Intelligent Design of the universe!

[coldcreation]

CC, interesting comment. what does it mean? are you saying some outside force changes or alters the state of man?

 

Absolutely not.

 

By definition, the unwieldy institutions and their civil servants have as a primary objective the same aspirations as the independents: to determine with great accuracy the dynamic worldly developments. However, the impact of commercial expansion and success of theories, thoughts, and ambitions of a large majority in the world of science must not be confused with success in terms of observational compatibility. Said differently, strong commercial performance means nothing if the theory cannot be tested observationally or proved experimentally. From this latter it follows that by looking at the relative success and failure of advanced observational cosmology alongside the alternatives, some opening answers can be offered to the crucial questions embodied in such universal concepts as creation, formation, structure and evolution.

 

I'm afraid theology, as commercial as it has become (along with its version of the big bang) have to be ruled out. You cannot provide observational evidence for a Creator (call It what you will).

 

cc

[questor]

CC, pray tell why you equate theology with the possibility of a creator? does theology mean

to you a man made religion? i have said nothing about a God, or diety, or any other concept of religious thought . i don't think the creator if it exists gives a damn about what a puny creature such as man does or thinks. if you totally take man away the same question would remain... how did the universe occur? if your answer is cold creation, that is enough, but what does the creation part of that process mean?

[coldcreation]

CC, pray tell why you equate theology with the possibility of a creator? does theology mean

to you a man made religion? i have said nothing about a God, or diety, or any other concept of religious thought . i don't think the creator if it exists gives a damn about what a puny creature such as man does or thinks. if you totally take man away the same question would remain... how did the universe occur? if your answer is cold creation, that is enough, but what does the creation part of that process mean?

 

The universe doesn't just "occur," it wasn't created. Certainly matter is created. (see a new thread called Material Creation, in the astronomy and cosmology section).

 

Man is the most complex creature we know of in the universe. Who cares how big we are? If man were removed from the cosmos, so too would disapear the notion of a creator, of theology. Man created 'the creator' not the other way around. We created God, and we can destroy Him.

 

see Nietzsche, F. 1883, 1961, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

 

CC

[questor]

if man were removed from the cosmos, his notion of God would disappear. what would not disappear is the cosmos itself. it would continue to operate as it did in the eons before the appearance of man. the question still remains... how did all this occur?

[Csongor]

wow. This is really intresting phylosophy........What do you think anyone could become a GOD after he/she died, and the larg community wanted him/her become there GOD untill he/she reborne as a human again?

 

 

Csongor

[FRIPRO]

Shouldn''t this be in the religion forum?

 

 

I agree, if it is Inteligent Design but if it is UIDEUniverse's Intelligent Design by Evolution, Refer to FRIPRO in the index and read about, it is scientific!

 

I might add:Man just cannot seem to get the message, that all species here on Earth may evolve in part , by themselves. So he (man) looked to a god to explain it for them! (Some, in the modern world, call it Intelligent Design).

 

What If there is (no god)? Then how did we get here? , I would like to remind my readers of a curious part in the constitution of the United States it say: "endowed by our Creator . . . ." even though we know how most people interpret it, and also how our framers of the constitution probably meant it; however is still says Creator! But is that Creator god? Or is it the UIDE itself!

[FRIPRO]

the sticking point here is the insistence upon calling the creator God and trying to relate him to man. God is a creation by man to explain how things happened on earth and around him. lets say for some reason the earth and all life on it disappeared. would the universe stop operating? would gravity disappear? would light stop traveling at C? would not the same order that exists in the universe now continue after man and his concept of God was gone? if this order does exist and persist ,what induces the order? if there was a big bang why do spins and orbits of planets exist. who/what made gravity? how did all the things that make the universe work occur? happenstance? unbelievable coincidence?

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS! I am nealy 98 percent with you. I certianly would like to hear more. In fact I am writing a manuscript on line, that I invite you and others to comment and even submit short thoughts -- for inclusion .

 

This is not an advertisement but a lengthly manuscript in the area of (not beliving in ID as it is professed by the religious right -- and many Earth's humans, as you have expressed.

 

Thank you again for great words of wisdom FRIPRO

 

http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html

[madmike]

the Bible's creation story starts with a series of bifurcation events.

light / dark, sky / earth, land / water, life / non-life(plant), until you get to man / woman and the knowledge of good and evil and from there, every choice of consequence has quantumly bifurcated reality! enter H. Beam Piper's Paratime, and the reason that God would have to make free will ... a geometrically / logarithmically expanding multiverse in which all choices are present. Creation on automatic propagation!!! Now I'm a PanTheist and

Pan-Deist and am of the opinion that God has created conflicting religions, cults, and sects that challenge the "natural" inclinations of humans as a

way to cause further choice bifurcations to propagate the Multiverse.

Now That's "Intelligent Design" don't you think?

[FRIPRO]

the Bible's creation story starts with a series of bifurcation events.

light / dark, sky / earth, land / water, life / non-life(plant), until you get to man / woman and the knowledge of good and evil and from there, every choice of consequence has quantumly bifurcated reality! enter H. Beam Piper's Paratime, and the reason that God would have to make free will ... a geometrically / logarithmically expanding multiverse in which all choices are present. Creation on automatic propagation!!! Now I'm a PanTheist and

Pan-Deist and am of the opinion that God has created conflicting religions, cults, and sects that challenge the "natural" inclinations of humans as a

way to cause further choice bifurcations to propagate the Multiverse.

Now That's "Intelligent Design" don't you think?

 

FIRST and FOREMOST: We earth beings must accept the concept that the bible was written by men. These men believed thay were inspired by their creator, their god! We must have the courage to accept that the Bible (an many other religious books, now accepted as the word of god--as infallible! (But only by half of the Worlds population) believe the Bible is infallible;however, many believe it is, a religious history of the race that wrote it. (Its readers, propose, that it is the greatest story ever told -- but is it?) It certainly is a great story! History!

 

As to Intelligent design I have said over and over again; In Webster's dictionary, Intelligent means the capacity to perceive and comprehend meaning; information, the power of the mind to accept and understand."

 

Therefore man is not the design source of the intelligence. The reason he is not, is because what he (man) creates is artificial. Artificial means: "made by man not found in nature! So man created the bible etc. (written) by men, than it is not Intelligent Design, as man only creates artificial design-- even Webster's definitions--says so!

 

So now the great religions of the Earth now want to claim, that "Intelligent Design" is realy behind man's and Earth's creation. They insist that this Intelligent Designer is god, based on the books written by men! What if it is not? Than what do we men on Earth do?

 

Read the reference : UIDE http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html An please submit your rebutal -- if any! I should like to include it in the manuscript now being written-- and I might say by an Earthman, but inspired by whom?

[Southtown]

-- even Webster's definitions--says so!

Fight book with book, ay? You do realize that your intangible preaching did not even acknowledge the insight put forth by madmike, don't you?

 

the Bible's creation story starts with a series of bifurcation events.

light / dark, sky / earth, land / water, life / non-life(plant), until you get to man / woman and the knowledge of good and evil and from there, every choice of consequence has quantumly bifurcated reality! enter H. Beam Piper's Paratime, and the reason that God would have to make free will ... a geometrically / logarithmically expanding multiverse in which all choices are present. Creation on automatic propagation!!! Now I'm a PanTheist and

Pan-Deist and am of the opinion that God has created conflicting religions, cults, and sects that challenge the "natural" inclinations of humans as a

way to cause further choice bifurcations to propagate the Multiverse.

Now That's "Intelligent Design" don't you think?

From a fellow Oregonian, mike, you are a brilliant person. You struck the chord of creation that I have been on for a little while. Only you are more clearly thought out and well spoken. Even the multi-religion thing is right on track. Though, God did not "bifurcate" the world religions, as you say. (I learned a new word.) It was man that divided truth into different skews of reality, and also continues to today.

 

Noticing the branching off of religions is a major obstacle for most minds. You should be proud. Believers and non-believers alike have grown attached to the idea that religion irreparably opposes religion. But, we can trace the world religions back to their respective points of origin and massively benefit humanity, in my opinion.

 

The problem is that most people aren't as concerned with retracing to origin as they are to more bifurcation, honing their own reality, so-to-speak. It appears that retracing to origin has to be a subjective venture, as opposed to the "organized" approach. Hmm, well, maybe that is by design as well.

[FRIPRO]

Fight book with book, ay? You do realize that your intangible preaching did not even acknowledge the insight put forth by madmike, don't you?

 

 

From a fellow Oregonian, mike, you are a brilliant person. You struck the chord of creation that I have been on for a little while. Only you are more clearly thought out and well spoken. Even the multi-religion thing is right on track. Though, God did not "bifurcate" the world religions, as you say. (I learned a new word.) It was man that divided truth into different skews of reality, and also continues to today.

 

Noticing the branching off of religions is a major obstacle for most minds. You should be proud. Believers and non-believers alike have grown attached to the idea that religion irreparably opposes religion. But, we can trace the world religions back to their respective points of origin and massively benefit humanity, in my opinion.

 

The problem is that most people aren't as concerned with retracing to origin as they are to more bifurcation, honing their own reality, so-to-speak. It appears that retracing to origin has to be a subjective venture, as opposed to the "organized" approach. Hmm, well, maybe that is by design as well.

 

 

The CONTROVERSY

 

One of the scientific and theological subjects that puzzles the Earth's people most, is the origin of the Universe. In the pass few years our technology has given us a greater insight into the birth of the Earth, however, it has not shed much light on the Universe itself.

 

There are constant theoretical arguments, as to where did man come from? Where did the earth come from. Where did the Universe come from? Is there a God? Is there a hereafter for humans? Is evolution important or is Intelligent design (meaning a creator) more important.

 

If there was creation, where was the creator before creation? Are there other beings in the Universe? When was the Universe created? Was it really created or does it exist forever?

 

What is gravity? Does the Universe have an Ether atmosphere? Can one travel faster then the speed of light? Are we alone in the Universe? Is the Universe god? Is the Universe expanding? Does time have a beginning or end? Will the Universe end? Does the gods end with it?

 

All of the above scientific and theoretical questions are a constant source of argument. The cry from the many theoretical and scientific experts say "prove it"! Earthmen know that one can not prove any of the answers to the above questions. Go to any on line forum on the internet, and one will see how badly divided the worlds communities are, with regards to answers to the above questions.

 

Can there ever be a unified theory, of the Universe, that is accepted as truth? Why do we need to know the truth? In the human, when does the first light of conscientious occur? Is the earth a living organism with a ID (mind) or conciseness? Why are we humans here, on Earth? Do Earth humans possess a SIXTH SENSE?

 

The reference to: a manuscript written in real time, puts forth a new theory "(UIDE)* Universe's Intelligent Design by Evolution" (UIDE! Pronounced U-DE) that may answer some or all of the above questions. Regardless of how this manuscript proposes the answers to the great CONTROVERSY. Half of the Earthmen believe they know better, and will confront this with the argument-- where is the scientific proof? Or do we accept it on faith alone? Others will ask is it logical?

 

Again reference the manuscript at:http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html

[FRIPRO]

I think that some people just have a hard time believing that there really is no purpose to their life and that there is no great being that gives a crap what they do or what happens to them.

 

 

You sure have hit it on the head!

 

But if we consider that the Universe alway was and always will be- we can perhaps see it differently FRIPRO

 

Reference if you care to read it at:http://www.fripro.com/AIDE.html

[questor]

This argument goes round and round and round to the point of absolute boredom. why do we make claims about something where we have no proof?

all these statements for and against creation cannot be substantiated at this time, but perhaps the truth will be known at a later time. what we can do is make observations and arguments based upon our own senses. we can observe physical phenomenae, math, evolution, life, performance of the universe and reality to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the universe was created ( this would have to be an intelligent creation ) or just somehow appeared or was always here. in my own opinion, which i have stated on numerous posts, there was intelligent creation. there is just too much evidence in favor of this view, while the ONLY statement the anti-creationists can muster is " you can't prove it ". if anyone posting can offer a few good reasons against intelligent creation other than ( you can't prove it), i would like to see them. i have issued this challenge many times, so far no one has come up with anything.

[InfiniteNow]

if anyone posting can offer a few good reasons against intelligent creation other than ( you can't prove it), i would like to see them. i have issued this challenge many times, so far no one has come up with anything.

 

Well, here's one.

 

Those who tend to argue in it's favor and who believe it are often blindly following someone else's idea and fail to approach the world with open eyes. I was going to be mean and describe the qualities I detest in so many (not all) religious people, but that's counter productive.

 

It's not just you can't prove it, but also that I don't care to be associated with the group composed of those who think it's true. There are too many other negative characteristics and traits they exhibit.

[questor]

Infinite, i looked twice at your post but saw no reason or observations against intelligent design. this is the usual situation, you have indicated you don't like people who believe in it, but you offer no evidence or proof against it. i think you have confused religious fanatics with some who see other evidences of intelligent creation but are not Bible thumpers. my challenge still stands.

[InfiniteNow]

I have offered proof. I've proved that I don't believe in it, and also briefly described why. I never had any motivation to prove that ID is not true, only to answer your question:

 

while the ONLY statement the anti-creationists can muster is " you can't prove it ". if anyone posting can offer a few good reasons against intelligent creation other than ( you can't prove it), i would like to see them.

 

Or, is perhaps your addition of the word "good" in front of "reasons" your way of leaving the door open so you can disagree with whatever is counter to your vision of a creator being the only truth?

[InfiniteNow]

i think you have confused religious fanatics with some who see other evidences of intelligent creation but are not Bible thumpers. my challenge still stands.

 

Further, you are contradicting yourself. A few posts above, you remind the reader that nobody can offer proof of a creator, then here you state that there are those who "see other evidences of intelligent creation." If there is no proof, and these people "see evidence," then...

 

 

never mind.