support your claim???

Albeit few...

 

forget the emotional tone.!

[Racoon]

You implicitly said "enough historical fact"

 

I and We want to hear those Qfwfq???

[Queso]

Everything that ever was is a song that is sung into existence.

[Racoon]

I don't find this relevant at all. Enough historic fact exists to say that Christianity is based on a few true events,

 

I am still trying... :cool:

[Qfwfq]

Everything that ever was is a song that is sung into existence.

And that's a Fact.

[Racoon]

And that's a Fact.

 

that sounds like a mature response. :cool:

[Boerseun]

And that's a Fact.

Now that was a big F!!!