Salvia Divinorum

[plumber]

I agree with inny. Smoking just the leaf produces nothing like the 10, 20X potency "incense" sold in head shops, smoke shops whatever. The potent extracts are another beast altogether. It is very very different, and not a thing to be done lightly. It's powers of detachment are so profound you had better be a bug eating witch doctor in the hills of Mexico with nothing better to do. A 106 fever produces hallucinations as well...but it sure isn't much fun. I believe that if the duration of effects were a bit longer, say 30 minutes to a couple of hours, a lot of people would not find their way back. The detachment would be psychologically devastating and permanent. It tends to partition your accepted consciousness into two. One thought process seeks to convince the other that detachment is in fact the true reality and that your body is no longer needed:eek2: Now that's what I call detachment! Because of this aspect, I do not believe it to be an aid to any kind of quest...higher learning, expanding the mind, examining ones inner workings etc.

Wish you well, but don't do it. I just had to say something about it. I didn't fool with it as far as moderation goes...I wanted to know what it was capable of. If you must, if this sounds fun, then please read up and and follow the protocols found elsewhere. Take care,

plumber

[lemit]

Maybe you should check the Hypography rules, specifically Rule 6.

 

--lemit

[plumber]

Hey lemit, Im sorry. wasnt promoting or encouraging. Maybe you got my post mixed up with another? Its kind of like birth control... I said dont do it. But if you must...go elsewhere for your info...:naughty:

[lemit]

Sorry. Some of the posts looked a little weird to me. I didn't mean to offend.

 

--lemit

[Michaelangelica]

I think it is a great pity that :-

1. We extract herbs from their traditional society and culture where they are most likely understood and used in positive ways such as shamanistic practices.

We then use them in a different cultural milure and with no respect for the herb or the culture they came from. We use them for our own personal gratification

and often poorly researched "experimentation".

2.

The level of ignorance and fear among government and regultaors who usually "Ban" (whatever that means in reality) certain herbs which of course makes them more interesting and attractive.

In Australia even medical research on this interesting herb has been banned.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;

In my reading on this herb it is the fresh juice of the whole leaf that is used.

[Moontanman]

Very true Michael, cocaine is not a problem in it's native land but it's the scourge of the earth in many other places. You make good sense.

[plumber]

Those days are gone. To rule and guide the society around you by the visions and influences of a mind altering herb...mankind's imagination can be bad enough all by it's self. Hey wait! maybe there are worse things in the world and in the hearts of men. World history: give it to us...we will screw it up. I am waxing philosophical, I apologize. Evidence is scientific though.

[Michaelangelica]

Very true Michael, cocaine is not a problem in it's native land but it's the scourge of the earth in many other places. You make good sense.

Thank you.;)

Cocaine leaves are useful for the Indians to survive at high altitudes. It also has other traditional medicinal uses. However pure cocaine, extracted from the leaves and concentrated 1,000 times is a different product. Then transpose that drug to a different society/culture and for different uses and you have a problem. Then, chemically "crack' this product, which makes it highly addictive and again the problem is further compounded. I would love to chew the odd cocaine leaf, although would never use cocaine especially chemically mucked about with. I can just see Australian Customs permitting me to import a plant.

 

A similar senario/case can be made with tobacco. The American indian did not chain smoke little cigars. They smoked tobacco occasionally and ceremonially only and with the addition of many other herbs like lobelia. Lobelia inflata was once (recently) used to stop tobacco addiction.

 

Psychotopic plants have another group against them and that is the Religious and organised religion like the big three.

Perhaps they are afraid? Will someone else receive The Revealed Truth?

Ironic really, when it is possible that halucinogenic plants gave man the first inclinations/indications of the devine and probably kick started religion and religious practices. See the work of Wasson on this (US mycologist 1930-40s?)

He does suggest that with cow domestication also comes, cow poo and hence interesting mushrooms; so it is possible that the development of agriculture also led to the development of religion.

Interesting that we all have a mushroom fear also trained into us in many Western developed counties; when in fact very few kill, and those that are toxic often put out a neon sign like bright red caps, foul taste or odour etc etc.

 

It seems to be a human need to "get off our face" occasionally. IMHO those that want to should be left alone to do it. At the moment the War on Drugs is destroyoing our cultural institions. The legal, politcal, medical, econmoic sytems that we all rely on NOT to be corrupted by billions trillions in drug money. Everyone has their price.

 

Meanwhile the irrational fear, prejudice and suspicion of traditional medicinal practices, botany and herbal medicine stymies good research.

 

To turn the coin over, Harvard University Phytopharmacy Departments have been alarmed that the introduction of Western drugs like anti-biotics has destroyed the S. American Indian's faith in their Shaman. White Man's Medicine, because it can cure things the the village shaman might not be able to; (the introduced white man's diseases mainly), is seen as more "powerful'. This is sad for two reasons. Firstly becuase many local, cheap, well tried and available cures are ignored in favour of expensive western alternatives; and secondly --the thing Harrvard is most worried about-- the traditional, oral, Shamanic tradition is not being passed on. No one wants to be The Shaman's Apprentice as he has no cultural status anymore.

 

The Shaman's Apprentice see the book by Mark Plotkin from Harvard

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Tales-of-a-Shamans-Apprentice/Mark-J-Plotkin/e/9780140129915