Open-Source has a TV-Show

[alexander]

Yes, thats right, Open-source has a show on TV now, called Go-Open (http://www.go-opensource.org/ if you are interested)

Go Open Source campaign projects are aimed at creating awareness, educating and providing access to open source software. It is important, once awareness of OSS has been created, that interested parties have the ability to gain access to the software and services, and that they have access to additional resources for support and training. Current projects that are on the go include:

 

 

• Ongoing media and PR campaign: So far, this has seen advertisements, radio and TV interviews, as well as numerous articles in IT publications. There is a lot more to come in this space...
  
• Go Open Source website: The website has already seen a number of revisions. The original launch website has now been replaced by the current one. The website not only acts as a communications medium for the campaign, but is expected to grow into an open source portal and resource repository. Through the website, we would like to inform, educate and provide access to many relevant OSS resources. Please do not hesitate to provide feedback regarding the website, and how we can improve it to meet your needs.
  
• OpenCD distribution: The OpenCD project aims to introduce MS Windows users to open source software. Showcasing high-quality OSS useful across a wide range of users (such as Office productivity software), the OpenCD not only introduces users to the advantages of OSS, but also to the OSS paradigm: users are encouraged to copy and redistribute the software to others. Currently, the campaign is posting any interested parties a copy of the OpenCD, free of charge. Click here for more information about this project.
  

Information on new projects, as well as updates on existing projects will be published frequently on this website.

you can bittorrent the series, all 13 episodes, they include interviews with all major people involved in the Open-Source (Linus, Stallman, Lessig, Maddog, Perens...) Its sponsored by Mark Shuttleworth's foundation, the founder of Ubuntu.

 

 

Oh, I'm soooo getting a copy as soon as i can!

 

 

[skuinders]

Nice, I'm going to give it a watch.

[alexander]

let me tell you this much, its a fun little show for both linux people and people who's response to open-source is "I've never heard of it", and although its more centric towards the second, it gives us, the linux people things to think about too, as well as nice projets to watch out for :)

[geokker]

Looking at their site, I didn't notice any case studies, cost analyses or specific advantages to open source software (I didn't plough through it forensicly however). For the 'Windows user' which they mentioned as a specific target for their campaign, it's hard to see what the attraction is. Off the top of my head, I can think of these downsides:

 

1. Retraining. There is quite a jump from the Windows environment to anything else for average users.

2. Less featured, less user friendly, less documented, less mature applications. A perfect example is the seemingly reverse-engineered Sun OpenOffice tractor which I despair of every time I'm forced to use it because someone sent me an Excel file etc.

3. Poor hardware support. I have tweaked my Linux Nvidia drivers to within an inch of their lives and peformance still doesn't touch Windows XP (which was bad anyway).

 

Personally, while a long time advocate of open source (which I exclusively use) I think raising awareness is a good thing, but it's important to get realistic - everyone wants to be Microsoft - we live in a market economy, so it's simply the way to play. If people go away supporting the idea of non-proprietary open standards, that'll be an achievement. Have you tried opening a winmail.dat on Unix?

[nkt]

A perfect example is the seemingly reverse-engineered Sun OpenOffice tractor which I despair of every time I'm forced to use it because someone sent me an Excel file etc.

What version/hardware are you using? My PC takes under 7 seconds for the open dialogue and under ten to open the file in 1.9.100. I know it is a bit slower on Linux, but how slow?

 

It has to be big and slow, though, since it has to have pretty much every last feature that Office has.

 

As for the shows, I don't have TV, so...

The torrents are http://www.go-opensource.org/files/go-open-vol-1.torrent (episodes 1 to 6) and http://www.go-opensource.org/files/go-open-vol-2.torrent (7 - 13)

[alexander]

1. Retraining. There is quite a jump from the Windows environment to anything else for average users.

2. Less featured, less user friendly, less documented, less mature applications. A perfect example is the seemingly reverse-engineered Sun OpenOffice tractor which I despair of every time I'm forced to use it because someone sent me an Excel file etc.

3. Poor hardware support. I have tweaked my Linux Nvidia drivers to within an inch of their lives and peformance still doesn't touch Windows XP (which was bad anyway).

Sooo incredibly mistaken, soooo incredibly wrong, sooooo incredibly false, soooo incredibly accusing, sooooo incrediby dissing the better.

 

1. Retraining. There is quite a jump from the Windows environment to anything else for average users.

That is the least ignorant thing you have said in the entire post, however Linux learning curve, even for average users is waay steeper then other operating systems; the design of Linux GUIs is made to be more user friendly and actually to make sense, location and naming of folders, the entire linux system itself generally makes 1000 times more sense then Windows. Dont beleive me? Please, I'd like to hear your take on the concept of registry... Besides, I've switched plenty of "average" users to Linux to know that this accusation is false. I've converted my manager at work to Ubuntu, took him about 2 days to be able to do anything that he would generally do on his system, and be completely comfortable, oh and no i did not show him how to use anything, i just recommended the distro. Not bad for a person who has not used anything but windows before, ei? My friend took about a week, but in that time he has learned how to do more stuff in Linux then he could do with windows period. Thats another thing, you can do so much more stuff with the Linux, things that you dont realize you could do with windows, and things that most people dont do with OS X, but are otherwise possible there as well.

 

Less featured, less user friendly, less documented, less mature applications. A perfect example is the seemingly reverse-engineered Sun OpenOffice tractor which I despair of every time I'm forced to use it because someone sent me an Excel file etc.

First of all, Microsoft stole every single idea that you so easily assign to them, second of all Excell is a closed-source proprietary application, their formatting will never get realeased by Microsoft, and for reverse-engeneering, OpenOffice is a perfect example of how an open-source community can come together and provide an alternative a perfectly good office applicarion and make it available free to anyone who wants to use it.

User friendliness was not at the core of Linux as an OS, but companies like Ubuntu and before that Mandrake, made the install a breeze. Big interfaces like KDE and Gnome make the OS really easy to use, and the beauty is in the fact that those interfaces are engineered to actually make sense to any human.

Less mature applications is also a false accusation, there are more products with more support for linux then there ever will be for windows. There are more applications for linux then you can imagine, because there are millions of programmers who contribute to open-source.

Not well documented, you must be confusing the OS there buddy, aside from documentation of every program and every possible argument and thing you can do with it in the man pages, there is documentation on every project's website, as well as 24/7 support where you get to talk to the developers, not people at the help desk that barely know what a computer is, and if you need a patch, one will be written for you asap only to be released in a few hours to the remainder of people, unlike with any piece of proprietary software, where they are looking for a certain amount of requests before they even consider fixing anything. Infact Linux has the most advanced flight simulator that actually simulates how the plane flies by for example looking at the shape of the plane and simulating how air flows over the plane, unlike microsoft flight simulator, if you read about it, sound like a toy, lol...

 

3. Poor hardware support. I have tweaked my Linux Nvidia drivers to within an inch of their lives and peformance still doesn't touch Windows XP

And you are claiming that it is the operating systems fault? Thats great, you made me laugh, FYI there is more support for hardware in Linux then there is for Windows, because of generic drivers that are otherwise not there in Windows, so if there was a new network card released, chances are that Linux will be able to use it right away, unlike windows people that gotta wait for the right and working driver to be written. Your Nvidia problems are your fault, my friend gets about 5600 FPS, just compare, in Quake 3 in Windows he gets 400FPS , under Linux, the same graphics setting, same card and everything, over 1000 (FPS counter maxes out at 1000). Another thing is that thoose Nvidia drivers are generic, if Nvidia was to actually write a driver for Linux for their graphics cards and noone would have to reverse engineer it, rest asure that those cards will perform better then they do in windows.

[geokker]

Sooo incredibly mistaken, soooo incredibly wrong, sooooo incredibly false, soooo incredibly accusing, sooooo incrediby dissing the better.

 

Why are you being so hostile? Let's discuss our differences of opinion without pettiness. Also, my comments were on the whole, positive. I feel like I would've been vaporized by a laser from space if I were anti-open source! Also, heavily biased comments like "..generally makes 1000 times more sense then Windows." are unhelpful.

 

I have used Linux/unix variants since before there were usable GUI's. Unlike all the Linux users I know, I exclusively use it - I do not have a crafty dual-booter in the backroom or a Mac lappy. When I speak of user friendliness, I am speaking from the point of view of an average Windows/Office user - so things like command line instructions are out of the question.

 

My point about retraining is fair - training is a considerable headache and it is necessary for the large jump from Windows GUI and apps to a Linux-based GUI and apps.

 

My second, compound point is mostly from my own experience. OpenOffice is a very sophisticated suite of products and is the obvious analogue to Microsoft Office. Original derivations aside, it is not as feature rich - it just isn't. Many office workers who exclusively use MS Office (i.e. most of them) are serious power users. The ones I've spoken to especially Excel and Access users simply cannot live with OpenOffice and equivalents. Of course Linux apps are less mature than Windows ones. How long has Office been developed for? Please remember, Word is the standard for Word processing. This is not necessarily a good thing - but it is the standard.

 

Less mature applications is also a false accusation, there are more products with more support for linux then there ever will be for windows. There are more applications for linux then you can imagine, because there are millions of programmers who contribute to open-source.

 

How many Microsoft developers do you think there are? A handful?

 

I find the latest version of Gnome extremely user-friendly but will admit to weird, frustrating areas like the difficulty reordering the main menu e.g. having to install Smeg to get any sort of usability, the nightmare of syncing Palm devices, the slowness of screen rendering etc.

 

Your point about the Windows registry - what's wrong with it? Linux has a configuration database for all the apps, I even have a GUI for it.

 

I have used loads of Linux applications which are virtually undocumented, then I had to trawl the internet to find support. I agree however that where there is documentation it is good. My only general criticism of man pages is that there never seems to be enough examples forcing me to strain my brain parsing the switches.

 

Please point me in the direction of the MS Flight Simulator beater.

 

if you read about it, sound like a toy, lol...

 

Did you really find this funny?

 

And you are claiming that it is the operating systems fault?

 

No, I'm not claiming that. Manufacturers don't write drivers for Linux because the perceived market share is so small.

Your Nvidia problems are your fault

 

Are they? Why? As far as I can tell, the xorg.conf is perfectly configured. Wifi cards on Linux - nightmare. SATA controllers with Software RAID - nightmare. Average users configuring these things? Not without a lot of pain. Wifi is standard on new laptops, Unless it's automagically detected during installation, configuring them is pure pain on Linux.

 

So in conclusion, I think you are needlessly angry and offended. If you are not angry and offended, your general tone cultivates the impression. I generally enjoy using Linux and the available apps. I don't think it's necessarily better than other OS's however, and I'm the first to 'Jesus Christ! How hard is this!' when faced with something that would be simple on OSX. I am always stunned at the brilliance of The Gimp in the face of Photoshop and the speed of Inkscape versus the awesome Illustrator.

 

For me adherence to 'open standards' is more important that open source. If Word spat out proper XML, then other programs wouldn't have such difficulty opening them accurately. I don't have a problem with locking up code per se, but acknowledge the tendency to hold back innovation of in a position to e.g. Microsoft and the tendency for innovation to blossom if the code is open and subject to peer review e.g. reputations at stake.

 

Also, let's not forget cost. Everything installed on my computer is free. The proprietary analogues would start at £250 (Windows XP) and spiral quickly towards Jupiter with Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, 3D Studio etc. etc.

[nkt]

That's a good response, and I have to agree with large parts of it. I was switched to Linux for a while, but now I use XP, as does my other half, who used Redhat/98 dualboot for about two years, before we bought a copy of XP for her.

 

Linux (aside from Knoppix) just doesn't detect the hardware nicely, doesn't help out much while installing, and, once installed, you are often just left to get on with it. Even something as simple as changing the screen resolution can be a nightmare - we had a weird issue with the root GUI being switched into a res that was too high for the monitor, but the other two accounts were fine. It took an age to solve.

 

USB support, LAN cards, etc. are better supported than XP, which was great, but then the drivers were not helpful when it came to changing a small thing, sometimes, because there were six different GUI programs to help you, but only one had the switch that you needed.

 

3D support was weird - even when we thought the card was working, firing up TuxRacer got us a frame or two every three seconds. Much tweaking later and we got it working, but nothing told us it wasn't perfect to start with! And on an nVidea card? One of the most common cards today?

 

The final nail was actually just that some stuff didn't work hardware wise, and some of the software just didn't work, yet could we recompile or upgrade the system? Of course not. Something always failed. Always with the same sets of cryptic error messages. Getting anything out of the RPM system was a nightmare, even with two very computer literate IT experts trying. Eventually, I determined that the system was convinced it had no compiler installed. So then we were stuck in a catch 22 - we can't compile the compiler.

 

Of course, every one of these things could be solved with a cryptic keystroke or two, but we had to use another machine to get online and actually find the answers. And once this has happened a dozen times, you start to think XP isn't that bad. We tried Redhat and Fedora 1 & 3, Mandrake, Knoppix, and others.

 

That brings up another question: How does the average beginner know which code base to download? Which of the hundreds of Linux threads is the right one for them? And what about BSD? OpenBSD or FreeBSD? Argh! BeOS? I've heard of it, but I have no idea if it is even based on the Linux kernel...

 

I'm tempted by Lindows, but also by the Mac OSX, which is obviously more expensive, but the Mac is so nice, now, but you can still drop back to a CLI and *do* stuff that is otherwise impossible.

 

If Mac shifts to Intel, OSX may well be my next desktop.

[geokker]

I've tried many Linux flavours and am now very comfortable with Ubuntu. Despite having to ditch my SiI RAID controller, everything was reasonably straightforward to configure - although quite a lot of time for tweakery e.g. switching off the onboard sound in the bios to make my soundblaster work for Skype.

 

I'm also tempted by OSX and have looked at the Minimac with more than a little interest. In reality though, I have a reasonably quick, stable computing environment and I don't suffer from spyware/adware hell so I have no real reason to change.

 

I must say, it's also I nice feeling that I use free, open source applications exclusively, and there's no temptation to waste money on apps/games I don't need.

[C1ay]

To be clear though open source does not mean a particular OS like Linux or a particular office suite. It simply means that the source code is open. It's a development philosophy, not a product or set of products. FreeBSD and DrDOS are open source OSes so it doesn't mean less documented, less secure or less mature, just open. C is open source and it is probably the most mature programming language there is and no one can say anything negative about the documentation on C. Just thought I'd add a little apples vs apples comparison.

[geokker]

I think people confuse Linux, open source and open standards in addition to confusing the GUI with the OS. I don't have a problem with companies producing closed-code or proprietary products but it annoys me when they change or dodge open standards needlessly e.g. Microsoft changing XML and implementing a proprietary version of svg (Longhorn).

[nkt]

I've tried many Linux flavours and am now very comfortable with Ubuntu.

I've heard some good things about it. However, at the moment, and prompted by this thread, I'm downloading Slackware 10.1 to go on the server.

 

C1ay, you are right. We should also mention, for those who don't know, things like bind, sendmail, and the many other free applications that keep the internet world running.

[alexander]

Why are you being so hostile? Let's discuss our differences of opinion without pettiness. Also, my comments were on the whole, positive. I feel like I would've been vaporized by a laser from space if I were anti-open source! Also, heavily biased comments like "..generally makes 1000 times more sense then Windows." are unhelpful.

I am not, i just overstated my point, no offense meant, if i did offend anyone, then I'm sorry, oh and lets discuss our differences of oppinion, thats what we are here for :hihi:

I have used Linux/unix variants since before there were usable GUI's. Unlike all the Linux users I know, I exclusively use it - I do not have a crafty dual-booter in the backroom or a Mac lappy. When I speak of user friendliness, I am speaking from the point of view of an average Windows/Office user - so things like command line instructions are out of the question.

sorry, i just had to comment on this, you are a Linux user that has been using linux since before there was a usable gui (so i assume somewhere around 96 to 97) and you are speaking from a point of view of an average user, ok...

Oh and i dont have a crafty dual booter either, and i havent used windows unless i've had to fix something for almost a year, I run stage 1 Gentoo on my machines, as for GUI, I run my own custom breed of the Crystal FVWM theme, its a lot like Fluxbox that I used to run, but I've added some flashy, cool features (that i rarely use, but once in a while when i'm working and someone just happens to look at my screen and notice the absence of maximize button for example and instead see me click on my 4 in one button to maximize one window horizontally on one screen and close something on another, or the minimize thing that takes a snapshot of a window, and makes a little transparent icon at the bottom of the screen, and the one that gets the best response is when they see the background switch to another one), and its just as light as Fluxbox, so, as for the Mac which i got for free a month and a half ago, which runs OS X 10.4, to play around with it basically, I've built OpenBSD routers, I ran a FreeBSD server, but never had any experience with OS X, and ofcourse i could have set the mac up with a Gentoo install as well, but the only way I could put OS X on my resume is if i ran it for a while, so here i am.

Oh and those comments are really not as biased as you clame them to be, Linux does make more sense then windows does, for example why do you have to buy a copy of windows before you can read its lisence agreement when Open-Source lisence is openly available to read Online? Why are there hidden folders that you cant access unless you try to open them i through run or some files that you have to boot into like FreeDOS or Knoppix or something to even see? (for example you can not see the . directory in system32, yet by typing it in to run "Drive:Windowssystem32." you see that it is there and there is a large amount of programs (which mirror system32 folder) that you can not see/access even if you have show hidden files/folders turned on? What is microsoft hiding? Why can you not uninstall any program you want to? why do you have to reserve to programs like XPLite to uninstall IE? Why does microsoft stride to make their OS incompattible with others?

As to the registry, why does an operating system solely depend on a database that is designed to secretly store secret application information, as well as core system information in a way that even advanced users have hard time figuring out and manipulating. Also there is a huge difference between the config files and registry, if you screw something up in the application config file, you app will tell you that there is an error in a heavily commented config file on line such and such, with registry, your application gives off a random error and you need to reinstall the application in order to try to fix it, and that may not help either. My biggest problem with the secretibe, information-hiding, dicombobulating registry is, and i have already stated it above, why in the world, and you state it yourself, that registry's primary function is to store application information, is the entire OS based on it, and why if there is a mistake in the registry, not all the mistakes do it but many do, does your operating system not start or crasy randomly? Now, and you know this, if there is a problem in a config file in Linux, the system will start, even though an application might not, even a serious system app like udev or something will not bring the system down, and even system config files may get screwed up if you run as root all the time, which noone should EVER do, the system is still fixable 99.9% of the time (infact in Gentoo, you can even accidently delete a system config file, you can go back a version in a matter of a pretty short command), because its easy to edit a well commented config file then it is to do anything with registry.

My point about retraining is fair - training is a considerable headache and it is necessary for the large jump from Windows GUI and apps to a Linux-based GUI and apps.

If you are talking about corporate environment, I agree 100%, but the investment is well-worth it, while in order to switch, the all and all cost migght even be a bit higher then switching to the next version of windows, the switch starts paying off really soon, on average saving about 2/3 of the total IT budget a year (since before the upgrade). If you are talking individual users, it takes a little commitment to, at least save a some money (lets see thats $200 for windows(Pro) plus $500 for Office(Pro), so about $700 bucks an upgrade (and using home is just not reasonable, even for "average" users, it's quite a downgrade), but wait there is more, $60 bucks fo the Norton Internet security package (I think it costs $40 to upgrade), you'll need some package for image manipulation, thats another $100, so its really looking like $800-$850 right there), but really, learn a better way.

The ones I've spoken to especially Excel and Access users simply cannot live with OpenOffice and equivalents.

There is an access equivalent in OpenOffice? wow, i didnt think there was, way to go OpenOffice. Oh and I agree that they are not as featureful as the Application package that they are modeled after, especially people that use access because they dont want to learn how to use any real database such as SQL (any flavor is fine, I use MySQL a lot, but been thinking of converting to Posgres, which allows you to store procedures as well as data, but MySQL is promising that their next version which is already at beta, making it just as good, well actually, better then MSSQL (its faster)...)

 

How many Microsoft developers do you think there are?

I'd say its pretty even there, although windows developers dont tend to write code unless they get paid for it, there are at least 2-4 million linux developers that spend their time on solely working on Linux application, but there are millions others who dont develop actively, but more write programs that suit some kind of a need that they have, they also write some patches to some already existant program, that tend to either add features or remove stupid things that the original programmers added in (such as release of the kernel information in naim), those would include myself and some of my friends.

 

Please point me in the direction of the MS Flight Simulator beater.

You thought I was bluffing? Flight Gear (http://www.flightgear.com), just check out the features, you can actually fly a shuttle out to space and then perform a reentry and land the thing, and since the model takes such a vast amount of factors in consideration, you can actually feel hitting the upper parts of the atmosphere as the shuttle bounces up. Oh and Flight Gear is FAA approved. P.S. if you are going to try it out, make sure you read the documentation as it is dfficult to just figure things out as you go along, since there are so many controls and things to deal with, oh and you will be better off with a joystick, playing with a mouse can be a pain.

 

Wifi cards on Linux - nightmare.

if you just need it to work and are not going to be using software like kismet, why dont you just use the NDIS wrapper and use the windows wifi driver for your card, simple, quick, easy, almost hassle free...

 

I think you are needlessly angry and offended

not angry but offended, perhaps by the wording, more then anything else

 

SATA controllers with Software RAID

i thought you were talking general users? where does the software RAID come in again? If you need to use software RAID you are well above the average user, and should know that howtos are available on the net (http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Gentoo_Install_on_Software_RAID , http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Software-RAID-HOWTO.html)

 

I was switched to Linux for a while, but now I use XP, as does my other half, who used Redhat/98 dualboot for about two years, before we bought a copy of XP for her.

Nobody, I repeat, nobody should never, ever use RedHat or any of its derivatives unless they are forced to, it is among the most horrible distros ever made, you are literally better off with XP then a general install of RedHat, I dont blame you both for switching...

 

Linux (aside from Knoppix) just doesn't detect the hardware nicely, doesn't help out much while installing, and, once installed, you are often just left to get on with it. Even something as simple as changing the screen resolution can be a nightmare - we had a weird issue with the root GUI being switched into a res that was too high for the monitor, but the other two accounts were fine. It took an age to solve.

<caugh> RedHat </caught>

Hey, other distros have no problem with hardware detection either, take Ubuntu, both the live CD and the installation or Gentoo Live disk for example (well, I guess i could argue the Gentoo installation as well, but since its a hands on thing with no installer, you tend to detect the hardware via lspci before compiling the your own kernel, but you could use genkernel, horrible thing that makes your kernel look like any Installer installed distro kernel, ugh what a thought...), Suse does pretty good job too.

 

Much tweaking later and we got it working, but nothing told us it wasn't perfect to start with! And on an nVidea card?

What about glxgears? the frame rate there is a perfect indicator of how well the 3D acceleration of your card is working or not working.

 

Which of the hundreds of Linux threads is the right one for them?

The most appropriate answer to this day is "The one that your neighbour or friend is running" ofcourse that might not be the case, so I split Linux distros in to 3 categories:

Ones I wouldnt use unless there is no way out: RedHat and all its derivatives (ex: Fedora), Debian, Mandrake and most of its derivatives

User-Friendly and I will recomend to beginner users: Ubuntu, Suse, Gentoo (stage 3)

Power User or ones i would and do use: Gentoo (stage 1), Slackware, SELinux

 

Oh and for most beginner users or users looking for hassle free distros, first choice: Ubuntu, second Suse, and if the user is looking to learn Linux by giving it a lot of time and figuring out how it works and everything, Gentoo stage 3

 

And what about BSD? OpenBSD or FreeBSD?

depends on what you are looking to do, OpenBSD is basically made for routing needs, very much security oriented it is not as fast as FreeBSD, but has numerous features that are not present in most other OSes, OpenBSD is working on a package that will allow you to have the ability to do crazy things that linksys routers can do, but for free, such as load ballancing with stateful packet filtering and nasty logging and alerting, so logically that takes up resources that are otherwise not taken by FreeBSD. But if you need a webserver or a BSD machine to run at home for your own leasure FreeBSD is faster a little more efficient and is more suited for those purposes.

 

but also by the Mac OSX, which is obviously more expensive

Mac OS X 10.4.2 $129 single user licese (apple's website) , Windows XP Home SP2 $190 ( http://www.google.com/froogle?q=Microsoft+Windows+XP&btnG=Search+Froogle)

Windows seems obviously more expensive to me, but i may be wrong...

 

If Mac shifts to Intel, OSX may well be my next desktop.

I'd give Ubuntu a try before you do that, its quite cool and unique in its own ways, even just run the live cd for a while, or setup a dualboot, all the same, i think you'll enjoy it.

 

To be clear though open source does not mean a particular OS like Linux

No, open-source definately does not imply any operating system, however i felt like naming most of the open-source ones, so:

Linux, SunOS, Solaris, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, DragonflyBSD, NetBSD, GNU-Hurd, SSS-PC, ReactOS and FreeDOS.

 

C1ay, you are right. We should also mention, for those who don't know, things like bind, sendmail, and the many other free applications that keep the internet world running.

yup, basically if you look at ther progression and development chart for Internet and Linux, you will find the curves extremely similar from the time that Apache was developed, they go hand in hand...

sendmail is the craziest program in the world in terms of configuration...

[alexander]

another super awesome simulator that has a little better graphics then flight grear is Xplane (check it out at www.x-plane.org)

[nkt]

<lots snipped!>

Nobody, I repeat, nobody should never, ever use RedHat or any of its derivatives unless they are forced to, it is among the most horrible distros ever made, you are literally better off with XP then a general install of RedHat, I dont blame you both for switching...

:-)

<caugh> RedHat </caught>

Hey, other distros have no problem with hardware detection either, take Ubuntu, both the live CD and the installation or Gentoo Live disk for example (well, I guess i could argue the Gentoo installation as well, but since its a hands on thing with no installer, you tend to detect the hardware via lspci before compiling the your own kernel, but you could use genkernel, horrible thing that makes your kernel look like any Installer installed distro kernel, ugh what a thought...), Suse does pretty good job too.

Well, I'm downloding the DVD torrent right now, so it had better be worth it! ;-)

What about glxgears? the frame rate there is a perfect indicator of how well the 3D acceleration of your card is working or not working.

I was trying TuxRacer as the test, as it was the first 3D app I found. I got it in the end, but it was a struggle...

The most appropriate answer to this day is "The one that your neighbour or friend is running" ofcourse that might not be the case, so I split Linux distros in to 3 categories:

Ones I wouldnt use unless there is no way out: RedHat and all its derivatives (ex: Fedora), Debian, Mandrake and most of its derivatives

User-Friendly and I will recomend to beginner users: Ubuntu, Suse, Gentoo (stage 3)

Power User or ones i would and do use: Gentoo (stage 1), Slackware, SELinux

 

Oh and for most beginner users or users looking for hassle free distros, first choice: Ubuntu, second Suse, and if the user is looking to learn Linux by giving it a lot of time and figuring out how it works and everything, Gentoo stage 3

Like I say, Ubuntu is coming down now.

 

<snipped a useful desc. of other Free OSes>

Mac OS X 10.4.2 $129 single user licese (apple's website) , Windows XP Home SP2 $190 ( http://www.google.com/froogle?q=Microsoft+Windows+XP&btnG=Search+Froogle)

Windows seems obviously more expensive to me, but i may be wrong...

And Ubuntu is £0, and seems obviously less expensive to me, but i may be wrong... I was meaning c.f. Linux, not Windows!

I'd give Ubuntu a try before you do that, its quite cool and unique in its own ways, even just run the live cd for a while, or setup a dualboot, all the same, i think you'll enjoy it.

I will, of course, let you all know how I get on.

 

sendmail is the craziest program in the world in terms of configuration...

But that flexibility and power means pretty much every server on the internet runs it, as well as a lot of home users. I know I want a local mailserver for my LAN.

[alexander]

But that flexibility and power means pretty much every server on the internet runs it, as well as a lot of home users. I know I want a local mailserver for my LAN.

Not every server runs sendmail, but mail servers do. I think that Apache would be a better example.

I claim sendmail to be the craziest program ever made because of this:

Installing it is just as easy as any other program, however it is the configuration that make it so crazy. There are 2 config files in sendmail, one is a simple config file, its easy to use and gives you almost 0 control, so after the setup is done, your server is really insecure. But there is another config file that the first config file gets parsed into, and that is written by an nuclear physicist gone crazy and on drugs, that has control of everything in sendmail and can make it super secure, but even a 700 page book can not go through everything in there...

[nkt]

Not every server runs sendmail, but mail servers do. I think that Apache would be a better example.

But most mail servers don't run Apache... :-Þ

 

Seriously, though, I couldn't remember off the top of my head if Apache was Open or not. (One of the "Big Three" - Apache, MySQL, PHP - is slightly less free, IIRC) Of course it is, and it has over 50% of the internet running on it.

 

PHP has been scanned as running 21,466,638 Domains on 1,293,874 IP Addresses!