JMJones0424 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) We all ship our milk to a processor who gets milk from a whole lot of farms over a huge area, so that while each farm might have unique milk that might have unique value that could be marketed in a niche market, it all gets blended together and it's just milk. We are missing out on the opportunity to sell to our neighbors, most of whom have no idea how their food is produced. We have to sell the story of our farm and not just our milk to capitalize on that market. The idea does appeal to me, and I recently gave that advice to a young person who wants to farm. We would have no need of gmo crops or government subsidies if we could sell directly to the consumer.I find your response funny, in a way, as I spent the formative years of my life on a dairy farm that produced milk for a regional ice cream company. I have not found anything in your response that would lead me to conclude that I or any other milk producer that I am aware of should be afraid of GMOs. Do you mean to argue that cows that ingest GMO grain produce milk that is different than cows that don't? It's clear that you seem to believe that there exists a local market for non-GMO milk in your area. What you haven't yet provided is how economical you assume this market is, why GMO feed is even a factor in this market, and if it is so important, why you haven't already captured that market niche. I admit I am not current on all the various bovine feeds available, but I don't know of any situation where the existence or absence of GMO feed in dairy production would even be an issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. EDIT: I can imagine a situation where non-GMO milk, whatever that means, enables one to enter a marketplace that is different than the vast majority of other milk producers. However, this seems to me to be a market aberration reliant upon the very same FUD that I have argued against previously. It is my observation that the vast majority of milk consumers don't give a flying brick about either the condition of the cows that produce the milk or the feed that led to the milk. Edited March 9, 2017 by JMJones0424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine farmer Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I find your response funny, in a way, as I spent the formative years of my life on a dairy farm that produced milk for a regional ice cream company. I have not found anything in your response that would lead me to conclude that I or any other milk producer that I am aware of should be afraid of GMOs. Do you mean to argue that cows that ingest GMO grain produce milk that is different than cows that don't? It's clear that you seem to believe that there exists a local market for non-GMO milk in your area. What you haven't yet provided is how economical you assume this market is, why GMO feed is even a factor in this market, and if it is so important, why you haven't already captured that market niche. I admit I am not current on all the various bovine feeds available, but I don't know of any situation where the existence or absence of GMO feed in dairy production would even be an issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. EDIT: I can imagine a situation where non-GMO milk, whatever that means, enables one to enter a marketplace that is different than the vast majority of other milk producers. However, this seems to me to be a market aberration reliant upon the very same FUD that I have argued against previously. It is my observation that the vast majority of milk consumers don't give a flying brick about either the condition of the cows that produce the milk or the feed that led to the milk.No, I do not make claims as to the effects of gmo feed on milk, but I am aware that cows milk tastes different when they are on pasture, and that some consumers, ( particularly ones with money) would buy local milk if given the opportunity. Currently our milk is regularly shipped 300 miles to a processing plant to be bottled, and then back to the local stores, and all those people have to make a profit between us and the consumer, leaving us with a small fraction of the consumer dollars. If we were getting paid what the consumer pays, we could survive producing less milk, and could keep lower producing breeds of cattle that don't even need grain in their ration of any sort. Why should I, as a farmer, keep increasing production while lowering my profit margin down closer and closer to zero? JMJones0424 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) "Why should I, as a farmer, keep increasing production while lowering my profit margin down closer and closer to zero?" You shouldn't. I neglected to reveal the fact that the dairy I worked for while in High School eventually went bankrupt. You are producing an elastic product. If you can not distinguish your product from the competition, those others that also feed in to the milk truck that comes by daily, then you are forced to deal with the economic whims that your marketplace faces. I do not envy your position. However, this has nothing to do with GMO. I'm sorry to beat on that dead horse, but that is the topic of this thread. If you wish to open a new thread about the precariousness of food producers due to the fact that they produce an elastic product, I would be happy to respond with my personal observations. EDIT: 300 miles! I should be so lucky. Based on this claim alone I feel confident in making the assertion that you are not in the American southwest, Edited March 9, 2017 by JMJones0424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine farmer Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 "Why should I, as a farmer, keep increasing production while lowering my profit margin down closer and closer to zero?" You shouldn't. I neglected to reveal the fact that the dairy I worked for while in High School eventually went bankrupt. You are producing an elastic product. If you can not distinguish your product from the competition, those others that also feed in to the milk truck that comes by daily, then you are forced to deal with the economic whims that your marketplace faces. I do not envy your position. However, this has nothing to do with GMO. I'm sorry to beat on that dead horse, but that is the topic of this thread. If you wish to open a new thread about the precariousness of food producers due to the fact that they produce an elastic product, I would be happy to respond with my personal observations. EDIT: 300 miles! I should be so lucky. Based on this claim alone I feel confident in making the assertion that you are not in the American southwest,I agree, we have gotten off on a tangent, and you are correct that I am not in the American southwest . The elasticity of our product only relates to gmo only in that we have not option but to buy gmo grain, and because claims are being made in the marketplace about that having a possible effect on milk . I started this post to find out what people with a scientific leaning think about the topic largely because there is so much media hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 What has been forgotten here is that GMO's have now got pesticides and/or herbicides in the genetics of the seeds . THAT is disturbing to say the least . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 What I have not forgotten is that your claim, current, that "GMO's have now got pesticides and/or herbicides in the genetics of the seeds ." is absolutely false. You are either completely misinformed or willfully lying. The idiocy of your response is precisely why I find it necessary to engage in rational discussions with others that aren't as moronic as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 I agree, we have gotten off on a tangent, and you are correct that I am not in the American southwest . The elasticity of our product only relates to gmo only in that we have not option but to buy gmo grain, and because claims are being made in the marketplace about that having a possible effect on milk . I started this post to find out what people with a scientific leaning think about the topic largely because there is so much media hype. Unfortunately, there are few here with the scientific background to actually answer your questions. I am certainly not capable of doing so. All I'd ask you to do is to remember that while boogeymen are an easy target, if there is no reasonable argument against it, then we shouldn't assume that any poorly understood thing is the source of our problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 What I have not forgotten is that your claim, current, that "GMO's have now got pesticides and/or herbicides in the genetics of the seeds ." is absolutely false. You are either completely misinformed or willfully lying. The idiocy of your response is precisely why I find it necessary to engage in rational discussions with others that aren't as moronic as you.Really so you have no idea that genetics of GMO's have no roundup in their genetics surprised . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Read http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/roundup-ready-crops/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Really so you have no idea that genetics of GMO's have no roundup in their genetics surprised .WTF do you mean? Take a breathe, relax, and try to make your claim.If I were to be charitable, I think you meant to claim something along the lines of GMOs having roundup expressed in their genes. You should know that not only is this laughably false, as this isn't at all how Round-up ready strains are developed, but that even if you were correct, this wouldn't at all provide evidence one way or the other that GMOs are something to be feared. It is abundantly clear that you haven't a clue what you are talking about. My problem is that you appear to me to be so far gone that I don't know where to begin to try to correct your misunderstandings. Do you know what it is that we are referring to when we talk about a GMO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 https://gmo-awareness.com/resources/glyphosate/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 You have yet to answer my question, current. Do you know what we mean when we refer to a genetically modified organism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 WTF do you mean? Take a breathe, relax, and try to make your claim.If I were to be charitable, I think you meant to claim something along the lines of GMOs having roundup expressed in their genes. You should know that not only is this laughably false, as this isn't at all how Round-up ready strains are developed, but that even if you were correct, this wouldn't at all provide evidence one way or the other that GMOs are something to be feared. It is abundantly clear that you haven't a clue what you are talking about. My problem is that you appear to me to be so far gone that I don't know where to begin to try to correct your misunderstandings. Do you know what it is that we are referring to when we talk about a GMO?Geneticly modified organisms . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 OK, so we can agree what GMO means. Now, what do you suppose it means when an organism has been genetically modified to be resistant to glyphosate (commercially known as Round-up)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 OK, so we can agree what GMO means. Now, what do you suppose it means when an organism has been genetically modified to be resistant to glyphosate (commercially known as Round-up)? resistant to roundup ? you are confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJones0424 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 No, I am not sure that I am confused. However, I am not convinced that you are not confused. Do you understand what it means when we claim that an organism has been genetically modified to be resistant to glyophosate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 No, I am not sure that I am confused. However, I am not convinced that you are not confused. Do you understand what it means when we claim that an organism has been genetically modified to be resistant to glyophosate? glyophosate is roundup . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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