Gravity

[Profit147th]

         I believe gravity comes from the heat that the Sun puts out. Heat pushes down on the surface of the planet, the atmosphere is what’s created when it’s on its way back up. The North and South Pole are what keep it from expanding too far. The Earth helps the Sun burn in return by making pressure between them. As we rotate the Earth is heating somewhat evenly, pulling the heat to it’s core and around the surface. That’s what's pretty much holding us down, giving us gravity. 

          The Moon, I’d say, would have to be white hot, probably same temperature on its surface as the Sun at times. Keeping us from freezing over at night. Idk how any anybody could’ve gone there. 

          So imagine everyday we took dirt in spaceships to another planet. Making the Earth that much lighter than it originally is. That would pull us closer, and/or push us farther away from the Sun. Which would create global warming, an ice age, both, either way putting us out of the realm of the conditions we where originally formed. Fossil fuels are the only thing that we use, that doesn’t go back to the Earth or replenish itself in a timely matter…just saying.

             Timothy Huntley Williams 
                 Scottsdale, AZ

[Vmedvil2]

12 hours ago, Profit147th said:

         I believe gravity comes from the heat that the Sun puts out. Heat pushes down on the surface of the planet, the atmosphere is what’s created when it’s on its way back up. The North and South Pole are what keep it from expanding too far. The Earth helps the Sun burn in return by making pressure between them. As we rotate the Earth is heating somewhat evenly, pulling the heat to it’s core and around the surface. That’s what's pretty much holding us down, giving us gravity. 

          The Moon, I’d say, would have to be white hot, probably same temperature on its surface as the Sun at times. Keeping us from freezing over at night. Idk how any anybody could’ve gone there. 

          So imagine everyday we took dirt in spaceships to another planet. Making the Earth that much lighter than it originally is. That would pull us closer, and/or push us farther away from the Sun. Which would create global warming, an ice age, both, either way putting us out of the realm of the conditions we where originally formed. Fossil fuels are the only thing that we use, that doesn’t go back to the Earth or replenish itself in a timely matter…just saying.

             Timothy Huntley Williams 
                 Scottsdale, AZ

This is crank, sorry you are just wrong.

[Profit147th]

The Sun is constantly radiating energy. Think about the Sun as the blast from a rocket thats strapped down..If there were a wall behind it, the heat would move across the wall and also back the direction it came. Even if no wall existed, the force, just like from a bomb, would keep moving in a wave untill it couldn't.

[Profit147th]

         I believe gravity comes from the heat that the Sun puts out. Heat pushes down on the surface of the planet, the atmosphere is what’s created when it’s on its way back up. The North and South Pole are what keep it from expanding too far. The Earth helps the Sun burn in return by making pressure between them. As we rotate the Earth is heating somewhat evenly, pulling the heat to it’s core and around the surface. That’s what's pretty much holding us down, giving us gravity. 

  *Think about water.

          The Moon, I’d say, would have to be white hot, probably same temperature on its surface as the Sun at times. Keeping us from freezing over at night. Idk how any anybody could’ve gone there. 

          So imagine everyday we took dirt in spaceships to another planet. Making the Earth that much lighter than it originally is. That would pull us closer, and/or push us farther away from the Sun. Which would create global warming, an ice age, both, either way putting us out of the realm of the conditions we where originally formed. Fossil fuels are the only thing that we use, that doesn’t go back to the Earth or replenish itself in a timely matter. 

   * I'm saying that because, if we're attracted to the Sun, and the heat is pushing us back, the weight of the world would determine how we orbit.

             Timothy Huntley Williams 
                 Scottsdale, AZ

Edited December 21, 2021 by Profit147th
Forgot a little info

[Profit147th]

We're an atom

[Vmedvil2]

1 hour ago, Profit147th said:

The Sun is constantly radiating energy. Think about the Sun as the blast from a rocket thats strapped down..If there were a wall behind it, the heat would move across the wall and also back the direction it came. Even if no wall existed, the force, just like from a bomb, would keep moving in a wave untill it couldn't.

Gravity is created by Energy-Mass which is explained by Einstein's theory of general relativity, the sun is kept at a specific density by the outward pressure of matter not wanting to be compressed and the fact it is emitting large amounts of energy then the pressure of gravity pushing inward against this external pressure.

 

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/astronomy/chapter/the-solar-interior-theory/

Edited December 22, 2021 by VictorMedvil

[Profit147th]

I win😉

[Vmedvil2]

1 hour ago, Profit147th said:

I win😉

Well, you are not correct there are several things that you have confused such as the moon being really hot actually the moon shifts between warm and cold,When sunlight hits the moon's surface, the temperature can reach 260 degrees Fahrenheit (127 degrees Celsius). When the sun goes down, temperatures can dip to minus 280 F (minus 173 C) and it's not exactly the heat of the sun that contributes to most of its gravity mostly it is mass, the "Heat" or energy of the sun does contribute a small portion of its gravity. Thirdly, you are never going to take enough mass from the earth to effect the orbit around the sun of the earth as the earth is 5.972 × 10^24 kg.

Edited December 22, 2021 by VictorMedvil

[OceanBreeze]

12 hours ago, Profit147th said:

I win😉

 Your question seems to be whether the Moon and the Sun, and the positions of them in the sky, make us weigh more or less and they do a little bit. Typically the overall variation due to the positions of the Sun and the Moon might be as small as about 10 or 15 mg, which is less than an aspirin so it really isn't going to make much difference. Gravity is not fully understood, but it is related to the mass of the object or objects that something is in close proximity to. For us here on Earth, it is the mass of the Earth which primarily determines how much gravity we are exposed to. Other bodies, such as the sun and the moon, do have some effect on the gravity we are exposed to, but because of their great distance from us, the effect is small compared to the gravitational pull of the Earth.

So, no, you don't win the kewpie doll this time around. But welcome to the forum, anyway.

 

[spartan45]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:44 PM, Profit147th said:

The Sun is constantly radiating energy. Think about the Sun as the blast from a rocket thats strapped down..If there were a wall behind it, the heat would move across the wall and also back the direction it came. Even if no wall existed, the force, just like from a bomb, would keep moving in a wave untill it couldn't.

To examine the possible effect of the solar wind on the Earth and its satellites:

Diagram shows the Earth’s magnetic field interacting with the solar wind creating ‘bow shock’. Bow shocks are described as similar to the waves that form at the bow of a ship and occur around all magnetic planets.

This diagram was inspired after visiting the DTU Space research into Mars’ magnetic field web pages – very interesting reading.

The diagram shows the Moon and Earth orbital velocity could be reduced by the solar wind. Indeed the best evidence of this probably comes from the Echo 1, Echo 2, and Pageos balloon satellites.

Echo 1 mass = 66kg, r = 15.25m, Alt = 1,600km, re-entry 8years, decay 175km/year (1,400Km/8yrs)

Echo 2 mass = 68kg, r = 20.5m, Alt = 1,200km, re-entry 5 years, decay 200km/year (1,000Km/5yrs)

Pageos mass = 57kg, r = 15.25m, Alt = 4,000km, re-entry 9 years, decay 422km/year (3,800Km/9yrs)

(Decay rate assumes re-entry occurs below 200km)

The figures above show how quickly the satellite orbits decayed. It is well documented how the solar wind pushed these balloon satellites around during their life in space. Pageos had a near polar orbit unlike Echo 1 and 2 and this may be the reason the Pageos orbit decayed the quickest.

Using the data from the balloon satellite Echo 1 (highest density) I wanted to very roughly estimate the possible effect of the solar wind on the Moon’s orbit around Earth:

Volume of sphere Echo 1 = 4πr3 = 14856m3    Density Echo 1 = m = 66kg         = 4.443x10-3kg/m3

                                               3                                                        V   14856m3

Raise by one line the 3 and the V 14856m3 to make sense of above, I couldn't get the page format to work!

Assuming that density is directly proportional to orbital decay of balloon satellite Echo 1 then if we divide Echo 1 density by Moon density and multiply the result by the annual orbit decay of Echo 1 the result is a very shaky approximation of orbital decay of Echo 1 if it had the same density as the Moon. The result is 0.232metres orbital decay per year:

ρ Echo 1    4.443x10-3kg/m3  x decay per year of 175,000m = 0.232m at Moon’s density

ρ Moon      3344kg/m3 

The next step is to make yet another shaky assumption that orbital decay due to solar wind effect is proportional to orbital velocity:

Velocity Echo 1 at 700km = 7.5km/s. Velocity of Moon at 378,000km = 1 km/s

Extra drag at 7.5 times the velocity of Moon’s orbit and a higher magnetic field strength nearer Earth on Echo1 annual rate of decay of Moon’s orbit due to solar wind is less by 0.232m /7.5 = 0.031m. Now multiply 0.031m orbital decay by 0.61 of magnetic field strength due to Moon’s much higher orbit than Echo 1: = 0.019m. This shaky estimation 1.9cm annual orbital decay of the Moon due to the solar wind is too small to measure against  the tidal pull due to Earth’s spin which in-fact results in the Moon’s annual orbital distance being measured as increasing by 3.8cm per year.

The solar wind effect on Earth’s orbit is negligible considering Earth-Sun distance.

 

[spartan45]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:06 AM, Profit147th said:

   I believe gravity comes from the heat that the Sun puts out.

No, this is not so.

Gravity is difficult to understand, although we have equations to calculate gravitational force, one such equation below: 

Earth’s gravity field at 0km altitude:

F = GM_E

         r²                    F= Gravitational force   The symbol G denotes the universal gravitational constant, ( it has the same value anywhere in the universe),  this was first measured (1798) by Henry Cavendish: its value found experimentally to be  G=6.67430x10^-11 N m²/Kg² . M_E = Earth’s Mass of   5.9726x10²⁴kg   r = Earth’s radius 6.371x10⁶m.

 

F = (6.67430x10^-11Nm²/kg²) (5.9726x10²⁴kg)         F = 3.98629x10¹⁴ 

                                (6.371x10⁶m)²                                   4.05896x10¹³              

F = 9.821 m/s²

Moon’s gravity field at 0km altitude:

 

F = GM_M

r²                   F= Gravitational force   The symbol G denotes the universal gravitational constant, (it has the same value anywhere in the universe), this was first measured (1798) by Henry Cavendish: its value found experimentally to be  G=6.67430x10^-11 N m²/Kg². M_M = Moon’s Mass of   7.3242x10²²kg                 r = Moon’s radius 1.7371x10⁶m.

 

F = (6.67430x10^-11Nm²/kg²) (7.3242x10²²kg)         F = 4.88839x10¹² 

                                (1.7371x10⁶m)²                                  3.01752x10¹²              

F = 1.62 m/s²

These figures show that on the Moon, gravity is only about 1/6^th compared to the gravity on the Earth, just as the astronauts experienced.

There are other such equations for calculating planetary and satellite orbital properties, gravity time dilation effect, and more, but unfortunately being able to calculate gravitational force does not explain how it works.

 Experimentally we appear to have proven that gravity propagates at the speed of light, I find it counter intuitive that just like electric and magnetic static fields, gravity also moves instantly in a static field; (ask google – ‘What speed of gravity is used in space probe trajectory calculations’ – and look for this forum amongst the top results). Gravity is interesting.

[spartan45]

The video I found referenced below is good at explaining that Gravity is curvature of space-time, a concept only realised relatively recently.

Ref: ‘The REAL source of Gravity might SURPRISE you’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5PfjsPdBzg

 

The video below is a nice musical summary of the secret of the stars and gravity:

Ref: Symphony of Science - Secret of the Stars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuxFXHircaI

[Vmedvil2]

1 hour ago, spartan45 said:

 

To examine the possible effect of the solar wind on the Earth and its satellites:

Diagram shows the Earth’s magnetic field interacting with the solar wind creating ‘bow shock’. Bow shocks are described as similar to the waves that form at the bow of a ship and occur around all magnetic planets.

 

This diagram was inspired after visiting the DTU Space research into Mars’ magnetic field web pages – very interesting reading.

The diagram shows the Moon and Earth orbital velocity could be reduced by the solar wind. Indeed the best evidence of this probably comes from the Echo 1, Echo 2, and Pageos balloon satellites.

Echo 1 mass = 66kg, r = 15.25m, Alt = 1,600km, re-entry 8years, decay 175km/year (1,400Km/8yrs)

Echo 2 mass = 68kg, r = 20.5m, Alt = 1,200km, re-entry 5 years, decay 200km/year (1,000Km/5yrs)

Pageos mass = 57kg, r = 15.25m, Alt = 4,000km, re-entry 9 years, decay 422km/year (3,800Km/9yrs)

(Decay rate assumes re-entry occurs below 200km)

The figures above show how quickly the satellite orbits decayed. It is well documented how the solar wind pushed these balloon satellites around during their life in space. Pageos had a near polar orbit unlike Echo 1 and 2 and this may be the reason the Pageos orbit decayed the quickest.

Using the data from the balloon satellite Echo 1 (highest density) I wanted to very roughly estimate the possible effect of the solar wind on the Moon’s orbit around Earth:

Volume of sphere Echo 1 = 4πr3 = 14856m3    Density Echo 1 = m = 66kg         = 4.443x10-3kg/m3

                                               3                                                        V   14856m3

Raise by one line the 3 and the V 14856m3 to make sense of above, I couldn't get the page format to work!

Assuming that density is directly proportional to orbital decay of balloon satellite Echo 1 then if we divide Echo 1 density by Moon density and multiply the result by the annual orbit decay of Echo 1 the result is a very shaky approximation of orbital decay of Echo 1 if it had the same density as the Moon. The result is 0.232metres orbital decay per year:

ρ Echo 1    4.443x10-3kg/m3  x decay per year of 175,000m = 0.232m at Moon’s density

ρ Moon      3344kg/m3 

The next step is to make yet another shaky assumption that orbital decay due to solar wind effect is proportional to orbital velocity:

Velocity Echo 1 at 700km = 7.5km/s. Velocity of Moon at 378,000km = 1 km/s

Extra drag at 7.5 times the velocity of Moon’s orbit and a higher magnetic field strength nearer Earth on Echo1 annual rate of decay of Moon’s orbit due to solar wind is less by 0.232m /7.5 = 0.031m. Now multiply 0.031m orbital decay by 0.61 of magnetic field strength due to Moon’s much higher orbit than Echo 1: = 0.019m. This shaky estimation 1.9cm annual orbital decay of the Moon due to the solar wind is too small to measure against  the tidal pull due to Earth’s spin which in-fact results in the Moon’s annual orbital distance being measured as increasing by 3.8cm per year.

The solar wind effect on Earth’s orbit is negligible considering Earth-Sun distance.

 

 

1 hour ago, spartan45 said:

 

No, this is not so.

Gravity is difficult to understand, although we have equations to calculate gravitational force, one such equation below: 

Earth’s gravity field at 0km altitude:

F = GM_E

         r²                    F= Gravitational force   The symbol G denotes the universal gravitational constant, ( it has the same value anywhere in the universe),  this was first measured (1798) by Henry Cavendish: its value found experimentally to be  G=6.67430x10^-11 N m²/Kg² . M_E = Earth’s Mass of   5.9726x10²⁴kg   r = Earth’s radius 6.371x10⁶m.

 

F = (6.67430x10^-11Nm²/kg²) (5.9726x10²⁴kg)         F = 3.98629x10¹⁴ 

                                (6.371x10⁶m)²                                   4.05896x10¹³              

F = 9.821 m/s²

Moon’s gravity field at 0km altitude:

 

F = GM_M

r²                   F= Gravitational force   The symbol G denotes the universal gravitational constant, (it has the same value anywhere in the universe), this was first measured (1798) by Henry Cavendish: its value found experimentally to be  G=6.67430x10^-11 N m²/Kg². M_M = Moon’s Mass of   7.3242x10²²kg                 r = Moon’s radius 1.7371x10⁶m.

 

F = (6.67430x10^-11Nm²/kg²) (7.3242x10²²kg)         F = 4.88839x10¹² 

                                (1.7371x10⁶m)²                                  3.01752x10¹²              

F = 1.62 m/s²

These figures show that on the Moon, gravity is only about 1/6^th compared to the gravity on the Earth, just as the astronauts experienced.

There are other such equations for calculating planetary and satellite orbital properties, gravity time dilation effect, and more, but unfortunately being able to calculate gravitational force does not explain how it works.

 Experimentally we appear to have proven that gravity propagates at the speed of light, I find it counter intuitive that just like electric and magnetic static fields, gravity also moves instantly in a static field; (ask google – ‘What speed of gravity is used in space probe trajectory calculations’ – and look for this forum amongst the top results). Gravity is interesting.

 

1 hour ago, spartan45 said:

 

The video I found referenced below is good at explaining that Gravity is curvature of space-time, a concept only realised relatively recently.

Ref: ‘The REAL source of Gravity might SURPRISE you’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5PfjsPdBzg

 

The video below is a nice musical summary of the secret of the stars and gravity:

Ref: Symphony of Science - Secret of the Stars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuxFXHircaI

Stop cranking up the forums.

[Profit147th]

Lol. Damn. Do me a favor this one time, let's stop quoting other people's work, and use our own brains if we have to. It's simply right there!! Where does the energy from the Sun go, and what effect would it have on the Earth? The energy moves in waves, creating part of gravity. Think about the surface of water...then you have the heat being drawn into the core. We're being pulled towards the Sun, and pushed back by the energy it's producing, keeping us at a perfect distance. Until you start reducing the Earth's weight, using fossil fuels. Pulling us too close (global warming) or making us farther (ice age). I'm telling you!!! But which force would be greater? The attraction we have to the Sun, or the outward force from the energy the Sun produces? If you don't think the Moon is WHITE HOT, take a math class homeboy!!

[Profit147th]

That dude's wacked out!!! I can't listen to that ****. Think for yourself first!!!

[Vmedvil2]

2 hours ago, Profit147th said:

Lol. Damn. Do me a favor this one time, let's stop quoting other people's work, and use our own brains if we have to. It's simply right there!! Where does the energy from the Sun go, and what effect would it have on the Earth? The energy moves in waves, creating part of gravity. Think about the surface of water...then you have the heat being drawn into the core. We're being pulled towards the Sun, and pushed back by the energy it's producing, keeping us at a perfect distance. Until you start reducing the Earth's weight, using fossil fuels. Pulling us too close (global warming) or making us farther (ice age). I'm telling you!!! But which force would be greater? The attraction we have to the Sun, or the outward force from the energy the Sun produces? If you don't think the Moon is WHITE HOT, take a math class homeboy!!

 

2 hours ago, Profit147th said:

That dude's wacked out!!! I can't listen to that ****. Think for yourself first!!!

No, what is sad is the fact that people post things and don't do basic research on the topic then after that come up with clearly false ideas which they assume are fact. It makes me doubt if the human species is truly a intelligent sapient species due to the utter lack of understanding of very basic concepts by the majority of people that post on this forums. That is why I just post how you are wrong or right if you want to stay delusional that is your prerogative not mine I know due to research that my ideas are correct, but I want to tell you honestly nothing delights me more than when people don't post crank ideas so I can explain more details about the subject and that they are correct adding to the original post. Depressingly about 90% of the people that post things on the internet have exactly "zero" clue of what they are talking about, even about very basic concepts, I don't fight with them I just call them a crank and go on, I don't really care if they continue to believe their false beliefs but I want others to know they are false, so they don't fall into believing the same false things as the person that posted them. Often, the reason why they have such faith in their beliefs is due to the Dunning Kruger Effect which basically means that people overestimate their own expertise in a subject and there are often very confident fools that go around spouting nonsense as they think themselves as a expert on a subject even having barely studied it, personally I have been studying science for 21 years, I have zero doubt in my knowledge as it was gained by research from reliable sources, but even I know the depths of what I don't know and my knowledge can be appended by evidence and logical argument unlike cranks which are set in their belief which makes them more of a annoyance than anything. This being my retort to what you have said, Saying that "The Moon is 1000 degrees or that gravity is caused by heat" is not enough I would need experiment evidence confirmed by multiple sources that shows that, that follows the scientific method. This is the reason why you are not believed by me as I am a skeptic, I can be convinced by data saying a thing does not make it true unless it has solid evidence and data supporting it. Just remember "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", this is the reason why super polymath is hit and miss sometimes he states things that have a great body of proof behind them and other times he claims things that are extraordinary without a great deal a proof, I disbelieve the ideas without evidence and believe the things with it.

Edited December 24, 2021 by VictorMedvil

[Profit147th]

I appreciate you buddy, I talk a lot of crap. I don't mean to offend anybody, I just get over excited sometimes.